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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

Setting the record straight

from GalCiv2 Forums

Digg is reporting that a website is implying that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated.  Absolutely not! Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.

This got started because sales reports on Galactic Civilizations II have been much higher than anticipated. We've now outsold the first Galactic Civilizations in North America in the first 10 days. Last week we were apparently the #1 PC game at Walmart. 

Naturally, some peple have taken the conclusion that because we don't have copy protection on our game, that we invite piracy. That is not the case, we simply think there are other ways to stop piracy than CD checks, strict DRM, etc.

What we do is provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.

Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once.

How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?

Our company also makes utility software. We've been around a long time -- 14 years now. Our software gets pirated. We don't like it but piracy is a fact of life. And not every pirated copy means a lost sale.

The question isn't about eliminating piracy, it's about increasing sales. It's about trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it. 

Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates.

If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy.

We realize that some people or companies might feel threatened at any evidence that implies that draconian DRM schemes or CD copy protection may not make that big of a difference in sales. 

For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.

All software is pirated, there's no way around it. We've been making software for over 10 years.  We don't like our software being pirated.  Like I said, every lost sales has an impact on us.  But there are other ways to reduce it than through draconian copy protection systems.

Incidentally, the site that Starforce's forum admin linked to "prove" how much our software was being pirated we visited, followed the instructions on the site to get our game removed and the links were removed within a couple of hours.  We'll continue to follow-up with them.

Update: Starforce has removed the URL to the illegal files.

Update: View follow-up.

523,896 views 309 replies
Reply #151 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
http://www.glop.org/starforce/#games

I have sold Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and will not purchase any game using Starforce on it. I have written to Activision who responded they have no further plans to use this meathod of cp. UBISOFT is the biggest user, and they are also arrogant about it stating that anyone having trouble with SF are pirates or crackers. I was banned from UBISOFT's Forums for discussing SF there. I called them directly and got no response and no response from 8 emails sent to them at different departments.

Lockdown has SF, Ghost 3 has it....I will not support SF products and I have written off UBISOFT. I do not need them and with devs like Stardock I hope more join their smart thinking. I purchased Gal Civ 2 without ever playing a demo or the first one. I support smart dev teams in this time of idiots, marketing and intrusive potentially damaging copy protection.

I have no trouble with alternatives...safedisk, securerom etc but no copy protection works for me. I do not pirate but I like the fact I do not need to find a no cd to get the performance out of a game that it was designed to have before the cd check etc.

I am also promoting Gal Civ 2 to everyone I know at www.videogamereview.com as they are all about games for gamers. Some agree with my stance...others think SF is blown out of proportion but all in all I stand by what I believe and I believe things have gone too far. I payed for the software...it may be their ip but it is my computer ..period.
Reply #152 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
humbly bowing down to the GC2-team for dumping copyprotection .
this a great idea and the sole reason why i'll be rushing to a local gamestore first thing tomorrow and buy the game.
sole reason because at this point thats all i know about the game
i dont even care if i discover i dont like it, money well spent in anny case.

as for those egocentric idiots at starforce: where's al-quaida when u need 'm éh
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #153 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well i just ripped of an email to ubisoft stating that i would not be purchasing homm5 because of starforce but judging by your post barzenak it looks like i will get no reply or be accused of pirating! oh well its their loss
Reply #154 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have not read the entire current list 145 posts but I imagine that they all echo the same sentiment of approval and support. Regardless, I think it's important to add my voice to the crowd because attitudes such as that of Stardock towards (or rather against) hardware copy protection needs to be applauded!!!

Treating paying customers well and not as potential criminals DOES help your sales and offset piracy! However, the real proof is in the pudding. While supporting comments are all well and good - I'm off to vote with my wallet too! I'm at the online checkout right now and will be a a happy GalCiv2 owner in a few short minutes!

THANKS STARDOCK! Good quality products and excellent treatment of your customers as *earned* my $$$ and good will!
Reply #155 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And we will strengthen the administration of the forum to keep it clear from similar links posted by forum members and others.


I believe your (company) policies that focus around concepts that "strengthen" is the reason your company is in trouble in the first place.
Reply #156 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I accept your apologies for this time if i ever read about something similar to what happened there I wont accept your apologies anymore and you're better watch your admins better.
Reply #157 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
From Starforce:


In the end, on behalf of the whole StarForce I would like to tender our apologies to all people, who have been working on creation of the game Galactic Civilizations II. We have to officially claim that what has happened is just a mistake of our employee that was boosted into “our planned PR action” by the people, who hate StarForce. Using this link, he just wanted to show that every non-protected game can be cracked (in case of some own simple protection) or just put onto the internet resource for public use, sooner or later. I think he guessed that finding the first link to a recent non-protected game would be the best proof. We have to accept that he chose the wrong way for that, but he is just a human and mistakes are human’s nature.

This employee has been responsible for the branch “General questions” during this week, that’s why nobody else had seen this topic and couldn’t remove the links till we heard negative references from different sources.

We have to claim that this has been the first and the last time we allowed posting a link to a resource with illegal content on our forum by our staff. And we will strengthen the administration of the forum to keep it clear from similar links posted by forum members and others.

In further we will necessarily improve our Forum, especially its rules and policy.

Please, once again accept our deepest apologies for inconveniences caused by this issue.[/qoute]





Link


Edit: I can't get the qoute function to work. I'm not from Starforce.
Reply #158 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just browsed the GameSpot Forums and the whole issue here also entered the "Please warn about StarForce in Reviews" thread.

Hehe, SF really blew it this time!
Reply #159 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I bought the game for the sole reason you dont treat me like a criminal. That in itself is worth the price of this amazing game.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Reply #160 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Stardock has always put the customer first. As a customer I have yet to regret a purchase from Stardock. As a skinner in training, I value their support of the skinning community, as well the gaming community. Every online community i have seen S.D. delve in to has been enriched by the constant support and inovative ideas Brad and the stardockians bring with them..Kudos to S.D. for treating their customers as honest People and not "potential criminals"...




Reply #162 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I am not a fan of strategy games prefering flight sims and fps personaly.. That said, I am going to buy a copy.. I prolly will give it to my kid or brother in law..
We must vote our wallets, and buying games that refuse to use overly invasive copy protection schemes while refusing to buy the others that do is the only way to put an end to it.. And let everyone know why you voted as you did
by aggressively posting in as many message boards as possible..

Just so everyone can put my post in perspective, I am not unbiased in this.. I hate starforce....
Reply #163 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I registered on this site just to say how much I agree with you.

Starforce BROKE my computer in the past. I had to reformat my system just to get the CD ROM drives to show up. It's pathetic!

But thanks to quality developers that support the community, piracy goes down. Thank you for being one of these developers. I'm afraid to play the big name games because they break my system, and make me hunt down CDs.
Reply #164 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
you should "follow up" with them by suing them.

Reply #165 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Starforce are both stupid and evil, the quicker they fail the better. Though I'm glad the game is selling well.
Reply #166 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hmm cant someone make a post on the Heroes of might and magic 5 forum about this incident? I would make a long post about all the things starforce has done to prove that they are not to be supported but since my primary language isnt english I don't think I would be able to write it good enough. I would really want to buy HOMM5 especially since the developers actually listened to the community and postponed the game release for a month just so the game would be better at release but theres no way that Im buying a game with starforce, never have and never will.
Reply #167 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The post will probably be deleted and the peson who've done that post banned like the one who got banned for talking about starforce on the ubisoft forum.
Reply #168 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
IT would have been nice if in their "apology" they could have gone the whole thing without again brushing off the incident as part of the vast conspiracy by organized pirates against them. Indeed, THEIR mistake/criminally negligent attack was part of a "planned action" by all the people who "hate" them.


You dont have to be a pirate to not want Starforce on your system. Nor do you need to have empiracal evidence of SF ever actually causing a problem. Indeed, Im pretty sure that SF causes no "significant" technical issues, in most cases.


Its the very notion of having to tolerate yet another uneccesary component onto your system, running in the backround, by a company who decides they have the right to put stuff onto YOUR machine beyond what is neccesary to run the product you bought from them. We are already fighting Windows Bloat at every turn, with dozens of uneccesary processes running in the backround at any given time, and software makers installing home-dialing updaters and quasi-sypware info reporters onto your machine.


It doesnt matter how many cases of actual harm you can document from SF, or the Sony rootkit, or Real player, or any number of intrusive DRMs or info trackerssystems being forced upon the paying consumers. Im sure its lass than people claim, but more than the companies claim...such is the nature of spin. We can not want it just on principlal...they are OUR machines.


So now im in the position of being made to feel like an ass, because I paid for an inferior version of a product, whereas someone who didnt pay gets a superior version, that doesnt clutter up someones system with unneccesary garbage, or mandate them putting more wear on a hardware device. Thats a great way to motivate people to buy your products. Its one thing to deal with a sophisticated dongle system for a 1000$ + piece of professional grade software you use every day. Its another thing to need drivers on your system for every 40-50$ game you want to play for a week.


As public education about the matter grows, only the smart media developers like Stardock, who understand and adapt to this, and find alternate means to deal with the legitimate issues of piracy will survive. The writings on the wall here. Are you a smart game developer, or are you like the makers of Heroes of Might and Magic 5, who are stubbornly, blindly charging ahead into a disastrous situation?


Reply #169 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hmm cant someone make a post on the Heroes of might and magic 5 forum about this incident? I would make a long post about all the things starforce has done to prove that they are not to be supported but since my primary language isnt english I don't think I would be able to write it good enough. I would really want to buy HOMM5 especially since the developers actually listened to the community and postponed the game release for a month just so the game would be better at release but theres no way that Im buying a game with starforce, never have and never will.


That's already done in the StarForce thread However, Fabrice (Ubisoft's publisher for the game) seems to have stopped following the thread, even though he said he'd keep following it.


IT would have been nice if in their "apology" they could have gone the whole thing without again brushing off the incident as part of the vast conspiracy by organized pirates against them. Indeed, THEIR mistake/criminally negligent attack was part of a "planned action" by all the people who "hate" them.


Honestly, that "apology" can't really be considered as such. For the reasons you gave, but as well because for something like that, such apology should come on the front page of their website, not sneeky in the thread while closing it.
Reply #170 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the poster at the Starforce-forums wasn't trying to hurt Stardock, but rather show proof that the game is being widely pirated. Yes, it was a very unprofessional thing to do, but this was the actions of one person and not the entire company, and I'm pretty sure there was no ill intent.

It's also worth noting that Starforce has officially apologized for what happened, and removed the post from their forum (a fact I'm sure most news sites and forum posters will conveniently disregard when they're spreading this story).

Sorry if I sound grumpy, but I'm getting sick and tired of all the anti-Starforce propaganda. There's some fantastic games that use Starforce, and it's extremely sad that people are not buying them, just because of Starforce. I've yet to see proof that Starforce is actually doing the kind of damages people say it is, which strikes me as extremely odd, because if someone could produce that proof (shouldn't be hard if what they say is true), I'm pretty sure they would be able to sue both SF and the people who put it on their games from Moscow to Alberquerque.
Reply #171 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sorry if I sound grumpy, but I'm getting sick and tired of all the anti-Starforce propaganda. There's some fantastic games that use Starforce, and it's extremely sad that people are not buying them, just because of Starforce. .



As long as were being grumpy, Im also a little sick of hearing the Starforce apologists chime in with their predictable tired little pro-intrusion rants. Im just saying in general...no one in particular.

Once again, you dont need to see evidence of widespread system failures to not want Straforce on your system. You only have to be a moderately savy Pc user, who doesnt want uneccesary drivers and processes on his system, forbiding access to his own equipment, or mandating wear on devices when its not neccesary for the running of the product he paid for. The sooner people get over whatever misplaced "moral" compulsion that makes them think they need to defend this sort of thing, the sooner we can support Game Makers like Stardock who attemp innovative, consumer firendly solutions to these problems, and maybe we can get some real, positive change made on an industry wide level.


And yes, it is sad about those games. But I am a game buyer, with disposable income, who might normally be buying those games..but I wont be now. Its goign to be a shame to see HoMM5 written off before its even released. Im sure there are ,many talented people working on that game, who would have liked to see it purchased by more people. But this is to blame on their superiors, who decide to take the "easy" approach, rather than the smart one. Its not like they havent been warned, and pleaded with. Its a free market, and thats what free markets do.


At least I will be having fun with GalCiv2, which is a great game, by a great company to keep me busy for months, as well as Elder Scrolls: Oblivion in a few weeks.
Reply #172 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Honestly, if it takes a good game being trashed down the shredder to get rid of Starforce, so be it...

I figured out the results of my computer acting quirky- costing me hours of tweaking to try and get rid of the problem, on my last computer, HAD to be due to a Starforce game. Therefore, Starforce's mafioso tactics cost me several hours.
Reply #173 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the poster at the Starforce-forums wasn't trying to hurt Stardock, but rather show proof that the game is being widely pirated.

show proof? oh thank you starforce for showing us the folly of our ways, what would we do without you? did anyone send them a link of the games they have that are being pirated at the moment? take care of your own house and dont worry about what stardock is doing.
Reply #174 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the poster at the Starforce-forums wasn't trying to hurt Stardock, but rather show proof that the game is being widely pirated. Yes, it was a very unprofessional thing to do, but this was the actions of one person and not the entire company, and I'm pretty sure there was no ill intent.

It's also worth noting that Starforce has officially apologized for what happened, and removed the post from their forum (a fact I'm sure most news sites and forum posters will conveniently disregard when they're spreading this story).

Sorry if I sound grumpy, but I'm getting sick and tired of all the anti-Starforce propaganda. There's some fantastic games that use Starforce, and it's extremely sad that people are not buying them, just because of Starforce. I've yet to see proof that Starforce is actually doing the kind of damages people say it is, which strikes me as extremely odd, because if someone could produce that proof (shouldn't be hard if what they say is true), I'm pretty sure they would be able to sue both SF and the people who put it on their games from Moscow to Alberquerque.


for what concerns me, starforce might even not cause any damage to computers at all, I don't care, I won't buy anything with starforce protection from now on ever. I don't care if it works or not. it's the system that is wrong. they assume in advance I am a criminal trying to steal their stuff. ok, their right to do so, but I repay with the same coin everyone, they think I am a criminal, I think they are criminals trying to steal something mine. in this case FREEDOM.
and so I'll treat it consequently I'll exercize my freedom to NOT buy any game protected with starforce, no matter how much good it is. and I'll conduct campaigns against starforce-protected games just like games and starforce conducts anti-piracy campaigns. and I'll try to convince not only my friends, but the friends of my friends and the rest of the world if I can that starforce is the devil.

they demonize people, I demonize them. welcome to the new telematic dark ages.
Reply #175 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Star-Force is on the way out.. Most publishers won't touch it for fear of being liable in RootKit lawsuits similar to what killed SONY with their DRM a few months ago.

Most of the major publishers that did use Star-Force, stopped using it. Rumor has it, one of the reasons Digital Jesters went out of business is because all of their stuff had Starforce, and the boycott movement KILLED their sales.

At any rate, the death of Star-Force has been foretold.