RasterOps

Join Date 04/2003

Ship Designer, Core Ships, & Hull Classes

That's no Cruiser, that's my wife

1.20b.011
All I want are realistic hull class distinctions like GC 1 or real world. A ship class shouild not be dependent upon some arbitrary technology, e.g. Stinger IV.

II was building Frigate class ships before I knew I could and still have not seen a Human Frigate core class. Do I not call this a Frigate because I haven't researched Warp Coils III? I called these Corvettes because that made sense given the designer hulls available. The Corvette class would be the next logical hull size up.

When the Cruiser core class finally showed up in my list, I was sickened. Since when are Cruisers two-seater Fighters and smaller than Corvettes? The problem worsened when the Battleship class was finally available. I was ready to build a more powerful fighting machine but imediately realized the hull size, hit points, and equipment space was identical to the Destroyer. No Bismarks here!

None of this makes any sense and I Dread (Oh Lordy) to see what has become of the even higher level ship classes.

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You're using default ships? Good lord, why?

I strongly suggest setting all your tabs to "User." Don't even LOOK at the Core ships, they're embarassing.

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Franco fx

Join Date 04/2003

+59

Core ships are not good. Go by the hull sizes, tiny would usually be fighters, small would be corvettes and medium would be cruisers. You even get an in game movie when you roll out your first medium hull ship.

Actually, with the attachments you can make the ships any size you like. If you want a cruiser size early, take a small hull, paste on some jewelry and voila, cruiser.

When I got the game, I figured I would use the stock designs but I soon found that building the ships is one of the better features and my military wouldn't be caught dead in one of the dumb core ships.

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Agreed, the core ships are next to worthless (save for the colonizers and constructors), and I've wiled away many hours tinkering with new ship designs and ideas in the Shipyard, not only for functionality but just to make Really Cool-Looking Ships. Maybe it's the Scottish blood in me, or the armchair engineer, or the sci-fi nerd, or all three, but man the Shipyard in this game is downright addictive. I've even gone so far as to funnel my in-game resources into not-really-necessary research just so I could get more advanced components to put into new designs, even though I don't always use 'em.

And while we're on the subject of the Shipyard, a huge cudos to Stardock's 3D interface designer(s). To take what could be a hugely formidable and intimidating task for the average end-user and boil it down to its essential "fun" bits is no small undertaking! I have experience in 3D programming (shameless plug: Link, my simple 3D shooter), and I can fully appreciate the head-splitting decitions that had to go into creating the Shipyard interface. Excellent work!

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Core ships get obsolated in my games immidiately and thats why I really hope there would be a option to turn them off completely. Especially because in current beta when you obsolate core ships the choosing jumps to User side after every obsolation. Leading to very nice suprise in one game where I obsolated my very nicely designed own ship

I agree with OP on the technology thingy. Why not simply "release" core ships when the hull sizes are researched? It seems odd that they need all kinda other techs too. This would certainly add my use of older user designs too. At the moment I delete all my designs after each game.

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If I could turn off/delete the core ships, I would. They're utterly worthless, unimaginative inflexible designs, and I have never used them and never will.

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small ships can also be heavy fighters, large hulls would be the destroyers, the huge hulls would be the battleships and the capital ships, the star destroyers of your fleet.

and yes the core ships are completely worthless, except for the colonizer and constructor for the first several turns of the game until you make better ones.

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Agreed, the core ships are next to worthless (save for the colonizers and constructors),

i dont even find these usefull, i make my own. The starting constructor sacrifices an engine for lifesupport, i personly dont need my constructor to go across the map. Same goes for my colinizer. But this all depends on starting techs.

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I usually even UPDATE the initial colony and/or constructors the games gives me...
They are too slow and ugly for me to endure ...

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Everyone has missed my points; there were many.

First, who said I used core ships? I never said I used core ships. I use the same core ships that everyone else does. Don't try ta pin that rap on me copper, ya gots no evidence.

I think I'll just focus on point one.

Point 1: Each hull class must improve upon subsequent classes by increasing hit points and equipment space.

Sub-Point: Per the above rule, this game only has 5 hull classes.

GC II Class Hull HP Base Eq. Req. Tech
Defender
Fighter Tiny 6 16 Galactic Warfare, Space Militarization, Space Weapons

Heavy Fighter
Cruiser
Corvette Small 10 26

Frigate Medium 16 41 Basic Logistics, Advanced Hulls*, Medium Hulls

Destroyer
Battleship
Ranger (?) Large 30 55 Superior Hulls, Large Scale Building

Dreadnaught
Avatar
Overlord ? ? ?

Call your bejeweled design whatever you like you have only have 5 hull classes to choose from.

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6. You forgot cargo.

I'm confused as to what precisely your complaint is?

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Is this an argument? Can I play? heh.

One of the amazing things about hull size in this game is miniaturization. It makes everything smaller by increasing the effective room on a hull. So another way to look at it is that there is an array of hull sizes to choose from, depending on hull tech and miniturization tech.

Hull	Size	Basic	Enhanced	Advanced	Expert	Ultimate	Supreme
	100%	110%	125%	140%	155%	175%	200%
Tiny	16	17	20	22	24	28	32
Small	26	28	32	36	40	45	52
Medium	38	41	47	53	58	66	76
Large/Cargo	55	60	68	77	85	96	110
Huge	80	88	100	112	124	140	160

For instance, let's say I already have Medium hulls and Enhanced miniaturization. Would I be better off going for the Large hull (55 space) or the Expert minitiurization (58 space)? Researching Advanced+Expert will cost 3,500 research, but SuperiorHulls+LargeScale will only cost 2,500 research points.

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I think you are being to strick on yourself. You can name your ships whatever you want, and are not constrained by what the game names them.

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MUCHO thanks to AngleWyrm !!!!

I just "cut / pasted" your post into my personal strat guide ...

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I'm confused as to what precisely your complaint is?

I think I understand now why no one here understands. You have all played a dozen or so games and have come to accept the problem I am trying to express.

I had Corvettes, made them myself from the medium hull because this made sense. I wanted Cruisers so I would have the next more powerful class of vessel. I needed this to compete with the other races. You must know there is no Cruiser class greater than the hull. I was already using the Frigate hull wasn't I?

I had Destroyers. My enemies had Battleships. I wanted Battleships. Must I explain? OK. I finally complete the Battleship required techs... The proof was the core Battleship class is now in my build list. Now I can outfit my Battleship the way I want. But wait, evidently I am already using a Battleship hull. This is pissing me off. A Destroyer hull IS NOT the same size as a Battleship hull!

I still want a Battleship hull. Now here comes the thinking of everyone who has played a dozen games. When you research the requisite hull tech you call your ship a Battleship. I don't.

I want a Fleet of mixed class vessels that includes a Cruiser, a Destroyer, and a Battleship. I don't want a fleet that has three different configurations of the same hull. A Destroyer has more equipment space than a Cruiser and a Battleship most certainly has double the equipment space of a Destroyer.

If I play yours and GC II's little wording game then the Huge hull class is actually my Battleship. I find this unacceptable and lame. I don't understand why we can't have distinct hull classes for each distinct ship class.

Repost cuz I can't edit my own post or preview this one!???

GC II	Hull	Hp	Base Eq	Req. Tech
Defender Fighter	Tiny	6	16	Galactic Warfare, Space Militarization, Space Weapons
Heavy Fighter Cruiser Corvette	Small	10	26
Frigate	Medium	16	41	Basic Logistics, Advanced Hulls*, Medium Hulls
Destroyer Battleship Ranger	Large	25	50	Superior Hulls, Large Scale Building
Dreadnaught Avatar Overlord

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

If I play yours and GC II's little wording game then the Huge hull class is actually my Battleship. I find this unacceptable and lame. I don't understand why we can't have distinct hull classes for each distinct ship class.

The thing you seem to be having difficulty with is that gc2 *has no distinct ship classes*. The 'core' ships are pretty much all junk--more examples than anything. There's no reason at all you should pay any attention to them or use the same naming conventions as they do. And if your complaint boils down to there simply being too few hull sizes, then mod more in if you like (you just can't submit to the metaverse while playing with mods).

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