Because YOU DONT USE ANY COPY PROTECTION meaning THAT YOU RESPECT THE USER for not having him/her in to trouble of trying to have 1)a compatible dvd/cd-rom 2)Loads of stupid shadow copy protection drivers 3)Frustrations of forgetting the cd at home 4)Limited or not at all internet connections to validate an install 5)AND ALL THESE OTHER STUPID COPY PROTECTION TRICKS that haunts a good game

THATS THE REASON I BOUGHT YOUR GAME. You respect me (user) - I respect you (software company)
ps. give me a link to preorder your galcivII expansion too hehehehe
thx for a really good game stardock.

Hi
I'm french, and that's quite the first time I register in a company or game website to react on what has been said.
The fact is that like a lot of gamers, I would never buy a game protected with Starforce. Recently, e french company, Nadeo, published a very good game called Trackmania Sunrise I would have enjoy to play. But, it was Starforce protected (and very proud of that). I didn't find a friend that had the original game to test with my computer if it works, and I don't wanna buy something that'll probably destroy all i've done in my computer (crashing windows, forcing you to format, waiting about three minutes for the game to launch, etc...).
Now, I promised myself to never buy a SF protected game, not because I know it's harmful for my system ( ), but because it's just a reflect of the reason why the game were made. I'm a programmer, and that's not just a job for me, i LOVE that, so I'll never let somebody put DRM or else into my creation (and to be honest, even if I only want to sell a lot of game, i would not put some into, now that I know that I would limit the sales).

You decided not to protect your game, and for that I came from far to tell you the right way you're on : I would never have heard about your game if it was SF protected, for example, except if a friend come and tell me "don't buy it" !
Instead of that, I came to see what's that company that refuse to protect their game, I've looked to the screenshots, and I think you could win a sale with me (that's the kinda game I like). Let me try it first, and I'll be back with my own to blow you all

Sorry for my pityful english, and thank you for the work, and the spirit.

Nice work Stardock for finding out about this link to a pirated version of GalCiv 2 and removing it! I've noticed that some fans have said they bought the game because it didn't contain any protection, which I can understand that it can be a pain for some people either because of software issues due to 'certain' protection used by bigger companies, or the need to constantly have the CD/DVD in the PC to play the game. I guess I've been lucky that I've not had any probs with copy protection on any of my games, but I do find it annoying when fans go out, purchase a new game only to find that because of the copy protection on the disc that their DVD drive won't read the disc or something conflicts with the software and won't install (CNC : TFD anyone?)

I've always bought my games for the simple fact, if its a good game, packaged well and my PC is capable to run it from a hardware point of view I'll add it to my collection, and thats the bottom line, I consider my games to be a collection, games that interest and excite me from an interactive 'story' kind of way. Something to lose yourself in be it a stratergy, an RPG, a First Person Shooter, whatever you as an individual enjoys from gaming, and for me the best way to do that and something I've been doing since way back in the days of the old 8bit computer days (C64, ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC464 - computers I grew up with over here in England), to the 16bit computers of the Atari ST and Amiga until that day in 1995 when I got to play a game on this thing called a PC, that game being DOOM, is buying my games, its so much nicer to have the manuals, proper CD's, extra stuff and of course nowadays, with the internet, to be apart of a rich community of fellow gamers with 100% support and contact to and from the creators, there's nothing more rewarding I think to give something back to everyone who has laboured over the creation of a game by simply buying it and being a proud owner of something in the case of GALCIV 2, something special, a game that deserves the title of a 'Classic' and a game that deserves to be purchase and owned!

Bottom line, we can all see that GalCiv 2 has sold well so I am happy for Stardock and to be apart of the 'elite' group of fans who have been rewarded with being the first purchasers of the game to recieve the 'Collectors' edition (In the UK Paradox who publishes the game in Europe released it in a special 'Steel Book' DVD box which is very nice!)

Stick by the game creators, it may sound like a cliche, but if we don't the time will come where the smaller companies will stop making games, it is business at the end of the day, we all have to make a living.

Outside of an internet forum, did you hear about the rootkit situation? Did you hear about it on the local news? The network news?

Actually it was on all major internet news sites. BBC ran stories on it practically from Day 1..... you can't really claim that BBC isn't a major news provider globally!

Also Scumbag, I think you are missing the point here, although I doubt I am going to persuade you as you have your own opinion and that's fine. The bottom line is: Putting something on my PC which is practically undetectable by me, which opens my security system, which causes the write speed of my CD to miraculously drop substantially (this reverted to normal the moment I found and uninstalled the rootkit crap from StarForce) is basically at the least, malware. If I pay for a product that does this to me, I no longer wish to buy that product. This is consumer driven economics and believe me, it does have power and influence.

The kind of % of sales StarForce claims to save from those first few weeks (at the very most) before it is cracked needs to be balanced against the pure loss sales of consumers who will not buy a product that installs malware.

There's a simple argument that follows: People who buy/dl pirate copies were never going to buy the product anyway so the company would never have made those sales. The customers who do buy the original product are the only ones who get the shaft from such intrusive protection. The ones who bought/dl'ed the pirate do not have any concerns over the protection or what it does to their pc as it is overrided anyway. So the only ones to actually receive the negative sides to copy protection are the paying customers. How does that help this market?

StarForce say it themselves: We know that copy protection is counter to the paying customer, but we dont sell our product to the end user - we sell it to software companies. Thus, if we wish to move the blame away from StarForce who are just providing a service, then we need to blame the companies that use it. They will *certainly* start to take note if their customer base drops significantly due to unwillingness to buy a product with a certain 3d party element to it. Look at Bethseda, sometime ago they were going to use StarForce for Oblivion but there has been a lot of negative response on their forums so now they have changed their minds. This is just simple business sense - i.e. dont piss your customers off or they wont be your customers.

I personally have been saying for years that the best method of fighting piracy is to release content by serial numbers. X2 used this system and it worked.... any old pirate copy could be played but it was only a fraction of what the fully patched game became. Yes, pirates can crack the patches.... but really, most of the time this is just not going to happen. They're going to crack the initial game.... maybe even the 1.1 exe but after that they will be busy with the next game and the next. Software companies will still get the same sales - from their customers who would buy the game whether it was readily available cracked or not.

While I respect the opinions of those who say that fighting piracy is a necessity, I still question the validity of the methods they support. Yes, business have a right to protect their intellectual property but not by sacrificing the security of their customers systems.

Reading post #22 by Citizen Drakonis..
"Released Games that contain starforce protection"

I just parsed the list randomly and I copied the titles that rang a bell to me.
I figured that, not being much of a game fan, just the fact that I knew about them
meant that it was somehow popular...

I chose:
Colin McRae Rally 2005 PC, Area 51, Splinter Cell 3

Well, I went out there on BT search sites using these , and guess what I've found?
I found that Games with starforce also apparently get cracked... 2 of these game were,
in fact, already cracked.

I would not know myself if these are working or not, but just judging on how much
these torrents were downloaded I would say that they must be working, some of these
sites have forums and people report having them working also.

The only one that didn't seem to work is Splinter cell 3, but my search reveals ISOs for
platforms like Xbox and PS2. I don't need to add anything here.

I have 2 conclusions to this:
- In this case inflaming "arrogant public relations" from an invasive copy protection
company got me interested in BT, well, let's say that it's tehorically possible here.

- They will get cracked anyway, and as widely available, once cracked as any other
software.

Copy protection is important, but it's not the only solution to secure your revenues...
Doing a good game must me more relevant when it's time to make revenues, it must be.
right?

Well, if the mod offer to help, and you accept, your reputation could suffer.
Fighting back must be done through education I guess, forums like this will help.

1) the starforce people are troughtly idiots.
2) galactic civilizations 2 is a really good game. I just miss the lack of multiplayer (to play it with friends)
3) I own ORIGINAL of galactic civilization 1 and 2. (bought tru the stardock central, guys that's awesome method)
4) I did not buy antaran propecy (it had nothign real new from gal civ 1, sorry guys)
5) your policy of sales is absolutely good. infact I REFUSE to buy games with starforce copy protection and you can consider me subscribed for gal-civ 3 already
6) I bought hundreds of games from smaller companies (URW, steel panther world at war, dominions, star empires 4 gold) often the best gaming concepts are born by small companies. you will become big in the future guys
7) yes, sometimes I download pirated games. I play them then I get bored with them and delete them OR I save up money and buy them if I like them. I did come to know galactic civilization 1 tru a pirated copy. I was so whoah that 1 hour after I started the pirated version I called my friend with the credit card and bought it off right away from your site. so don't lose all hope, that people plays pirated version doesn't mean that they won't buy the game.
8) pirates out of there got a code of honor of sorts. I can name several games NOT being cracked or hacked or pirated just because pirates thinks they should be bought. probably those links are just a leftover of the hype hell I'd download right away the pirated copy of oblivion, even if I already pre-ordered it and paid IN ADVANCE for it already. I just can't wait til 20th to be released....
9) people doesn't have money. that's a fact of life. too many games all at once (after lots of time without games worth of note) if I had to choose between buy oblivion and galciv 2.. well you know the answer. BUT, I'd buy galciv 2 at a later time when I'd have the money. (whych would make it even better for me since you keep on adding stuff and stuff and stuff)
10) with your method the appeal of the game your selling increases instead of decrease. as you keep on improving the game over time.

I am enjoying my ORIGINAL copy of galactic civilizations 2 and I thank you for existing and for having done that great game for me, and for all the people like me that enjoys that kind of games. I think you guys should get ahold of the team of space empires, toghether you could design the ultimate all around space game!

Just wanted to let it be known that I haven't bought any game using the draconian StarForce system yet. Was tempting. Star Rangers 2 seemed like a very good game and there are others, but there's a limit in the amount of copy protection that I as a legit buyer am willing to accept. So they at least lost my money and I'm far from the only one.

Seeing the simple method used by Stardock, I must say that I get more and more irritated by some of the other methods

Keep up the good work, maybe more companies will see the light someday. At the moment more seem to go for SF, but they'll come back on that for sure. The SF company and service is a very bad joke!

First post here, actually; having read this and the resulting furore, it only makes Stardocks attitude towards digital sales, etc, stand out as excellent (across the entire industry), and makes Starforce look lamentable; particularly as they know exactly what effect posting a torrent would have, and it looks nothing more than a crude and quite possibly illegal attempt to points score by hurting another company (that isn't even in particularly direct competition).

I've had a couple of issues with StarForce in the past, though I've been able to work around the problems with a bit of effort. And no, I don't pirate. Starforce isn't the worst out there - I recall issues with a couple of Atari releases where legitimate game CD's would completely fail to be recognized by specific CD-R drives. I actually had to buy a new one (thankfully on sale for about $15) for it to run. THAT was a pretty awful protection scheme.

I don't have any inherent issues with companies wanting to use copy protection. I don't think StarForce is all that good for the end user, but there is some undeniable value for companies that are in certain marketing niches. It seems as if this particular game is helped by its lack of a DRM or CD check, and bravo to Stardock for being visionary enough to take the chance.

I do, however, have issues with a company that puports to be looking out for the best interests of publishers then linking to a site where anyone could go and download a pirated game from, whether it's a company that uses their software or not. That's absurdly hypocritical and indefensible. It's not only an actionable position for Stardock, but for any publisher whose games where available via that link. The fact that it's a Russian company does *not* protect them from prosecution, as there are specific laws that apply to international commerce, not to mention local laws for them.

The fact that cracks and torrent sites can be easily found with searches also does not serve as a legal or moral defense, nor does the defense that few people would have come across the link - that only serves as a relatively ineffective means to argue that damages were minimal. If Starforce attempts to defend their action, then they in turn have to effectively defend every single site that has such cracks and torrent files. They can't - nobody can. It was wrong in every sense of the word.

As an end-user, I'd like to see inconvenient protection schemes go the way of the dodo. If a company builds one in that doesn't hinder my enjoyment, go right ahead. However, after seeing what I have, I would wish for companies to go someplace other than Starforce for their protection needs. If a boycott is what it takes ...

Simply put Starforce guys are criminals. This behavior of "do what I want or else..." is pure Mafia style. What they did, posting a link to pirated software, is a crime in most of the world (don't know about Russia. Seems that there, like China, everything is valid)

Seeing companies like Ubisoft making deals with these kind of gangs doesn't send a very positive message about their corporate ethics...

Well, I generally don't look twice at games with Civ in the title, but because of your reasonable policy, I'm off to EBgames to buy a copy. Thanks for thinking of us as customers first rather than rabid pirates.

I remember that Sony CD malware debacle. A huge company brought to its knees after a single guy started a fire on the net about it.

I don't even care about PC gaming anymore. Quake IV bombed. HL2 was more of a tech demo than a game, impressive but soul-lacking. CIV4 < CIV3. After buying GalCiv2 the only games I care about this year are Oblivion, Spore and Empire at War. The rest are just junk and crap. This Starforce piece of $*it just made it worse. I didn't buy SH3 and X3 because of that malware.

I don't need a game to live so if it is more of a problem to buy a legit game (filling my expensive PC with a virus like computer wrecking low level driver that doesn't get uninstalled AFTER you uninstall the game) than simply forgetting about it, I'll simply walk away with my money still in my wallet.

Join the starfoce boycott now! http://www.glop.org/starforce/ Go here to find the tool too remove it!! http://www.glop.org/starforce/remove.php

Display this logo to help spread the word! [url=http://www.glop.org/starforce/][/url

I Disliked starforce before today, now I loathe then in the sense that word truly implies. Bad enough their 'prodect' makes me boycott games with it on it (homm5 fare thee well) but then to stoop so low as to link pirated versions of your game so as to what? coerce you into buying into their protection scheme???

What total trash.

Stardock, you are the posterchild for how a software company should act. That others choose to throw dirt at you just reveals how petty and despicable they are.

Cheers!
-Liq

Mark me down as another lost sale for Heoes of Might & Magic V. Congratulations, you Starforce morons, on hurting yourself with your draconian tactics. I'm sure UbiSoft appreciates you shooting them in the foot.

And kudos to the GalCiv2 folks, again, on trusting your customers and putting out a great game!

I'm really glad Bethesda decided not to use starforce on their discs, or it would have been the first game I seriously want to play but won't buy because of starforce.

The funny thing about DRM software, which Spearthrower kind of touched on in post #129, is that those who crack the CD protection are looking for the next big thing, the newest and hardest thing. They want to be first to put up an ISO for the game with the most hardcore protection. The 1.1 version of a game will actually take longer to crack than the 1.0, because a lot of the crackers have lost interest and gone on to the next game. Games that use the more draconian/hardcore protection such as starforce are actually setting themselves up as targets. From a hacker's point of view, who cares if you can put up a torrent for GalCiv 2? It has no protection on it, any 10-year old could zip it up and post it. Being the first to put up a cracked version of a game with starforce on it is how you gain recognition. So no matter how tough copy protection software gets, there will always be someone eager to step up to the challenge. In fact, the louder and more arrogant a company is about their software being uncrackable, the more people will work on cracking it.

Everyones made the points already, so I'm just goign to say that we gamers appreciate you. We really do.

And also, I don't care how much money starforce puts inot its PR, I'm not buying a game with it on. I'd feel the need to clean myself after installing it.

I've known people in the pirate community. Starforce (nor any other copy protection scheme) doesn't stop them. Starforce and all other copy protection schemes are for fools. They protect nothing. Stardock not only is saving money by not using this junk, it creates a lot of good will and good press by being intelligent and doing the right thing (which is just what software developers ask of us).

Starforce put this info on their website because GalCiv2 was doing so well without copy protection; something that worries them a lot. They don't want other developers to realize just how useless copy protection is.

Man this topic is HOT! 200+ referrals and growing

On behalf of the whole StarForce I would like to tender our apologies to all people, who have been working on creation of the game Galactic Civilizations II. We have to officially claim that what has happened is just a mistake of our employee that was boosted into “our planned PR action” by the people, who hate StarForce. Using this link, he just wanted to show that every non-protected game can be cracked (in case of some own simple protection) or just put onto the internet resource for public use, sooner or later. I think he guessed that finding the first link to a recent non-protected game would be the best proof. We have to accept that he chose the wrong way for that, but he is just a human and mistakes are human’s nature.

This employee has been responsible for the branch “General questions” during this week, that’s why nobody else had seen this topic and couldn’t remove the links till we heard negative references from different sources.

We have to claim that this has been the first and the last time we allowed posting a link to a resource with illegal content on our forum by our staff. And we will strengthen the administration of the forum to keep it clear from similar links posted by forum members and others.

In further we will necessarily improve our Forum, especially its rules and policy.

Please, once again accept our deepest apologies for inconveniences caused by this issue.

As someone said before, you don't have to murder someone's child to show tell them about murder.

Fire JM.

Please, once again accept our deepest apologies for inconveniences caused by this issue.

You're only apologizing because your arrogance finally backfired on you.

You can't unring a bell. I hope this is the straw that breaks the camel's back because YOUR company, sir, deserves to be BROKEN.

The fact is that after seeing this, the chances are I'll download your game without paying you for it. Initially. If it's any good, you'll get a sale from me, and if it's not, I won't waste my disk space on it. Try before you buy is one of the greatest things that strictly copy-protected games lose - along with word-of-mouth recommendations from those with no money to buy it to those who do have the money. A student living on ramen who downloads the game is not a "lost sale" but a marketing opportunity Those who do have the money, such as myself (these days) should pony up for those doing good work, especially when they're doing it without being user-hostile or treating us like criminals.

I'm sick and tired of being punished for legally buying a product, and knowing (from experience - I didn't always have AU$100 each for games, though I've since bought all the good ones I used to play) the the crackers get a better product. No CD-Key, no disc whirring away in the drive, no disc to get scratched or to have to find when you want to play it. Just start it up. The same experience is available for the few Linux ports of games such as Neverwinter Nights that I have, and I miss it a lot with the rest of them. I'll be delighted to be able to buy your game and know it'll work without any of that unpleasantness - and it'll make me MUCH more likely to buy it and recommend it. The fact that it'll piss those arrogant StarForce gits off is just a bonus.

Isn't it mostly the commercial scale pirates - especially those selling pre-cracked fakes - who do the real financial harm anyway? I've seen plenty of $2 games in Bali, but also more than a few swapmeet vendors with well-printed boxes going for AU$50 (the price of a really "cheap" commercial game here). Nasty.

I like to know that if I'm "buying the license, not the product" I can back up the bit of plastic it comes on, and that as a legal customer I won't be punished for buying the product (inconvenience etc) or forced to crack my own game to get it to work. Yes, I've had to do that.

Congratulations on breaking away from the industry hype and the copy-protection-company fearmongering. I hope it works for you, and wish folks like Cenega would take a clue from your choices. Thanks.

Time to check out your game. If it doesn't totally suck (read: buggy, like UFO Aftershock) I expect I'll buy it out of support alone.

Ahmen brother *clapping*

What a remarkable state of affairs. Despite having purchased & greatly enjoyed Galactic Civilizations 1, simply due to the constraints of time in my life at present, I had not intended to purchase the evidently highly regarded sequel. However, despite having been rather sickened by the mercenary capitalist tactics used by some companies in order to further their business, I found myself genuinely angered by this recent behaviour from the StarForce camp.

I'm all for enforcing ideology to a degree - but am firmly against making people do the 'right' thing for the wrong reasons, and StarForce are building an enormous case against themselves for tactics that benefit not the developers, not the customers, but only themselves.

Having been further enlightened by this news, I shall from this point on endeavor to never purchase any product that contains StarForce protection & I shall certainly be purchasing Galactic Civilizations II, even if I won't have the time to play it. Furhermore, the StarDock developers & employees have deservedly gained my respect for not only thus far shunning the amoral advances of a wouldbe shameful bed-fellow, but also holding your fan-base in higher considerably regard.

I wish your company nothing but the best for the future - I look forward hopefully for the announcement that Galactic Civilizations II has outsold every existing StarForce tainted product ...