RA5C

Join Date 10/2002

Submissions

On the GUIOlympics home page, it states that the GUIOlympics is a contest in which the "top graphics designers from around the world" are competing for $15,000. If the submissions I've seen in the Windowblinds category are indicative of what the worlds top graphics designers are capable of, then the state of the skinning community is in trouble.

If I wanted flat buttons, monochromatic colors and simplistic formats, I'd have just stuck with Win98. And, no matter how many times you put black text against a dark gray background, it's still hard to read. Not everyone has a 21" CRT sitting on their desk. These little LCD's don't have the high contrast capability. You gotta make you skins look good for everyone, or just keep it to yourself.

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You're right, we all suck. All the skins suck. Skinning is doomed.

Trolling along.... on a summers day... la da de de...

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

You gotta make you skins look good for everyone, or just keep it to yourself.

Hey how bout this. You make your own skins and keep them to yourself. In the meantime I will see what I can do to get the rest of the world to change for your standards.

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*Eagerly awaits DLieburn's windowblinds submissions they should be the best skins ever released........*

And to the skinners taking part damm wicked skins you guy's are doing.

Good luck to ya all only wish I had some talent to take part

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Not everyone has a 21" CRT sitting on their desk. These little LCD's don't have the high contrast capability. You gotta make you skins look good for everyone, or just keep it to yourself.

What ridiculous reasoning! So, because some people have laptops, skin authors should not publish any skins that tend to look good only on CRTs, even though those skins would look fine on the great majority of computers

I can take your post only about as seriously as I would take someone who wrote an angry letter to a confectionery shop demanding that they stop selling mars bars, because not everyone likes them - or to stop making peanut brittle, because some people are allergic to peanuts.

You knew your laptop would have visual limitations when you bought the thing, so stop whining and accept it!

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Jut taking a quick peek through the library...

Some are monochromatic, but not all of them.
Some have flat buttons, but not all of them.
Some have simplistic formats, but not all of them.

I think the WB skins submitted up to date reflect a fairly broad set of styles which are 'in vogue' at this time - flat 'illustrated'; minimalistic; glossy plastic etc. Maybe there just isn't one which you prefer. Best not to criticise 'generally' just because you haven't found a design which meets your personal taste or requirements. I don't think that anyone who has submitted a skin expects it to suit everyone. More likely, they hope that some people will appreciate their design and enjoy using it.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion...

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I haven't laughed this hard, in a long time........my side STILL hurts.

Thanks, DLieBurn.

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Jan Oscar

Join Date 12/2002

+1210

He said WHAT???

... You really make skinning funny, Burnie...

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Woohoo! I love it when people do this. I can understand your point though. Keep in mind, most skins are made to appeal to the MAKER, not to the USER. I made mine because I wanted something that was simple, and easy to work with. Sure its "monochrome" and "simple" but thats what I wanted it to be like. Beyond that, I dont care what people think of it. (although, I do care what the judges think of it

)

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Maybe I should win the money for not entering anything, that way no one can dislike it.

I win...............I win........

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DLieburn: Boy! I loved your post! This is the way I like.

I bet I can make a skin just for you, using all the effects just to please you, not using flat buttons or monochrome colors, just tell me what you want and i will do it exclusively for you.

Just one thiny detail....I charge Us$ 80,00 per hour.

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Sort of playing devil's advocate here, but I agree with most of what DLieburn said. Many authors seem to be taking the better safe than sorry road with windowblinds. The Icon Packages thus far have been great in my opinion, each one seems to stand out on its own. As for the Winamp skins, they have been pretty impressive thus far, and I expect them only to get better because of the time needed to develop a great skin, as it involves more actual programming that the other categories. But the WB skins, seem a bit lacking. Don't get me wrong the over all quality is great, but the creativity just doesn't seem to be there in most of them. A few stand out, NewAge by DarkMist and Pixel 8 from essorant comes to mind. Though in comparison the ratio of very creative to average (for lack of a better word) WB skins in 2002 seems to be weighing much more on the side of creativity than this year's. I have quite some fond memories of seeing some very different skins from last GUI Olympics, most of them were something very far beyond ordinary: Verdure, Real, and Seti skins come to mind. I have no doubt that WB category will get much more interesting later on, I also have no doubt that Alexandrie is going to release a skin that's just going to entirely blow my mind as LOS did last time.

It just seems we're not quite at that point yet. What I'm getting at is I don't think DlieBurn set out to piss anyone off, though I'm sure he has, he was just speaking of his observations. After all there was a news post on this very site talking about how people tend to pass over creativity for high DL counts, and how that is not what the GUI Olympics are about. So it would seem a fairly valid observation. Everyone seemed to come down a bit hard on him, so I thought I should interject. As for those of you who may reply to what I've said with something similar to "*Eagerly awaits DLieburn's windowblinds submissions they should be the best skins ever released........*", I tell you this I will release a WB skin the likes of which no one has seen... (I just hope I will be done i time for judging :/ )

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One problem with WindowBlinds in comparison to Winamp is that your design is going to be limited to only a small amount of screen space - the frame of a window; the buttons on a dialog etc. whereas Winamp has a discrete 'space' of its own for a designer to fill however he wants. And within the space you have, you are restricted to certain forms - triangular buttons aren't going to work, for example.

The trick is being creative within those boundaries, and producing something that is both professional and usable. To be honest, the more skins you do, the harder the job of being 'creative' becomes. (I personally find myself wanting something more... unfussy nowadays.) One thing is certain - everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a good design.

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Throwing my 2 cents in here, maybe different people have different ideas of what 'creative' is. For example, as essorant said, shape is somewhat of a limitation with WindowBlinds. Sure you can use transparency to give the appearance of different shapes, but only in certain parts of the skin. Some parts are still going to be a square box, more or less. Don't get me wrong, there are some skinners that are very good at making you forget you are just looking at a square because of the detail they put in or maybe they are very good at creating the illusion of something else.

That leaves you with texture, and to a lesser degree color. Texture seems to be the area a lot of people feel is lacking in creativity, at least from some of the threads I've seen on WC concerning the gel/glass stuff that seems so predominant. If you look through the libraries, a lot of what has been done in the past year has that same look. And there's no doubt, it is popular given the download counts of that type of skin.

I can see where someone, looking through all the gel/glass skins would wonder when are people going to do something else. I have looked at some of the older skins and see a lot more variation in 'materials' used to skin, such as wood, leather, etc.

A few fairly recent skins that come to mind that stepped outside the box are Tab by Koasati, Carbon Fibre by BoXXi, and Tore Up XP by IR Brainiac.

Good luck to everyone!

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I totally agree with you MindlessPuppet that many people have been leaning towards the safe and popular designs than the really original and unusual ones (in all 3 categories, I would say, not just windowblinds). But DLieburn never actually adressed that in his/her post. Not explicitly anyway.

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how about we all save the grandstanding/complaining/posturing fo the end of the competition? after everyone has had a chance to submit and if nothing peaks your interest creatively, then by all means go on and gripe to your heart's content. doing what some people are doing is the same as going to a football game during the preshow and complaining that no one has thrown a 75 yard hail mary to win the game with 3 seconds left. (for our friends across the ponds, screaming that your favorite driver on the F1 circuit hasn't gone up 50 places when it's only lap 3.) a little presumptious don't you think?

I'm sure there are a few people with cards up their sleeves, since I know for a fact the are a few on our team. why not save all the complaining and "I can do something original!" until you either 1. actually do it or 2. the contest is actually over and judged?

these are just the opinions of a madman who was just released from bellevue.

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It seems to me that despite what is being said for creativity, the categories seem to reflect a higher emphisis on usability.

Most Usable: At least to me a usable skin is something that you will keep on your system for more than a week... something that is non overly intrusive and is easy on the eyes.

Best Psuedo -Os is something that looks like it could be an OS... most OS's are designed to be usable and so this category to me is a little unneccesary since it seems to be to be a little redundant... but again I think the focus is on usability.

Best Power-user: again emphasis on usability rather than creativity.

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'HEADLINE'

NO ONE skins for public demand (Unless its a job etc where pay is concerned), you don't like it don't download it, but please do not make such comments as to dishearten new skinners and experienced alike....Sorry but I personally dislike your attitude as like many others my time is spent on making these skins and sharing for the sheer pleasure of it, if no skins cater for you feel free to make your own and show us how to make a "real" skin and show the masters like Frogboy, Pixtudio (and alot of others) where they are going wrong. Sorry if I offend people now but if you don't like what your seeing your not forced to come here.

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Isn't when someone skins for high DL counts sort of the same thing as skinning for public demand? (not sure if you're responding to DLieburn's comment or my own. )

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Comment made to DLieburn, I try and be different, thats why my downloads counts are usually low

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Heh, "I try and be different, thats why my downloads counts are usually low", I may know that feeling better than anyone. I hear you on it, it sucks to be honest. That's why I expect so much from the GUIOlympics. I've watched all the authors from the time I was skinning make works for commission, and become the master as you called them. Meanwhile I sort of just faded away, more than anything probably because I just flat out stopped skinning because I needed to focus on my own financial situation at the time. But alas, I'm back for the time being, and now is the time to shine.

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I like your work alot, different

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GreenReaper

Join Date 05/2001

+32

Let's be honest here. Things have changed. The prevailing styles are minimalistic, smooth, and "clean", and that is because that is what a large amount of people want to see. You know those guys who complain about WB styles being too crazy, too out-on-the-edge? Well, some of them have become skinners, and others have become people who buy skins, and still others are those who comment and rate on skins. And they've changed the market - and it is a market, despite most of it being free to download. The popular skins are, by definition, those that appeal to the widest audiences.

Part of the problem may also be that it's so much harder to be creative all the time, and there's a lot more to skin nowadays. You can't just say "Oh, here's a cool titlebar". It has to match with everything else, otherwise (the skinner fears) it won't be deemed up to the standard. And there are a lot of people prepared to criticise skins for not being complete.

Having said that, I think in the end people who do go out on a limb here and do somethign highly original could end up winning a lot, simply because it'll make a change. You think Frogboy or Kris gets a bit bored after looking through 100 Luna-likes?

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