YOR Super Ability has to change

While you do make a good point, but most people who buy DA will have already played Galciv 2.

Echoing Jeff Graw, most people playing an expansion probably bought the original game first.

I agree it's a little much, just the three moves. A percentage would seem to be a much better solution, but coding that kinda thing could be a bear with having to account for different ships with different speeds. Late in the game though, I think taking a transport from 85 moves to 3 is a quite extreme.

I'm not sure it's too much. The whole feel of DA is that ships are much, much slower. Engines are larger and more expensive, granted these numbers are just placeholders and will be adjusted, but...

I for one am against any concessions made simply for the sake of new players, I've seen way too many games ruined by being 'dumbed down for the newbs'.

I like the Yor ability the way it is, god forbid you may actually have to adapt your attack plan for a single opponent... You know you can also change/disable the super ability for any race? or just dont select Yor as an opponent.

To me the Yor ability is no more unbalanced than the single turn factories, first strike, or super breeder abilities.

Variety is the spice of life. I went down from 21 movement points a turn to 3 when I went through Yor space. I thought is was cool, from the standpoint of different super abilities. I agree that is is not any different than having the super hiver, first strike, and superbreeder abilities. It's part of the game. It adds strategic depth. How are we going to deal with the Yor? You can create your custome race and choose the Yor's ability as your own and screw any invasion fleets, maybe. Right now I'm playing a game where that's the Yor's only benefit because I am ahead of them tech wise. They are getting squished.

OMG it's like a SUPER Ability.

... speeds. Late in the game though, I think taking a transport from 85 moves to 3 is a quite extreme.

One could argue that any transport capable of traveling 85 parsecs per turn is pretty extreme.

Why are you guys so quick to complain when a race gets a powerful defensive ability, especially when there exists powerful enough offensive abilities to warrent something this powerful. The Arceans get pre-emptive strike which allows them to destroy all enemy ships without them getting to return fire. The Korath get their spore ships which can capture a planet and move on and possible capture a dozen more in the same turn. Those two abilities retain their full power outside of Yor space. Is it a bad thing if the Yor want to protect themselves from such overwhelming power.

Another thing to consider is: Would the slow down even matter if it became 50%? The transports could still move 42 parsecs per turn, which is fast enough to deal some pretty extreme damage. The spore ships could overwhelm all planets that are on the outer two sectors of Yor territory. The Arceans could possibly destroy all of the Yor ships before they could shoot back in that same distance. That 50% slow down might only buy the Yor a couple of extra turns before their demise, instead providing them with a possible means to survive.

The max travel speed of 3 parsecs per turn puts the Yor on equal footing with the spore ships and pre-emptive strike. Both abilities forces you to think twice if you really want to pick a fight with them, so why shouldn't the Yor get something too. Besides, it slow down effect doesn't work outside of their space, so leave the poor Yor alone.

P.S. I don't recall the Yor normally have extremely large areas of influence. So unless you are at war with them, you could probally fly around their territory.

P.S. Yes, I do often play as the Yor.

I for one am against any concessions made simply for the sake of new players, I've seen way too many games ruined by being 'dumbed down for the newbs'.

I find that more often than not, 4x games are ruined by designers adding every little feature they think is 'kind of cool' and bogging the game down to a crawl for the player. I do agree that in a lot of other genres games can be ruined by guning for the lowest common denominator (take mechassault vs. mech warrior 2), but I've never seen this be the case in 4x.

Solutions are not the issue as I clearly stated - they are easy enough, dont play the YOR in a game, which I now dont - hit em hard at a narrow point of the boarder going for the high value influence planets to zap the AOI, which I did as a last time of playing them. The solutions are not an issue - there are many of them.

If the ability was an intrinsic part of the game I would agree that reduction is going down the dumbing down road, which is never a good idea. I dont believe it can be viewed as an intrinsic part of the game when it slows it incredibly for what will be seen as an obvious game mechanic. But even that is not my main issue with this.

As stated above is purely the effect on new gamers, it will cause a problem, games live or die by the grapevine - and I firmly believe this 'feature' will be vilified by new players to the detriment of the games rep, which would be an immense pity as its arguably the best TBS released for a long time.

Time will tell I guess ...... now back to the Beta   

Regards
Zy

I for one am against any concessions made simply for the sake of new players, I've seen way too many games ruined by being 'dumbed down for the newbs'.

I suppose GalCiv 2 should be display in a completely made up language that you have to learn just to be able to play then? Darn "newbs" and not already knowing that language.

Ending a turn is too easy in GalCiv, all you have to do is press a button. You should have to play an extremely difficult mini game puzzle just to get the right to end the turn. The real players would already have the answers solved and memorized.

Heck, why is the interface even visible, it's not like I don't know where the buttons are already! Darn newbs and not having a pixel-perfect memory of the interface.

*ahem*

games live or die by the grapevine - and I firmly believe this 'feature' will be vilified by new players to the detriment of the games rep

Right... seems like that a single unbalanced feature of a playable race might actually attract players. Of course, it is a single player game...

That said, I see the real problem here is that "everyone" is too used to using very, very fast ships and utterly destroying the AI in a single turn or so, even on a very large galaxy when they have a lot of ships.

To me... a TRUELY new player would not be used to using very fast ships and would actually adapt better to the ability than people who have been playing the game since the retail release version, imho. Or at least adapt to it without complaining as much.

That said, a small Influence penalty SHOULD be applied to the Super Isolationist ability, just to restrict how far the AOE will really go. The speed reduction as currently is essentially necessary for it to work as intended.

You can always disable the yor; say if you'r playing a metaverse game and not the campaign I suppose.

I really do not see it affecting new players as much as the OP has claimed. Main reason is you can simply choose the races you play against.

Since I do not have DA maybe I do not have a right to comment but, In my humble opinion, the races should not be, and are not "equal". Makes the game replay ability that much more potent.

You can also edit the Yor and give them a different ability if you don't like it. Super Spy might be a good alternative, after all, it shouldn't be too hard to spot enemy spies in a race of machines. He's the one wearing cardboard boxes and painted silver. You could also use influence bases to shrink their territory.

Super Spy might be a good alternative, after all, it shouldn't be too hard to spot enemy spies in a race of machines. He's the one wearing cardboard boxes and painted silver.

That makes me ROFL...

personnaly I think this one is OK, IMO the one which is owerpowered (only for human playres not AIs) is Hiver (or whatever its called) - the one which garants you every factory is build in 1 turn...

He's the one wearing cardboard boxes and painted silver.

Ever see Number 6 or are you not a Battlestar Galactica fan

I think the ability is fine. If anything, I would include a influence penalty in the super-ability in order to make it a little less powerful and since it fits with them being isolationists.
And since it might be confusing to new players, I would suggest a pop-up window explaining the Yor super-ability the first time the player enters his influence.
And also super-ability descriptions somewhere on the Foreign Policy-screen.

I suppose GalCiv 2 should be display in a completely made up language that you have to learn just to be able to play then? Darn "newbs" and not already knowing that language. Ending a turn is too easy in GalCiv, all you have to do is press a button. You should have to play an extremely difficult mini game puzzle just to get the right to end the turn. The real players would already have the answers solved and memorized. Heck, why is the interface even visible, it's not like I don't know where the buttons are already! Darn newbs and not having a pixel-perfect memory of the interface.

Lets just remove all the challenge from the game so that nobody will ever 'lose'. And any ol random button mashing will result in a 'win'. Every time you manage press the turn button it should give you a cookie and tell you your special so you can rock back and forth in your chair and clap and make noises like a sea lion.

Then lets all exagerate what our fellow posters have said so that we can all act like jackasses.

Lets just remove all the challenge from the game so that nobody will ever 'lose'.

In best Romper Room voice"Everyone's A Winner."  

heh... but seriously, I was one of the complainers. After delving a little deeper in to the beta, It's kinda cool and no more imbalancing than any other super(which are, like others have said "The reason they are super."). I'm already working a strat for it. A narrow corridor through the middle of their space with influence bases. Taking care not to get them close enough to any actually planets, so they don't complain. It's like a highway and ships just get off on "exits" at the sector they are attacking. Then hop back on when needing to go any distance.

For those to young to know Romper Room. Think Barney with an annoying woman, instead of an annoying dinosaur  

I must admit that the in my second game was the first time the Yor where around.

I had a large tech lead beacuse of trading and 50% resources going in to tech.
So i invaded the minor races took them over Then Thalan. Flew my ships into Yor space. My Fleet within striking distance and my Transports a turn behind but now well with Yor space but a turn away from my juicy target.So i happily attack wipe out defenders End Turn.

Next turn try to move to next target planet and realise i only move 3 What the Heck?
My Transports only move 3 and now a couple turns from invasion. End Turn in confusion. And sure enough thier little ships flew out and picked off all 3 transport fleets. I was so ticked. Thought the 3 movement was a bug restarted the game 2 times same thing. Finally dawned on me it was a super ability causing the slow down.

Side Note: You can fly in top speed anywhere in Yor space before you attack so one tactic I found was bring in War Fleet and Transport at same time, Opening attack. then move them same time same tile so you have protection.

I like the super ability the way it is I think it is a great defensive idea.

I like the super ability the way it is I think it is a great defensive idea

i second that

i think it is a great ability! one you would want to know about before you invade or it would come as a big shock

Ever see Number 6 or are you not a Battlestar Galactica fan

Of course I am, though I prefer Sharon myself. You've got it backwards, it's not a machine pretending to be organic, it's an organic pretending to be a machine.   

I don't have the beta yet, but 2 things occur to me:

1. Pre-position the majority of your warships inside Yor territory, and capture as many planets as possible on the first turn of the assault.



>>Semi off topic aside: I did that sort of thing in a CivIII game...I prepositioned my forces outside the enemy territory, and then parachuted in alot of my forces. The enemy country went from occupying 2/3s of a large continent with maybe...15 or 20 major cities...to being wiped out in 3 turns. It was all about the planning. >>>



2. If you've got ships that have a move of 42 or 80 or whatever, that would seem to me that taking off all those engines and replacing them with weapons and defenses would make those ships nearly invincible. Slow, but invicible. So make a ship with a move of...oh, 12? Maybe? (I'd just make it with a move of 3 and forget it) Use the extra space for weapons and defenses and laugh as the Yor try to stop the new super ships.



[uber ship captain] "This ship has armor thicker than 3 battleships." "What? 300 [really powerful missile or torpedo weapon] incoming? Eek! It might scratch the paint job!" [/uber ship captain]



Yeah...sit back and enjoy the carnage...slow motion style   

On the plus side, any race can build a military starbase and equip it with a warp disruptor to achieve a similar (but not super) effect. So, although you might have to spend a bit of money, you can slow your opponent down to a crawl if he's planning a counterstrike.

On the plus side, any race can build a military starbase and equip it with a warp disruptor to achieve a similar (but not super) effect. So, although you might have to spend a bit of money, you can slow your opponent down to a crawl if he's planning a counterstrike.

Does the Super ability and the starbase effects stack, possibly reducing you to a minimum of 1 space per turn?