Neilo Neilo

MVL Round 3

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MVL Round 3

"The Metaverse League"

from GalCiv2 Forums
Hi guys welcome to round 3 of the League. We have a few streamlining rules this round so be sure to check them out below. If of course we feel that there are not to our liking then we can change at the end of the round, but i think we are on top of most of the bugs now and things should go more smoothly. I will point out though that there is 1 rule that i will put in place this round that can be thrown out mid round.

"in the instance of a notified and accepted non-submital, not a "no show", in a 4 man team, a back up game will be allowed to be played be a fellow team member. That fellow team member will be randomally assigned by either myself or Firebender. A non submital with no explantion or prior notification will not be granted this privilage."

Ok here is the rule changes for round 3,

Team Bonus

Fastest team game time (average) 2 BP
2nd fastest team game time (average) 1 BP

Highest team score (average) 2 BP
2nd highest team score (average) 1 BP

Individual Bonus

For this round ( the different victory types),

1 BP for fastest and highest game per victory type.

No penalty's.

All ties, in both team and individual and in both speed and score categories, receive equal points.

Where's a score is dropped in any given team, that score, though no longer eligable for the MVL submission points are still eligable for any BP they may have achieved.

Averages are calculated from the totals of submitted games divided by number of members in the team. If a player gives advanced notice of his inability to submit a game then that player will not be counted as a member of the team for purposes of calculating averages.

I will before the end of this round post a new thread that will be the MVL Rule Book. Where these changes and the rest of the rules will be outlined, but do refram from posting in that thread please.

The teams as of round 3 are,

The A-Team (A)
Pndrev
Piznit
Dethadder
Xei Win Toh
Ferrel
Dystopic

The Blade Runners (B)
Neilo
TGE
Ghostwes
MarshallOneill
Vilgan
Noctilucus

Celestial Crusaders (C)
Playjeff45
Mumblefratz
The Butterfly
Firebender
Silverbeacher

The Domination of Death (D)
Brezelius
Mottikhan
Shadow Worrior
Elwood011
Kzinti

And now round 3, and Firebender this should make you happy.

Each team is required to submit a victory in each of the 4 different conditions. Your team captain will assign each player a victory condition to complete.

3 opponents on a Medium map.

Habitable Planets - common
Planets - abundant
Stars - rare
Anomolies - abundant
Asteroids - rare (DA)
Tech Rate - normal
Density - Lose clusters

Random minors
All victory conditions enabled
Allow Surrenders
Tech trading on
Super abilities off
Blind exploration off
Mega Events enabled

For team B, which has 5 players, the captain should assign his 4 team mates 4 different victorys and then play a game attempting a victory condition of his own choosing. Now we never really discussed what happens next but my proposal is that the two games that are the same, the captains choice and one of his players, these games could be combined and averaged to give us 1 game instead of two. Provided they are both victories. This is not in concrete but a suggestion.

The other way we could go is to leave it up to the team in question to decide which game to sumbit.

Either way have fun with round 3 guys and i hope these new rule changes work out well for us.

Good luck,

The Commissioner.

metaverse
75,642 views 265 replies
Reply #176 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You can submit as many games as you wish to the MV but once you submit a game to the current round's thread you cannot submit another.


wow now hold your horses. the only reason i did screen shots in here was because the whole deal kind of snowballed from the error 16 issue. i think i clearly said in reply #102:

heh thanks. it was just sort of a "practice game" when i started it. i think i can do better before the round ends.


i wasn't even on a team, in fact when i started the game i hadn't even made up my mind to join the MVL. i'd have thought after that comment, since it occurred before the "definative screenshoots" in #114, someone would have replied, "oh, well in that case don't worry about it for this game; don't post a score in the current round forum unless you want it to be your final submission." i was just doing an MV game on the current round's settings as a test drive, and the error 16 was just sort of a random issue that came up along the way, and i never realized posting screen shots on here would constitute a submission. did the person last round realize this? and was he in the same situation (in a state of limbo before being assigned a team)? frankly, had i had a team at that point i probably would have done that in their forum rather than playing my hand.

well, in either respect i'll honor a final ruling on this from neilo or firebender (no offense, mumble  )

edit: well, i re-read the ruling last round more thoroughly, and i realize i probably don't need to wait for a ruling. still, i wish i'd have known posting in this thread would constitute a submission   for what it's worth i never, at least to my recollection, declared my previous game a submission, except by turn of phrase when i put my newer game up and said "replace my previous submission." the rules are the rules in any regard
Reply #177 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well, in either respect i'll honor a final ruling on this from neilo or firebender (no offense, mumble )



Screenshots are a viable way to report a game. When I had Error 12 I used screenshots to report my rather weak game. Before I go any further, this decision is not in support for the Crusaders as I can assure you, we have managed to secure a vital advantage over the other teams. If only you had our private forum password and you would really see...

Ok, that previous submittal had no direct reference to it being a submission. And you were not part of Team A at the time. But it was considered a submission by both you and everyone else(and is recorded in my list of submissions although I'm not saying it can't be changed). I don't see any rules saying that you can't complete a game before you're part of a team.

So your previous submission counts towards the MVL. Its only one year and about 100 points difference.
Anyone against this?

-Fire
SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #178 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I normally get outvoted so... I am for the second submission by Dstopic. It was an honest mistake.
Reply #179 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well, in either respect i'll honor a final ruling on this from neilo or firebender (no offense, mumble )

Certainly, no problem. So will I.

i wish i'd have known posting in this thread would constitute a submission

Clearly there is a bit of confusion surrounding your post due to both the fact that you're new to the league and the error 16 thing. However, with that said I would have to say it was clear that your post #99 wasn't a submission but I don't see how reply #114 could be seen as anything but a submission. Also note that Ferrel's reply #79 was dangerously close to a submission but it was clear from context that he was "drawn offsides". You may have a legitimate argument on this basis as well, but as you say this would be up to FireBender or Neilo and for exception to rule it would be best if it was Neilo that made such a pronouncement.

for what it's worth i never, at least to my recollection, declared my previous game a submission,

I don't believe that we have ever required people to explicitly declare a posted game as their final submission. AFAIK it's the act of posting game results to this thread that constitutes a submission, not any declaration. Also from my understanding you could post a game to this thread and even though you may explicitly state that this was "practice" or that you were working on another game and we would still have to count that as your "submission".

and said "replace my previous submission."

This is what actually caused me to look back and see what you we're talking about, but again this "declaration" has really no bearing on anything one way or another.

the rules are the rules in any regard

This is actually the crux of the matter. It's not fair to whomever's game we disallowed last round to apply the rule one way that time and another way this time.

As you mentioned, Neilo posted your assignment to team A in this thread in reply #118 which is after you "submitted" your game in reply #114. Also you may have legitimate argument that you were drawn offsides into making a submission before you understood the ramifications of doind so. These are both reasonable arguments, however on the face of it we have a clear violation of rule that would require an exception to be made in this explicit case. Certainly such exception cannot be made without Commissioner approval. In fact IIRC in the one case similar to this FireBender did make such an exception to a rule only to be quickly over-ruled by Neilo along with a slight admonition, again IIRC. That's why I would suggest to be totally unambiguous we would need a ruling from Neilo himself to allow exception to established rule. However, requiring compliance to established rule can (and should) be done by anyone that notices a potential violation.

I hope you don't think this has any motivation besides fairness. If it was up to me I think I'd be willing to err on the side of the arguments you've made, however if history is any guide then this result is unlikely. In any case I, and I'm sure everyone else, will be happy to accept any decision Neilo makes in this regard.
Reply #180 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Perhaps we should at least be aware of the potential 1 year, 1050 point difference and make note of whether or not this results in any eventual difference to the final outcome. I for one would not feel particularly proud to have won anything as a result of this decision. Perhaps I'll add a year and subtract 1050 points from my submission in sympathy.
Reply #181 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is a different case than before and i will review the circumstances surrounding and rule soon.

Just thought though that i should point out a few things, I know i have not been around alot lately due to work and limited net access so many of the new players may not know me.

I am Neilo, THE commissioner, Fire is the vice commissioner and sorts out scoring. I take care of rules and rounds and act as our judge for lack of a better term. As mumble said...

In fact IIRC in the one case similar to this FireBender did make such an exception to a rule only to be quickly over-ruled by Neilo along with a slight admonition, again IIRC.


This is how i remember that event also, along with the dressing down of fire for over stepping his bounds. Please guys do not think i am power hungary and see myself as the supreme ruler or anything like that, but we must retain some kind of "president" if you like, otherwise we would have too many cooks. If someone wishes the job thats fine too, change is good, no doubt.

So guys and fire, in cases like this please assume nothing untill you have heard from me, rest assured i always go with the majority or any precedents on an issue. My job is to make everyone happy, nothing else...

I will read over these events and be back soon.

The Commish.

Reply #182 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Guys, after reading the posts i come to this conclusion,

In post 99 Dystopic makes no claim that this is his submission. So i discount this.

In posts made thereafter, 114 in particular every effort was made to validate the early submission. This is the point at which i see this as a MVL submission.

So once again i must overule fire and dis-allow this re-submission to the league.

I will point out though that this case is very different from the other precedent we have, cause i will admit there is plenty of grey area here in question, and the ruling could have gone either way easily, but in fairness to the other player who had a game dis-allowed i feel this is the better way to go.

In no way Dystopic is this any slight against you and i hope you don't take offence. If not for the incident in the last round i would gladly have allowed your game. I do hope you continue playing as you have landed two very good scores, either of which i would have been happy to get.

Sorry to overrule you again Firebender but you steeped onto thin ice again, please don't be offended but leave these ruling's to the Commissioner please.

Moving on, it does appear the dead line for round 3 will beat me to getting a game in. My net is suposed to be on by end of buisness friday the 12th. If so i will be fine. If not i will post back and have to reluctantly forfiet my participation for round 3.

I apologize to my fellow Blade Runners in advance.

The Commish.
Reply #184 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In no way Dystopic is this any slight against you and i hope you don't take offence.


none in the least, and i meant it in total sincerity when i said i'd wait for your ruling. i think you reviewed the case fairly, and in hindsight i did myself get caught up in a sort of zeal about getting involved (not to mention finally finishing an MV game haha), that i didn't stop to think "hey, this is just a test game, i shouldn't bother going through all this effort if i'm pretty sure i can do better." not to put myself on a cross for future new recruits or anything, but this will at least provide a good example of what can happen when new members get a bit ahead of themselves  
Reply #185 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
So once again i must overule fire and dis-allow this re-submission to the league.


Sorry to overrule you again Firebender but you steeped onto thin ice again, please don't be offended but leave these ruling's to the Commissioner please

Actually in this case FireBender simply upheld the rule which is a very legitimate thing for him to do lacking any direct exception made by you. In this case his actions were totally proper.

Perhaps you mis-read his post when he said

So your previous submission counts towards the MVL.

He was saying that the first submission did count which all would agree is merely enforcing current rule and not making exception to rule.

As I mentioned, I think it's totally proper for any member to point out violations of rule and to suggest that rules be followed which is all FireBender did in this case.

We do all agree that there can be grey areas and extenuating circumstances that may need to be considered. However, we really can't afford discussions and potential argument in the middle of a round. That's a big part of having a Commissioner, to have someone vested with the power to make reasonable decision without the need for major discussion or argument. In this case the system worked exactly as it should have with everyone (except Playjeff but what else is new, just kidding ) behaving correctly.

Anyway I think I can safely state another rule and that is that only The Commissioner (currently Neilo) can make an exception to an established rule.
Reply #186 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Perhaps you mis-read his post when he said


Indeed i did.

My apologies to Fire. Hope no harm was done.

I have worked now for some 30 odd days straight doing 14 and 12 hour shifts, i am currently in the midst of the last of these, so if i could be excused for not reading the thread right i would of course be appreciative.

If offence has been taken then it is my fault and no others. Again sorry mate...

The Commish.
Reply #187 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
if i could be excused for not reading the thread right i would of course be appreciative

No prob m8.
Reply #188 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Good news everyone,

Quotation of reply #13 of the MV League Empire thread.
Added to AM, should appear on next update.


Either this means that the MVL is getting into the Altmeta or that the MV League Empire is getting into the Altmeta.

Its most probably the latter rather then the former but since the AltMeta collects data from the Metaverse directly it might not be the former rather then the latter.


Hmmm, this isn't much of a proper announcement, is it?
Reply #189 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My submission for Round 3 for Team C

Boilermaker

MV Submission date 10/4/07 9:58:52pm

Military Conquest Victory
Game Time: 1 year
Score: 15,400
Reply #190 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
at fire:

This means the MVL leage empire is registered at altmeta, so your altmeta characters show up there with their current score - and maybe maybe the empire as well one day.


at silver:
now we have it white on black - you are a worthy crusader!
Reply #191 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A bit late again...

Didn't have time to play another game, so I hope just this once (due to the error 16 problems) a submission based on endgame screenshots will be fine.

Character: Prostatnic Vogon Jeltz
Date: 11.10.07 (well, originally 2 weeks ago, but...)
Type: Diplomatic Victory
Difficulty: Normal
Points: 4590
Years: 4 (the game DOES start in 2226, right?)


I just realized... 4 years would be the quickest victory on that difficulty for me.




Reply #192 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well I have been drinking again, sorry. I was overruled again about DysTopic, Thanks for pointing that out Mumble   Welcome bace Neilo. Good game to the last one submitted. The two Canadian drivers in Nascar will Kick some butt. I will start watching more or that type of racing. Sorry if I offended any Southern Americans.... And if I did... Go F##k Yourself. (On The NASCAR THING)
Reply #193 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here's my submission for Round 3, Team A

Character: 4 20
MV Submission Date: 9/30/2007 11:15:42 PM
Victory Type: Military Conquest
Game Years: 5
Score: 31150

Here's the link to my 4 20 character

4 20

Reply #194 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Guys, just a quick generic post i am putting on most of our threads so no-one misses it..cheers.

We are getting a lot of new players and it is hard for me to keep up at the moment due to my time off, i am back now and will get things in order for round 4.

What i am going to do is a MVL Player Confirmation thread. I will list all names in there that i know of that are participating in round 4, if i miss anyone please post in that thread and advise me.

Also we will have to shuffle the teams a bit, and dare i say it...add a team f maybe!!

Whilst on the topic of round 4, does anyone believe any rule changes are needed? I will admit to being around alot for round 3 but everything seemed to go well. Please drop me a line or post somewhere if you think we need a change.

Looking forward to round 4...

The Commish.
Reply #195 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Firebender, Mumblefratz....

I have breezed through the threads and i think i am up to speed again. Is there anything in particular that i should be aware of regarding the League?

Thanks guys, pm me any info if you like.

Cheers
The Commish.
Reply #197 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Firebender, Mumblefratz....

I have breezed through the threads and i think i am up to speed again. Is there anything in particular that i should be aware of regarding the League?

Thanks guys, pm me any info if you like.

Cheers
The Commish.


Although I agree that each player has made an equal contribution. IMHO(I.I.R.C.T.I.F.U.A.A.L.T.O.), if any of those 24 different individual players who have separate and real lives have something come up and they can't submit then that puts their team at a serious disadvantage.

In Round 2 if Team D had even another submission +2 MVL points bonus then they would have tied with the Crusaders for first place(pf...as if).

-Fire


Reply #198 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Although I agree that each player has made an equal contribution. IMHO(I.I.R.C.T.I.F.U.A.A.L.T.O.), if any of those 24 different individual players who have separate and real lives have something come up and they can't submit then that puts their team at a serious disadvantage.


Not totally sure what FireBender is getting at here but I'm guessing it's that we should be a bit careful in the pending reorganization and try to have a little "slack" by having teams with 5 members.

If so then I agree. I don't think it's wise to immediately go with 6 teams of 4. I think 5 teams where 4 have a 5th player might be a better approach. Let's see that everyone is able to submit for this round before we assume that we don't lose a person or two.

Also we should pause for a few days at least between rounds to get readjusted to new teams and add a new forum at the Core and get new passwords for the forums we do have.

We should also see how people feel about ties being unbroken or not after we've tried leaving them unbroken this time.
Reply #199 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I figured I should submit this now or I might miss my chance. It's about 3k less than I estimated it would be in our team forum. (Sorry, team mates).



I'll be out of pocket for a while now. I should still be able to participate in round 4 though.