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superhest

Join Date 03/2006

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Bug: AI handling agressive civs

I've been playing the new beta for at couple of hours now and the Thalan just declared war on me.

The next turn all the "protective" civs declared war on me because "my agression againt the Thalan empire was unjust".

On my account that would be the same as Britain declaring war on Poland when Germany invaded

I think there is a need for ajusting their paranoia just a little bit here

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I have observed, that this feature also can make the game easier in som circumstances.

4 Civs left, me, my ally the Korx, the Drath and the rampaging Yor.

The Yor declare war on the Korx, who instantly ask for help. I tried to get the Drath involved, but they would not declare war for anything I could afford.

After the Yor took 2 Korx planetes, they obviously got flagged as "on a conquest strategy" and the Drath threw themselves willingly in as on the long term it will secure their survival.

Now the Yor are getting creamed by the three of us and the whole thing will most likely end in an alliance victory of the korx, the drath and me.

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I agree that the idea is good

But remember it was the Thalan that attacked me... and I got flagged as the aggressor.

In your example that would be the equivalent to the Drath attacking the Korx instead of the Yor.

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Same thing happened to me, granted I was evil so that would probably explain it. I'm sorry but me and the Drengin alone can't hold off half the galaxy when they zerg us, and Oh beleive me they zerg now and do protect transports.

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Super, maybe their attack on you was justified, but the message it gave was wrong? "your agression was unjust" sounds inappropriate, but can you think of other reasons why they might have wanted to attack you, like ethics or weakness? Do you have a savegame that shows their stances to you right before they attacked?

=$= Big J Money =$=

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I think their reason was my extermination of the Iconians and Drath earlier in the game. Which would have been fine, had I attacked the Thalans.

If this is the way it is supposed to work I’ll just have to adjust my strategy accordingly but I find it a little hard to work out how to avoid being attacked by everyone if I’m considered the aggressor in a war started by another party. I tried to reload an autosave and attack them first with the same result – the other civs attacked me with the “unjust aggression” remark.

(My ethic is “Neutral” and I had “Cool” relations with the Terrans and “Normal” with the other attackers – including the Thalans. My military was below par but not the weakest)

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But remember it was the Thalan that attacked me... and I got flagged as the aggressor.

clearly, you provoked the Thalan, with your... uhm... aggressive posturing.

yeah.

anyway, would this be the first time that nations used the excuse of "agression" by a non-threatening opponent as an excuse for doing what they wanted to do anyway?

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clearly, you provoked the Thalan, with your... uhm... aggressive posturing.

Actually, that's a pretty good point. If you only got tagged as a conqueror for attacking first, I could see someone cheesing their way around it by never attacking. When you want to wipe someone out you just park a huge invasion fleet next to their home planet and await the inevitable.

I wonder if perhaps it should be less a function of how many wars you've started, and more about how large your empire is. The bigger you get, for whatever reason, the more scared people get. And perhaps modify that with your military rating. Just an idea.

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Question: Prior to being declared war on, how many races did you take out ?

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Two, is what he said. I wonder if minor races count.

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I think their reason was my extermination of the Iconians and Drath earlier in the game. Which would have been fine, had I attacked the Thalans.

That's the reason, you've already conquered 2 races. Even if you didn't start the latest war, they can't let you conquer a 3rd race, otherwise you'll grow too strong. Even though the message wasn't exactly right, they did make a sensible decision.

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This complicates the conquest victory immensely.

Not only do you have to be strong enough to conquer a race. You have to be ready to fight the entire galaxy when you have done so because someone might declare war on you without notice and the rest of them will follow.

In the game in question I started out with three planets and the Iconian, Drath and Thalans within reach – the rest of the galaxy was out of initial reach. So the only alternative to conquering the neighbours - if I wanted to grow - was Ctrl-N (which is very unsatisfying).

From the AI p.o.v. the Thalans did exactly the right thing. They knew they would eventually be next and made a pre-emptive attack knowing(?) that the rest of the galaxy would follow their example.

That is why I thought – and still think – this has to be a bug or at least something that needs adjustment (something like "that war between the two two-planet-civs does not pose a threat to my mighty empire”) because that game would not have been a challenge… it would have been impossible. I had six planets when everyone attacked me - two of which where class 4 - I was no threat to anybody... not even the Thalans.

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I like the change, although as I said earlier I'd like for other factors to be taken into consideration as well, such as empire size and military rating.

You could perhaps get around this by leaving your victims with one small planet instead of wiping them out completely. If it's well inside your borders it'll culture flip to you pretty quick.

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This complicates the conquest victory immensely.

That's the point. Before it was too easy. The races would just sit there and let you conquer them one by one.

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You could perhaps get around this by leaving your victims with one small planet instead of wiping them out completely. If it's well inside your borders it'll culture flip to you pretty quick

Actually I did that... of course they surrendered to the Terrans... so you get credited with the "kill" no matter what.

That's the point. Before it was too easy. The races would just sit there and let you conquer them one by one

So I should have acknowledged that the map in question was impossible and started a new game?

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