The posts here are really good and are keeping me very entertained. I never expected to get as many spirted replies. I must also say that I never intended for this thread to go the direction it did. My main reason for posting was that I thought it would have been a cool Idea to put Pluto in the game as a planet orbiting the Terran Alliances home solar system. Some people want Carriers, some want cloaking devices, some want an entire new system for tactical combat. All I wanted was a tiny planet in a single solar system. Nothing more.
With that said I would like to take the time to respond to some comments made within the thread.
| They called Pluto a planet because there was no official scientific definition of a planet. They simply called "planet" whatever was really big and orbiting the sun (and the sun alone. Those who say the moon should be a dwarf planet have to go back to school. Moon orbits earth 100%, it's no dual planets) |
The American Heritage Dictionary says......
plan·et (plnt)
n.
1. A nonluminous celestial body larger than an asteroid or comet, illuminated by light from a star, such as the sun, around which it revolves. In the solar system there are nine known planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.
2. One of the seven celestial bodies, Mercury, Venus, the moon, the sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, visible to the naked eye and thought by ancient astronomers to revolve in the heavens about a fixed Earth and among fixed stars.
3. One of the seven revolving astrological celestial bodies that in conjunction with the stars are believed to influence human affairs and personalities.
Notice how Pluto is part of the definition, as it probably is in most dictionaries, school books and other informational material. But wait...... it also says the moon is as well! Whoa! The comment that was made about the moon being a Dwarf Planet....
if you took the earth out of the picture the path that the moon follows around the sun would not change at all
the moons current orbit around the sun is perfect it does not move toward or away from the sun so lets reclassify it as a dwarf planet it is after all bigger than Pluto |
Is actually correct according to the dictionary. Also, reading carefully, the author clearly stated.....
| if you took the earth out of the picture |
As far as....
| Pluto is not one of the big 8, because its irregular shaped (not a perfect sphere), its not big enough and it is not in control of its orbit around the sun. |
According to the definition recently adopted by the International Astronomical Union (IAU), a planet is a celestial body that [1]:
(a) is in orbit around a star or stellar remnants;
(
has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape;
(c) is not massive enough to initiate thermonuclear fusion of deuterium in its core; and,
(d) has cleared the neighborhood around its orbit.
A dwarf planet is a category of celestial bodies in the solar system defined in a resolution passed by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) on August 24, 2006. The definition currently applies only to the Sun's solar system. It applies only to the English language, and terminology may differ in other languages.
The resolution describes a dwarf planet as an object that:
A: Is in orbit around the sun
B: Has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape.
C: Has not "cleared the neighborhood" around its orbit
D: Is not a satellite of a planet, or other nonstellar body
Notice how the definitions say the same things about orbit, shape, and Mass. They say nothing about not being in control of it's orbit, or that the orbit has to be in sync with the other orbits. Now if Pluto is considered a dwarf planet, which it is by the (IAU) the shape is identical to that of a Planet. Refer to the definitions above if this confuses you.
| For those who think that it's stupid to let a bunch of "moron scholars" choosing what is a planet and what's not, HEY! THOSE GUYS ARE ASTRONOMERS! You would not even know a THING about space, planets and all if they would not have worked their ass off in the past millenniums charting everything in our sky! THEY found celestial bodies, THEY name it, THEY classify it. I think they are the authority in the matter. What would you have liked, a world-wide vote about "Is Pluto a planet?". |
First, not all Astronomers agree on the points that were all talking about on this thread. Here are some passages I found to amplify my point.
* Some scientists think that Pluto really is a moon that escaped Neptune's gravitational pull.
* Charon is much bigger than any other moon in relation to the size of its host planet, further muddying Pluto's status. Some astronomers think of the setup as a double planet.
* "Pluto sized planets in distant near circular orbits are beyond the reach of current searches," said Lowell Observatory astronomer Bob Millis.
Everyone, even Astronomers, are subject to their opinions, whether they have all the facts or not. They are, after all, Human. Furthermore, just because your the lead singer in a band doesn't mean you can sing.
"Astronomers have invented a puzzling set of designations -- some straightforward, some creative, and some downright amusing -- to describe their findings. The result is a charming lexicon that unfortunately does not properly describe what's out there, according to some experts". said Senior Science writer Roy Britt of Science Tuesday.
| And for those who think that defining WHAT is a planet is pointless, I have to recall you that with globalization, every scientists in the world have to work on the same standards. They have established a lot of those (metric system jumps to mind, except for some United Staters who wanna stick with the Imperial system, for the reason that "it's always been like this"). They never established the "planet" standard until now, they had to, eventually. |
So, if they all work with the same standards...... Why do they not all agree? For the same reasons the United States sticks with our old, out dated Imperial system. Actually, we (Americans) use both. You can define anything you like with whatever words you so wish to choose, somebody, somewhere, will inevitably, create a new meaning and a new standard.
| However, the discovery of Pluto was an amazing crack of luck. Since there are, hypothetically (I think) about 20 other rocks of approximate size in the Oort cloud surrounding the solar system. |
The key word is "Hypothetically". No, proof, fact, or anything else. Just a theory, an opinion someone else has for one reason or another. Pluto is no where near the Oort cloud it is near the Kuiper Belt, and the Oort cloud does not surround the solar system.
Well past Sedna is another reservoir of material left over from the formation of the solar system, theorists believe. The Oort Cloud is a hypothesized sphere of frozen objects thought to start at about 10,000 AU and extend to 100,000 AU, or 1.5 light-years from the sun.
| Now, after the discovery of many other celestial body of Pluto's approximate size (and in one case, larger!) they had to choose: either we define "planets" as round bodies orbiting the sun (and have 3 more planets added to our solar system, with a possibility of 15 more eventually) or correct the Pluto mistake. |
Among the most significant developments related to Pluto was the discovery of the Kuiper Belt. Since the first Kuiper Belt Object was found in 1992, more than 1000 have been spotted, some are roughly half as big as Pluto.
As hope fades, a study released earlier this month shows that some Kuiper Belt Objects are smaller than had been assumed. The size of a distant object is often based on an estimate of its reflectivity, a measure called albedo. For years astronomers had assumed Kuiper Belt Objects where pretty dark, reflecting just 4 percent of the sunlight that hit them. Astronomer John Stansberry used NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope to obtain actual albedos for some of these icy objects. " Our results have albedos ranging from 6 percent to 18 percent for the eight objects I've analyzed," Stansberry said. If a Kuiper Belt Object is brighter than thought, then less surface area is required to reflect the amount of sunlight that was measured -- so the object's size must be revised downward. One object, catalogued as 2002 AW197, was thought to be two-thirds the diameter of Pluto. Stansberry has now shrunk that estimate to about one-third.
Given that our survey has covered almost the entire region of the Kuiper Belt, I'm willing to bet these days that nothing larger than Pluto will be found in the Kuiper Belt," says Caltech astronomer Mike Brown.
| Since Pluto was the only "planet" to have been discovered by United Staters, U.S.A.'s lobbied a lot to never remove Pluto from the planet list (you think you rule the world, eh?). |
Who exactly do you think the (IAU) is comprised of? Newsflash...... Read the definitions again made by the IAU. It is Global man, means we (Americans) have our dirty little hands in that too. "It applies only to the English language, and terminology may differ in other languages". Gee, I wonder why they did that. Who cares what country discovered what planet? If India would have discovered Pluto, you think they would have lobbied to keep it as a planet? You bet your butt they would have. So why is it so wrong that we Americans do it? Oh... Because we are Americans? Get over yourself dude. We are all human and do human things. Fact of the matter is, just because an organization says something or defines something a certain way, does not make it so. We Americans fight over that every day...... in the court of law. Some of the people who play this game are far more intelligent, have educations, and specialize in fields such as Astronomy and Astrophysics. Many of us are older than 12.
Sorry for the rant, I just get irked when people generalize about all Americans.
| And finally, those who think it was a big waste of money, the Astronomer congress was held in a city, and this city profited from some economic benefits out of having 200 scholars + staff in hotels, restaurants etc... Scientists are good for economy, so strop whining! |
Wow, your talking about a lot of money here... 200 Scholars..... Especially when the IAU meet only once every 3 years. The world holds olympiads more often then that. How much money do you think those 200 Scholars are paid for their time, and how much funding they use from their respective governments for their "Research". I bet you it is quite a bit more than that city makes.
Observations are slowly chipping away at the mysteries of Pluto, but the really big breakthroughs probably won't come until we see Pluto up close from a spacecraft fly by, which is expected to occur in 2015, when New Horizons finally reaches the distant world after a nine - year journey.
If this is the case, why in the world do we not just wait until we have the " Facts "? Why be in such a rush to re-catagorize Pluto? I mean, it has been a planet for about 80 years and all, I am sure we could wait 9 more years.
| The mistake was made in the 1930's when they called it a planet, it's just took 80 yrs to correct that mistake. Go save the whales or campaign for the environment or something... |
"Studies in 2003 showed that despite an almost nonexistent atmosphere, Pluto has wind and seasons and appears to have recently gone through a phase of global warming."
Another quote from an Astronomer. An Asteroid, Comet, or whatever you want to call it, that has seasons? Get out of here.
Pluto is suffering from Global Warming? I guess the Plutonians need to stop driving their SUVs too.
Bottom line........ All I would like to see is Pluto as a planet in the Galciv2. Is that so much to ask?
