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DancesWithLobsters
Join Date 03/2006
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Damn traitorous allies

April 10, 2006 10:31:40 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So I thought I was doing pretty good till I notice my enemies have tiny ships that deal over 80 beam damage... yippie! I'm allied with the strongest of the two remaining but then the third gets that stupid "assassination" event and goes to war with my ally. My ally tells me I need to help them out, or the alliance is off. Now, our new enemy is insanely stronger than I am. My best ships couldn't hold a candle to their escort fleets. But I figure, I'll keep my committments and my ally will finish them off before I can take too much damage.

Not so.

After I've lost all my starbases, nearly all my military and one of my best planets, I get a message through espionage that my ally and my enemy have called a peace treaty, and I'm left with my pants down. My enemy refuses to accept peace and my ally refuses to come to my aid.

I am BONED.
diplomacy
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DancesWithLobsters
Gamefan 1981
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #1 April 10, 2006 10:37:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
LOL!!! Hahaha. Stupid AI.
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GCFL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 April 10, 2006 10:50:13 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I noticed this also...same kind of thing happened to me. I made a post once asking if there was some way to increase the AI determination but got no response. The fact is, unfortunately, that the AI will almost always start a war on your side but never finish it. I would like to see it stick around with me if it is really my ally.
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Tommymac
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 April 10, 2006 11:33:13 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That begs the question...if you started the war but were getting your butt walloped would you stick around, and refuse making a peace treaty so you could survive, just to see it through so they can win?
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Castun
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 April 10, 2006 11:40:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The alliances need to be handled better. They should be treated more like a semi-permanent team. If you are allied with another race, and they join an alliance with a 3rd race, all 3 of you should be allied. If an ally member ends up in a war, everybody would have to help them, or leave the alliance, with the possibility of future retribution, once the war settles back down.

I think a cool idea would be to have a vote type system in place for alliance members. In order for war to be declared by a member of the alliance, a simple yes or no vote. It would be divided up as 1 vote per team, so no matter how powerful or weak a member may be, it's an even vote. Maybe need a 50% or 66% yes vote percentage needed.

If the vote passes, but you voted no (say, you simply cannot afford a war or you are too exposed to the intended enemy) you could leave the alliance as a result and lose face with the other members of the alliance. Though not nearly as bad as if you abandoned a member who was attacked by a 3rd party.

And if you're getting badly pounded, you really couldn't sign a cease fire with the enemy, because chances are, when the enemy is stronger than you, they don't tend to let off very easily. Maybe another vote, this time for a cease fire / peace treaty, and the enemy would consider the power of the entire aliilance as a factor when deciding.

Just some ideas, but probably too much trouble to implement these kinds of changes though...
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Calibur12001
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 April 10, 2006 11:51:25 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
This actually happened to me multiple times in my last game. My custom race was allied with just about everyone, but the AI would go to war at the drop of a hat. I started off trying not to offend anyone and ended up on a two front war. After that, I said "no more". Whenever they insisted I go to war I declined. Yes, it ended our alliance, but it wasn't so bad. It's worse if you go to war unprepared and get your planets handed to you. In the end they started declaring war on me, and I fought them into extinction, refusing their surrenders. Screw them! The bottom line is...

Say NO to war!
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GCFL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #6 April 10, 2006 11:56:43 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

" That begs the question...if you started the war but were getting your butt walloped would you stick around, and refuse making a peace treaty so you could survive, just to see it through so they can win?"


That's part of the issue as well. It seems that the AI is all too willing to start a war and maybe even join in but it also makes peace with other AIs much too quickly. The question is not if you would accept a peace treaty if you were getting your butt kicked, the real question is would you be offering peace to an enemy who's Butt you were kicking as the AI seems to do with other AI's. Thus the issue of your allys leaving you AFTER they pulled you in in the first place.
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Morberis
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 April 11, 2006 12:20:26 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I dunno, I make war and peace just as quickly as the AI's. Now what would be nice though is if I wasn't dragged into a war every 5 turns because one of my 2 allies got attacked then two turns later signed a peace treaty. But thankfully that hasn't happened in my latest game, all the races painful setting beta 3 and the game is split between my side (Me, Drengin, the robot guys gahh) and everyone else. O yes, I also ate one of my allies when it became apparent all he was going to be was paste for my enemies. I think they were the iconians.
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Tommymac
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 April 11, 2006 1:02:21 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
BTW GCFL, you can't be dragged into a war your Allies start themselves as the aggressor. Only if they are attacked does the alliance kick in.
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Miborovsky
Join Date 06/2005
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Reply #9 April 11, 2006 1:16:14 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Heh. Sounds like something I would do. I'm the traitorous ally in the alliance.
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Profound Darkness
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #10 April 11, 2006 2:30:01 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Something I think would benefit is when the AI tries to make peace (eather the ally ai or the agressor ai) the ally ai makes going to peace status with the other AI's an issue.

You know how you can play peacemaker with the ais, well when an ally goes for peace they should push for peace with their allies too.

unless of course you were the agressor then it's just your fault if you are all alone, you could always put going to war against another ai to your ally ai(s) if they make peace (for now).
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MrKorx
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #11 April 11, 2006 6:03:23 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Another issue, i 'd like to see better handled, if only 4 factions left, I'd like to be able to buy some faction off their alliance, thus beeing able to finish off those bloody terrans. At the moment, they are allied with the arceans and the thalans, whereas I'm allied with the thalans as well. The whole diplomacy got stuck, since i can't bribe say the arceans or demand help from thalans... The Terrans declared war on me (they are #1 military) and bribed their arcean ally to attack as well, which is going to be suicide for those slimy arceans anyway...
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DancesWithLobsters
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Reply #12 April 11, 2006 11:14:33 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'd like to be able to demand a surrender...
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Chrominium
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #13 April 11, 2006 11:23:44 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
As I mentioned in other posts, the ONLY reason to enter an alliance is to win via the alliance victory.

The reason is that there is no way to protect other allies starbases, planets etc. The AI will never come to your aid either, and its difficult to go to their aid. There is something majorly wrong with the alliance option and is probably one of the first thing I like to see improved as the next new feature.

The way it's implemented, it is used to screw other races over because everyone is trying 'to win'. When you enter into an alliance - beware!
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Felkethar
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #14 April 11, 2006 11:53:46 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Perhaps I'm mistaken but aren't the AIs written such that they will be willing to accept peace as soon as thier military rating is lower than yours (or their enemy of the moment)? This would seem to explain why they get peace as quickly as they do?

Felk the Thoughtful
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