killerz298

Join Date 05/2005

Open Letter to Gal Civ II Webmaster

I sent this email to the Gal Civ II team. I wanted to get some input from the community. Please let me know what you think about the issue brought up in the letter and hopefully Stardock will respond when they find the time.

Hey Developers,

I couldn’t find a webmaster contact on the site so I hope this is the correct address to send this to. If it is not, please forward it to the correct people.

I LOVE gal civ II, and all the hard work that has been put into it, and it is nice that you guys wanted to have the forums similar in style and integrated into the overall website however in my opinion, and I feel in the opinion of many others it isn’t as user friendly as the common web forums we have come to know and love (phpBB, Invision Power Board). I don’t feel the current system is working and I think that it has spawned duplicate posts due to difficulty in finding things.

Why did you guys choose to go this route? Do you guys plan on switching over to a more common board form any time soon? It was nice to try out the forums the way you did, but I do not think that it is worth the lack of user friendliness. Perhaps there is some way to configure the other common boards with a custom skin so that it will integrate better with your overall site theme.

I know there have been many posts on this topic on the forums, however I don’t think a sufficient answer has been provided. Perhaps you guys would be willing to set up a poll on the main site dealing with this issue to get feedback from all your users. Make choices, which style forums would you like to use? 1. Current system 2. phpBB 3. Invision.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to my suggestions and feedback and keep up the great work with the game!!! Any type of response would be appreciated when you find the time.

ideas

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Not an SD webdev (yet), but I am a moderator here... and this isn't the first post of this type by far.

1) Stardock uses only Mircosoft servers/languages. That means ASP.NET; PHP is not even in the slightest consideration.

2) They've been using this same in-house developed forum system for years across all stardock sites (the forums are actually all one forum, but only certain sections appear on each site).

3) They intend to continue using a proprietary solution so as to avoid the various headaches involved with trying to keep up-to-date with the forum developer's bugfixes/improvements while also making their own extensive changes to fit their needs (I can attest it's bad enough just trying to keep a moderately modified forum up-to-date with developer patches).

4) They've heard the complaints, and there is a forum update and/or overhaul slated in the near future. But there's no telling exactly what it will involve.

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This post has been moderated

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There is no need for name calling!

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It's a term of affection for the male genitalia.

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1) Stardock uses only Mircosoft servers/languages. That means ASP.NET; PHP is not even in the slightest consideration.

They might want to have a look at the software from http://www.pd9soft.com/ Good package so far, tho I can't tell how well it performs with the number of users this site has. Seems rather adaptable as well, and updates aren't made that often (not sure if that's a good or bad sign

Who knows, the makers might want to work with Stardock to enhance their product with features written by they programmers here, maybe a joint venture with SD as a publisher for the pay version

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Xan

Join Date 01/2003

+29

Most companies don't provide anything like this type of community. Stardock obviously likes this system. If you don't like it, go to Apolyton or CivFanatics. Civ 4 doesn't even have forums they send users directly there.

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Stardock obviously likes this system.

Obviously ? How's that ?

They might like it because they made the software self, so that's understandable.

However, if the server upgrades don't help, it might be a problem with the software. Perhaps they can fix it if needed, maybe they can't.

There may be other reasons why they keep this software.

For example at work, we were developing a special "database" kind of program (difficult to explain) that needed to talk to databases of other companies with different protocols for each company (those other companies are competitors so aren't very willing to let go of the needed info).. It also needed a uniform interface that would replace all the interfaces (GUI) we had for all the different programs we were using

Now, my company poured thousands of euros in that project, either to fix the amount of bugs, user requested changes or new features. For 4 years they poured money in the project without it getting anywhere. After a while even the main programmer said it was better to scrap all code and begin from the beginning.. But management believed that because of all the money spend on it the project would not be abandoned..

Finally after even more wasted money it became obvious that non of the involved parties would give full cooperation so finaly the project was scrapped.

What I mean is that the entire forum/database structure SD uses is here allready, it might cost a lot to maintain or make changes to, maybe less then switching to a newer system, maybe not. Has nothing to do with liking it really

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It's a term of affection for the male genitalia.

i'd always heard it's properly speaking a whale's thingy. but apperantly not. per etymonline.com:

"dork: 'stupid person,' 1967, originally U.S. student slang, probably from earlier meaning "penis" (1964), itself probably an alteration of dick."

no connotation of affection whatsoever. now i hope we can all be grown-ups here (random side-note, the etymology of "cute" is a lot moe interesting).

anywho, the forums are a little awkward. but if you make a concernted effort, they're a lot easier to use than they appear to be at first. duplicate posts do happen, but i don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. i rarely check over every new post. maybe SD does, but i don't. and i'm sure many other casual players don't either. but i've clicked on several duplicate posts to which i'd have never found the original. many times thoughtful citizens here have posted links to other forums all ready, with a much richer discussion in progress. maybe it is a waste of SD's server space, but that's their issue. use the 'watch' command. it's your best friend.

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Xan I dont see any reason for the tone of your post. The statement by Killerx298 is a perfectly reasonable question/statement and certainly does not require the sort of post you replied with!

If you dont like it go to Apolyton or CivFanatics

A more prominent problem we have here in these forums are replies of this type that cause long 'flame' posts to follow and lose the topic completely. Please think before replying like this as it is uncalled for and not needed in these forums! Each member has their own point of view on a posted subject and we should all respect that view. If you dont agree with it then say so in a diplomatic way that explains why you dont. People are more likely to come over to your way of thinking if you rationally explain why you dont like the comment rather than just 'flaming' the original poster..

DG
GCII Forum Moderator

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Thank you DG! I specifically made it a point in my post to emphasize that I was not criticizing the web team nor saying anything about not appreciating all their hard work. I was just offering my opinion in a civil manner and when asking for a response, I meant I wanted CONSTRUCTIVE responses.

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I don't mind the layout of the site at all. It has been on the slow side from time to time.

Funny thing. I was using PCCillin antivirus for a while. I have used it on and off since 1998 or so. Someone mentioned that it was not the best, so when the trial ended this time and the time came to purchase it I looked at some reviews on PC World's site. BitDefender got the top scores, so I bought it. Just today, as a matter of fact.

The funny part is that this site in particular seems to have speeded up quite a bit as a result. Maybe it is just the timing and a currently light load on the server. Time well tell, I guess.

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Nicely said

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I think they could do a lot to enhance the board, and I think it would provide a showcase to the other Software they produce. I am sure there is a lot in the Windows additions they produce that could be used to good effect.

However I also recognise that the developer resources are not unlimited, and they must balance needs of Retail Software and any possible enhancements to the Board. It sounds like from a previous poster and enhancement may be coming, if so great.

If not, well we are not in a postion to make definitive judgement on the balance of Resource allocation. GalCiv2 is an excellent game, and has an amazing level of passionate dev support. I would certainly rather they continued game support than the board if it was a case of one or the other.

At the end of the day, its easy to make a surface judgement, only they can make a definitive one - on the track record of GalCiv2, I am sure they are making the right balanced choice, its a question of 'trust'. The hassles on the board are not that huge - I can happily live with them.

Regards
Zy

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I've pretty much inherited the forums project here at stardock (however, we all work on it). I see that you had pointed out that there were several other posts made on this topic. Please search for replies made by myself to these posts. I've listed some very good reasons in the past. The forums have never enjoyed a constant amount of attention in the past, which is changing now. We are also in the process of making major changes to the system.

Have a look through the older posts again, and please be patient. Changes are coming. Feel free to continue to speculate in the meantime

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Well, I guess it didn't change anything after all. The site is snail slow right now.
Some pages never finish loading, others can take several minutes, and a few load in seconds.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Everything gets moved to a new server tomorrow morning (EST), so it should be faster afterwards.

One thing to keep in mind as far as the speed goes--JoeUser.com and WinCustomize.com are hosted on the same servers, and every time in the past when they've gotten upgrades, the JU and WC users (and the users here) have quickly devoured the slack bandwidth/cpu time. Hopefully the new monster will stave off the next server choke for a while longer...

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That's good news for sure. I can only imagine the bandwidth requirements for this site alone.
Will the site be off line during the move? And if so, how long do you expect it to take?

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2420

My gripe about "I hate the forums" is that the gripes are incredibly vague.

Is it a layout issue? It is a feature issue? If I had a few specific examples of what people don't like then I could gauge whether it's something we can easily add or tweak or not.

The main benefit of our system is that we have a single universal forum system across multiple sites.

Even as you write this here on galciv2.com it's also available from Stardock.com:

https://forums.stardock.com/?ForumID=247&AID=119884

In addition, in Stardock Central, you can access the same forums (very quickly) from the Discussions area.

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I think it's incredibly amusing that someone says they don't like the forums and asks 'why did you make them like this' and you tell him to use the forums, lol.

I searched the forums for 'forum' and 'forums' and I see you haven't commented on the biggest thread with suggestions in it : https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=349&AID=109434#903418

I would search more, but hey why don't *you* use the search function and look up all the suggestions for the fourms that others have posted.

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Frogboy, I think the thing most people do not like about the forums is that they are different than most of the forums they have used in the past. That means a learning curve. Thats not necessarily fair, but it is at least some of the problem. Most forums I use have a similar look and feel making them easy to use. There are other issues like features they are used to like the ability for me to search for all of my posts, not just the threads I initiated. As far as I know, you can't do that here. Let me know if I am wrong on this as I have wanted to do it several times.

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Please do trust me when I say that we have taken special care in taking a look at the requests and complaints made. You're just not going to see an instant change however. There's also no time frame that we can promise for any updates. We're working on it everyone. And while the forums may not be pleasurable for [you] to use at the moment, I would plead with you to exercise some patience while we work on this.

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Well, at least the new server seems snappier.

I agree that there could be better search functions, but the general layout of the site is cool. I like the fact that Stardock didn't go with a canned option. Everything being to generic is rather boring. My biggest complaint has been the server response times, and hopefully that won't be an issue anymore with this new server.

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