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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

Setting the record straight

from GalCiv2 Forums

Digg is reporting that a website is implying that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated.  Absolutely not! Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.

This got started because sales reports on Galactic Civilizations II have been much higher than anticipated. We've now outsold the first Galactic Civilizations in North America in the first 10 days. Last week we were apparently the #1 PC game at Walmart. 

Naturally, some peple have taken the conclusion that because we don't have copy protection on our game, that we invite piracy. That is not the case, we simply think there are other ways to stop piracy than CD checks, strict DRM, etc.

What we do is provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.

Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once.

How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?

Our company also makes utility software. We've been around a long time -- 14 years now. Our software gets pirated. We don't like it but piracy is a fact of life. And not every pirated copy means a lost sale.

The question isn't about eliminating piracy, it's about increasing sales. It's about trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it. 

Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates.

If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy.

We realize that some people or companies might feel threatened at any evidence that implies that draconian DRM schemes or CD copy protection may not make that big of a difference in sales. 

For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.

All software is pirated, there's no way around it. We've been making software for over 10 years.  We don't like our software being pirated.  Like I said, every lost sales has an impact on us.  But there are other ways to reduce it than through draconian copy protection systems.

Incidentally, the site that Starforce's forum admin linked to "prove" how much our software was being pirated we visited, followed the instructions on the site to get our game removed and the links were removed within a couple of hours.  We'll continue to follow-up with them.

Update: Starforce has removed the URL to the illegal files.

Update: View follow-up.

523,833 views 309 replies
Reply #101 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thank you guys. I really HATE all this DRM and copy protection crap in most games. It's such a pain that it keeps me from bothering to play games on the PC. If I'm going to need the disc I might as well play on my console or just do something else. I would suggest a demo of your game that can legally be downloaded though. I bought a lot more games during the days shareware was common. Give me the first hit for free and I'll probably buy the rest of the game if it's worth playing.

Three rules there for selling me a game. A) write a good game, B) let me try it for free, and C) don't hassle me with stupid copy protection schemes. Do these and I'll become your loyal customer. Write your game to work on my choice platform of Linux and I'll be even more likely to buy. Most of my friends use either Linux or Mac OS so don't ignore those markets.
Reply #102 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Starforce (or whatever the company that makes it is called) is a dirty sleazy company that brings all developers associated with it a bad name. Yet another underhand and dirty tactic from them - linking a URL to pirated software because a company (Stardock) shows them up by having a hugely popular title with no copy protection.

I am waiting for these criminals to be brought to justice and hope that it provokes a massive change in the way the industry deals with its customers.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #103 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
SmackleFunky, then I deeply apologize for anything I've said against you. I'm just really mad about Starforce. These guys, and the rest of the DRM guys for that matter are simply against gamers and all of what makes us enjoy games so much. I know that it's not necessarily Starforce's fault, I used to a PC-technician and I work at a computer company, afterall, but I just wanted to find a reason to hate these guys even more. I hope they'll go out of business.

I deeply apologize again. I really lost my temper against you for no apparent reason. Please excuse me.
Reply #104 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I cant believe the nerve of Citizen Campaigner on post #60. Acting as damage control for Starforce, the damage has all ready been done. Starforce's reputation has taken another hit.

[Quote]
"About the StarForce admin posting a link to a torrentsite that's something that most people can find anyway....if he had said: "well, GalCiv II doesn't have our protection and is getting pirated" then people would probably tell him to show some hard evidence. Now he did, and he gets blamed for it...."[Quote]

Apparenlty posting links to illegal torrent sites on Starfrorce's forum does not go against (Starforces) ideology of preventing piracy and the case of copy protection (are we trying to prevent piracy or increase Starforce's sales figures here?).

Why was the post made in the first place? A direct attempt to promote Starforce by providing an example of piracy. Not only does this one example prove little (all games are pirated to an extent, highlighting and referencing one link as an example is not representative) You do not go about promoting copy protection by referencing piracy (which could sort to inadvertantly promote piracy).

Firms should do it by quoting sales figures, but the problem is its very difficult to measure how well software wouldve sold without copy protection. Or for that matter how do you measure how many people are playing the game illegally, if so how do you take into account arguements that some of those people will then go and buy the game after having tried and tested it (argued by some of the above).
Reply #105 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I want to shake the hand of the guy who posted the original message.

If you go to a piracy-preventing's site and post "har har, your piracy-prevention stuff sucks", and gets a torrent link spread to the four corners of the Earth... I find nothing wrong with showing a torrent that says "yeah."

Everyone remember this - only people online care about Starforce. The overwhelming majority of people will completely forget this situation, and will not remember it when they buy their next protected game. Nor did most people buy GalCiv2 because of its lack of protection.

And one more thing - things like Starforce only exist because people pirate. As long as people pirate, Starforce will exist. You'll have the once-in-a-blue moon game like GC2 without any protection, but its not enough.
Reply #106 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You do not go about promoting copy protection by referencing piracy (which could sort to inadvertantly promote piracy).


I just wrote an email to the ESA saying exactly that. I suggest that anyone else who feels strongly about this or other StarForce abominations do something about it rather than sit shaking their heads in despair. Blog, write in forums, write to your favourite developers, join anti-StarForce sites (e.g. http://www.glop.org/starforce/ ).... do whatever it takes to bring down this nasty malware with the nasty company behind it who have made it clear time and again that they WILL protect their own interests even going so far as to threaten a number of reporters both legally and physically!!!

Even the Russian media is beginning to turn against one of its homegrown success stories.
Reply #107 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sorry for not reading through all this as it is late, so if someone already brought this up sorry about that. I know the starforce people are a Russian company, but I would think that if they have a US arm of the company they could be in trouble for RICO violations for what they did? Stardock didn't pay starforce protection money so starforce willingly tried to injure stardock's business? I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that would stand to reason.

I'll pledge $50 to your legal fund for that one.

Schnitz76
Reply #108 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

suggest that anyone else who feels strongly about this or other StarForce abominations do something about it rather than sit shaking their heads in despair. Blog, write in forums, write to your favourite developers, join anti-StarForce sites (e.g. Link ).... do whatever it takes to bring down this nasty malware with the nasty company


It will never work. For every one person who actually cares about Starforce, there are 1,000 who don't, and will never, care.
Reply #109 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you go to a piracy-preventing's site and post "har har, your piracy-prevention stuff sucks", and gets a torrent link spread to the four corners of the Earth... I find nothing wrong with showing a torrent that says "yeah."


The only problem is that these torrents show nothing. Do you want to see how many people download cracked versions and images of protected software of major games? Ten times more. True, it's not because of software protection or lack thereof, but it's a fact. You can easily twist this fact to your own persoanl agenda, just like any other fact. The way that Starforce used this fact is simply wrong in every way.
Reply #110 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Do you want to see how many people download cracked versions and images of protected software of major games? Ten times more


Doesn't matter. The guy responded to the "ha ha GC2 can do well without protection lolz" comment in a way that proved that people are downloading the game, and increased that amount considerably. Even if the link that was there is gone, there's a boatload of people today that found out that a pretty good game can be downloaded and used, no strings attached. This lends strength to Starforce's argument: our system can prevent this.

I just think the whole situation is kinda funny. GC2 has been pimped as "a game you don't have to have obnoxious protection to play!". With that and this current situation, we're seeing the downside of that pimping. As far as 5-Minute Internet Dramas go, this is pretty damned good.
Reply #111 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You can easily twist this fact to your own persoanl agenda, just like any other fact.


Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.
Reply #112 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
haha starforce calling out galciv 2 about how much it is being pirated??? Maybe they don't bother to see how much the games they 'protect' are pirated?!

Starforce doesn't stop piracy. Starforce just gets a free ride from paranoid publishers.
Reply #113 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It will never work. For every one person who actually cares about Starforce, there are 1,000 who don't, and will never, care.


If you believe wholly in that, then you believe that you have no power to change anything in your life or the world! Of those 1000 you mentioned - how many are just plain ignorant of the potential damage caused by StarForce hidden drivers just the same as the recent Sony debacle. If those 1000 knew, would they change their minds - not all of them no but a significant percentage would? That's how you CAN change something, by making more people aware who in turn make more people aware etc. Information is power, I'd rather know and not be able to do much about it (except not buy any games that use StarForce protection) than ignorantly have that hidden driver on my home system causing potential security issues and possible hardware damage.
Reply #114 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Scumbag509, downloading a game is really easy. It's not really what makes the game worthwhile, though. It's the regular updates and free content that you can't easily grab if you don't buy the game that makes the game worthwhile. So basically, as protection software goes just like anything else in life, it appears that you DO catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

SmackleFunky, and you can take that to the bank
Reply #115 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

If you believe wholly in that, then you believe that you have no power to change anything in your life or the world!


I believe that these kinda outrages are completely uninfluential.


Of those 1000 you mentioned - how many are just plain ignorant of the potential damage caused by StarForce hidden drivers just the same as the recent Sony debacle.


Most of 'em are ignorant of the alleged problems. I say "alleged" as 9 times out 0f 10 the problem is either unrelated to Starforce, or the result of the user using some piracy-enabling software.


If those 1000 knew, would they change their minds - not all of them no but a significant percentage would?


Most of them would rightfully see the 'problems' as far less drastic than the anti-Starforce people would. Even then, the bulk of people would forget the issue the next time their starforce-protected Game They Want comes out.


That's how you CAN change something, by making more people aware who in turn make more people aware etc.


You assume that, if presented with the facts as you see them, they would agree with you.
Reply #116 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I posted about this on Pennyarcade and my blog as well.


Tycho's going to have a field day with this one. Oh yes, I can't wait till Monday for him to rip StarForce a new one.

He's already publically decried StarForce (specifically) and StarForce-like crap in the past. And PA actually has some weight and the ability to move the masses of gamers. This action by StarForce is just the kind of thing gamers need to see to take action.

Further proving that StarForce people are in their whole own category of asshatness...


I didn't have a problem with StarForce the company (as opposed to the product); they're just a bunch of programmers who see a need and are trying to fulfill that need to their customers (ie, publishers) needs. The fact that their product directly screws us isn't StarForce's fault. The overall fault lies with those willing to use the product, not those who make it.

However, once StarForce started acting like jerks (ie, by doing this), they have made it personal. They see StarDock as a threat to their survival (somewhat ridiculous, I don't see the vast majority of publishers actually taking up StarDock's update model). So, rather than simply accepting that, in their eyes, their product will no longer be in demand, they start up this protection racket.

Now I am not saying that it isn't starforces fault, I am just saying that windows (in general) has a habit of slowly grinding to a halt regardless of what is installed, and that jumping to a conclusion like that is a bad mistake.


It depends on an actual diagnosis, but I have never noticed any XP machine slowly grinding to a halt running normal applications. Or even mildly stressful ones. Perhaps if you're running 3DS Max (the worst application ever forged by the hand of man. StarForce has nothing on Max) a lot, you might need a reboot after a day or two. But that's about it.

So if your machine was fine yesterday, and all you did in the meantime was install a StarForce-wielding product, and now your computer's being wierd, it's probably a good bet that it isn't Windows.

Everyone remember this - only people online care about Starforce.


Oh, you mean like the vast majority of PC gamers?

PC gamers, the ones who buy games for the PC, tend to be geeks. Most people who want to play games aren't going to bother getting a game to work on their computer, because more than likely they'll have to do something that they don't want to bother with/don't know how like downloading some driver or something. It's too much hassle for them. They play console games.

The ones who are left are educated. We care about our computers, and don't like random programs being installed on them. This isn the Sony rootkit debacle, where only the geeks remember it, because all (or most) PC gamers are, by definition, geeks.

And one more thing - things like Starforce only exist because people pirate. As long as people pirate, Starforce will exist. You'll have the once-in-a-blue moon game like GC2 without any protection, but its not enough.


Nonsense.

StarForce is a particular copy protection scheme. While you might argue that we will always have one form of copy protection or another, that's quite a different story from saying that StarForce is forever.

More importantly, the more invasive forms of copy protection can be forced out of use. It's only a matter of gamers deciding not to buy those games. Though doing so will probably hasten the eventual death of PC games as a force in the industry, because publishers will misinterpret the lower sales for disinterest in PC games.

You assume that, if presented with the facts as you see them, they would agree with you.


It worked for the Sony rootkit debacle. You didn't see people running around going, "Hey, I don't mind having a rootkit on my machine that opens it up to all kinds of exploits and so forth!" They heard the word "rootkit", went "WTF? That sound bad. People are telling me it's bad. I want it gone, NOW!" And it was gone.
Reply #117 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

the ability to move the masses of gamers


You speak as if that does anything. Did the 'masses of gamers' make System Shock 2 a success? Or Planescape: Torment? Did it doom The Sims to failure? Halo?

If we must use the term, the 'masses of gamers' you speak of are not the ones who have weight in today's gaming enviroment.


Oh, you mean like the vast majority of PC gamers? PC gamers, the ones who buy games for the PC, tend to be geeks.


Nonsense. PC gamers are increasingly mainstream, and the 'geek' is becoming a quickly irrelvent demographic. You may disagree, but doing so only proves your increasingly isolated nature. I've listed two "geek" failures above. Invisible War did better than Deus Ex, if you're curious. Consoles, PC gaming... the nerd demographic is increasingly easy to ignore. Their selling paterns are increasingly trivial, as is their crusades - Starforce being merely one of the causes that can - and will - never cause anything to change.


because all (or most) PC gamers are, by definition, geeks.


This shows how distant you have become from the true gamer. PC gamers are Halo players. Sims players. Bejweled players. They are legion. Only by adapting can you retain your value to the producers of games.

I've done it. You can too.


StarForce is a particular copy protection scheme. While you might argue that we will always have one form of copy protection or another, that's quite a different story from saying that StarForce is forever


Starforce is the future. If not Starforce itself, something worse. It will not get better. And we have pirates to blame.


It worked for the Sony rootkit debacle.


Outside of an internet forum, did you hear about the rootkit situation? Did you hear about it on the local news? The network news?

Thought not.
Reply #118 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This sort of behaviour cannot be tolerated. No more starforce protected games for me. Pity, I was quite looking forward to HOMM5. Oh, well. There's still GalCiv2.
Reply #119 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
br[quote For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents./quote]

Jeez, these guys are one small step below criminal. They feel so threatened by the success of a non-protected product that they actually try to get your product pirated. It's like "lets put it this way bud, use our starforce protection on your product or we'll make sure it's gonna be pirated".

I was dithering about buying GalCiv II, when I heard it had no copy protection so I would have no issues with it not running I leapt in and bought it. It's such a good game that my mates are now gonna get it as well - as soon as the CE is back on sale.

At the end of the day, give the customer what they want and they will buy it. Make it worth their effort and they will buy it. Hit them with the bad 'ol copy protection routine, which gives them hassle and grief and they will go elsewhere.

Reply #120 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
PC gamers are increasingly mainstream, and the 'geek' is becoming a quickly irrelvent demographic


Unfortunately, agreed...So sad, really.

Starforce is the future


All Hail Starforce! Geez, you remind me of a Drengin I met once
Reply #121 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A side comment - another big plus to Stardocks respect for the end-user is the simple fact that it helps grow a community. And good communities make good reviews, good reviews make good sales. I wouldn't even have come across the game without this recent controversy, found out the game rocked and was what I had been praying for since the sick disappointment of MoO3, and bought it on the spot. Frequent updates and community support for those people who are willing to support the game - thanks. It's nice as a consumer to not be treated as an a-hole by the developers for a change.
Reply #122 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
im not sure if piracy increases sales or not. Personally i dont think anyone who would have bought the game gets it pirated. of course there will be exceptions. Some people that gets it pirated and likes it alot would want to buy it just because you dont get the whole package with the pirated version. Personally i think stardocks strategy is very clever, only using the CD key to be able to update. There probably isnt even CD keys included in the pirated versions.
Reply #123 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
im not sure if piracy increases sales or not. Personally i dont think anyone who would have bought the game gets it pirated. of course there will be exceptions. Some people that gets it pirated and likes it alot would want to buy it just because you dont get the whole package with the pirated version. Personally i think stardocks strategy is very clever, only using the CD key to be able to update. There probably isnt even CD keys included in the pirated versions.
Reply #125 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't buy any PC game that contains CRAPFORCE, pardon, StarForce as a Copy Protection - and I never will. I would rather give up this hobby then becoming the slave of the copy protection industry.

And if its true that SF posted liks to GC2 torrents, please Brad, sue them to oblivion!!!!

The release scheme of GC2 and the policy "extra value for the customer" was one of the main reasons I preordered GC2, unfortunately a big part of the gaming industry seems to follow the motto "the customer is our enemy" nowadays.

They drive away their customers with crappy service, intrusive DRM and then blaim it on the pirates if they don't sell games anymore. Arrogance combined with stupidity all in one package - how efficient.