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Join Date 12/2005
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A modest proposal

Making planetary invasion more flexible

March 28, 2006 9:52:27 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Appologies if this or similar has been brought up, but I'm new here

Orbital bombardments.

Basically, a fleet could cause damage to a planet's structures/population by attacking it, up to 100% of the improvements/population being destroyed/wiped out.

Mitigate this by building the 'Bomb Shelters' improvement, which cuts population loss to a maximum of 66%, and the 'Planetary Shields' improvement, which limits structure damage to 25% of all structures. I guess also have a 2nd tier upgrade for both of these which doubles their effectiveness to 33% and 50% respectively.

Thanks for reading and for any input
warfare
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syneris
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #1 March 28, 2006 10:17:18 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's been discussed some, and I think the general consensus was basicly it'd ruin gameplay.
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mtg202
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #2 March 28, 2006 10:29:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think it might have a damaging affect on this game, however, I used to play reach for the stars. I was delighted when galciv 2 took alot of what I loved about reach for the stars that I missed from galciv 1 and included it, such as ship design. It was turned galciv 2 into almost a hybrid of the two, and has made it probably my all time favorite game. I am always annoyed, though, by having to use the populations of my planets to invade. So perhaps, either orbital bombardment, or the ability to create "marines" instead of having to use people from planets, a special military.
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Josh_88
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 March 28, 2006 10:34:16 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
well, like syneris said, it would ruin gameplay because then there is nothing stopping you from just taking a powerful fleet and destroying everything, taking the strategic part away, also there would be nothing stopping th ai from doing the same thing to you. and mtg202 said something about making marines, but the argument against that, is by using population it adds to the strategy again, you cant just make all your transports and use population from one place without taking a lot of economic hits etc... so its all about gameplay.
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JamesACG
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 March 28, 2006 10:49:58 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Man... I thought this was going to be about eating babies to curb famine...

That said, I feel like there should be something other than what is there.

Obviously it wouldn't work in the game as it is now, and isn't worth trying overhaul everything for, but I hate having warships sitting around a planet without being able to do ANYTHING to it.
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Stanley Tarrant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 March 28, 2006 11:05:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I feel that planetary bombardment could be included. Just balance it out, by having it never be able to completely kill off a population like in MOO2. Also, carrying all the nukes or high tech equivelent weapons of mass destruction would take up lots of space on a ship (obviously less with higher tech), so the "nuke carrying" ships would have to be protected like transports. I think it would be sweet in the late game to have a steller converter equipped "doom star" type ship capable of destroying a world and turning it into asteroids. However, its use would cause all other races to ally against you to take you out. I would also like to see better invasion animation though! It would be cool to actually see the mass drivers invasion strategy or gas warfare strategy in action.
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njero
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 March 28, 2006 11:25:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I like the idea of large, expensive ship components that could do small amounts of damage to a planet (population, quality, structures, etc.), or aid in invasion.
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waitingtoconnect
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #7 March 28, 2006 11:35:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think it complicates matters unnecessarily. I'd prefer if hostile ships could enter orbit into your planet and 'blockade' your opponent so that the planet couldn't contribute to his empire.
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Shapememory
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 March 29, 2006 12:05:59 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

bombardment would be pretty nice. first space strategy game i played, pax imperia, had this in it. i believe only certain weapons  could damage a planet and you could never totally wipe out a population doing raids. like you first 2-3 raids would do 10-20% damage to structures and population, but after that the damages tampered off til it almost did nothing like less than 1%.


so basically you had to have a ship that mounted at least one of the correct weapon type, then get it on site, then do a few raids and finally hit it with a troop transport to capture the planet if you wanted it. save having to build so many dang transports.


you could also design you own weapons in that game which was a kick, but thats for another thread.
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Francis Deschenes
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #9 March 29, 2006 12:14:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Or planetary bombardement could be designed not to destroy structures but to neutralize them something like the factory won't work for 1 turn and mabye some income reduction from that planet.
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JamesACG
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #10 March 29, 2006 2:09:26 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The thing is, when it comes to the actual invasion part, the idea of planetary bombardment (not talking about the actual mass driver bombardment) is arguably abstracted as simply part of the invasion process (and the mass driver bombardment being an extra version of it I guess).

It's fine to say it's extracted during invasion - so presumably this wouldn't make us need any fewer transports. The problem is there are times I want to actually damage the enemy without having to plan the logistics of an actual invasion (where I need to have the transports, protect the transports, plus have the ships to devote to defense after the planet is taken).
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Chris Williamson
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #11 March 29, 2006 2:25:56 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Man... I thought this was going to be about eating babies to curb famine...


Bravo! What a great essay, was it by Swift? Its been a while since I've read it (at least those dammned Irish have stopped breeding )
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Sorael
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #12 March 29, 2006 2:47:59 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'm of the opinion that having to sacrifice your own citizens to conquer enemy planets helps limit the effectiveness of military conquest, thereby keeping the various ways to achieve victory in balance. Having ships destroy colonies from orbit would ultimately slow the game down a lot and would probably end up causing a great deal of frustration.

Blockades on the other hand make a lot of sense, as long as they don't end up confering to great and advantage to the attackers.
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Trollificus
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #13 March 29, 2006 3:21:10 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Yes, it was Swift. And there are some good ideas here...

1) Option to just blast the hell out of a planet rather than 'invade', decreasing output, morale, population.
%) Option to "Blockade", using regular fighter ships or special ships? Reduces to 0 all output to opponent's empire.
a) Option to research/develop DEATH STAR. Boo yah!! Ultimate EVILE!! Completely wipe out planet, with across-the-board negative consequenses for one's relations with other empires. IF this were to be implemented, it would have to have an effect on 'negotiations' with the other races.

Note that none of the above would require transports full of marines.

also, re: troops deducted from population. Ummm....your marines are people, no way around that. Now, if we wanted a 'cyber-troop' option somewhere on the research tree...NON-HUMAN troops...that would be cool, and not deducted from the planteary population. OR...artificial genetic creations, 'grown' from organic material. OR...ZOMBIE MARINES!!...undead, of course, NOT taken from your population...okay, maybe that's a bit out-of-genre....
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JamesACG
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #14 March 29, 2006 10:36:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes, it was Swift. And there are some good ideas here...

1) Option to just blast the hell out of a planet rather than 'invade', decreasing output, morale, population.
%) Option to "Blockade", using regular fighter ships or special ships? Reduces to 0 all output to opponent's empire.
a) Option to research/develop DEATH STAR. Boo yah!! Ultimate EVILE!! Completely wipe out planet, with across-the-board negative consequenses for one's relations with other empires. IF this were to be implemented, it would have to have an effect on 'negotiations' with the other races.

Note that none of the above would require transports full of marines.

also, re: troops deducted from population. Ummm....your marines are people, no way around that. Now, if we wanted a 'cyber-troop' option somewhere on the research tree...NON-HUMAN troops...that would be cool, and not deducted from the planteary population. OR...artificial genetic creations, 'grown' from organic material. OR...ZOMBIE MARINES!!...undead, of course, NOT taken from your population...okay, maybe that's a bit out-of-genre....


Ahhh Swift.

But yes topic at hand. I do think allowing the attacker in orbit to damage but not severely would be a reasonable course. Blockading (say blockign 90% of the output to the rest of the empire - blasted smugglers and random happenings!) would be a reasonable addition too.

And thank you, for pointing out: Of course the troops come from the population. I think our soldiers would be upset to hear they didn't count as American citizens (and keep in mind, they still pay taxes too... huh I suppose they pay for part of their salaries....).

And while I wish there was a "Blow Up Planet" option, I can accept they didn't want to put it in. I don't like not being able to completely remove all traces of an opponent's civilization, but fine. I'll go with it.


Now if I could drop a bomb on enemy planets that would cause their deceased to rise up as zombies... man.... that would make it the greatest game ever made as far as I'm concerned.

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Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #15 March 30, 2006 1:21:11 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I don't think warships should be able to do this, but orbital bombardment is fine for an invasion tactic. I like the improvements ideas though. This doesn't seem unbalancing, just mitigating some of the potential damage at a cost of usable tiles + resources/time to build improvements.
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skam240
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #16 March 30, 2006 1:58:36 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Man... I thought this was going to be about eating babies to curb famine...


...and I was hoping to learn how to make fine ladies gloves out of baby skin.
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Lightworker
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #17 March 30, 2006 10:06:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Gal Civ could ALSO copy some of the ideas used in Imperium Galactica 2. A Small Orbital Starbase, with a module limit of 8, could be used as a defensive bastion. Give it shields and Point Defence etc..

Just saw the post in here about the Mass Drivers and Gas Warfare.... If anyone has read Battlefield Earth (L. Ron Hubbard) then a FMV sequence of a Giant, scary looking Gas Drone slowly roaming the planet dropping Gas canisters everywhere would be really funny and COOL!
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Lightworker
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #18 March 30, 2006 10:13:39 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Oh yes, how about an FMV for the Mini Soldiers PML - The idea of some tiny little beggers running through the grass had me in stitches... Just think, evil looking version of the film Toy Soldiers, and you'll see what I mean!
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