Do i really need to tell you about Mulch shambler 3? you can get it at level 15 with qot and for only 250 mana with a very small cooldown you get instantly healed for 2250 points and do 750 damage near the shambler. So if you are just a little experienced with qot, u place the shambler near the enemy dg and u get insta-healed for 2250 hp and damage the enemy for 750 damage. That is definitely OP. At level 15 you cant die with qot. But i dont complain about it. Why? because it is a level 15 skill. By then game is over, or almost over. It doesnt matter. QoT already has a really strong level 15 skill.

So you are suggesting that erebus should lose his bat swarm? then erebus would be almost useless. It doesnt even make sense. And about the buffing bite matter i am neutral about it. As i said before it doesnt really mater so much. just a level 15 skill.

Ok now i understand a little better. I thought i was confused and couldnt see what was your point but now i get it.

You are confused Xaviors. Please dont make me repeat myself. Sigh.... as i said before there are 4 damage dealers and 4 support. YOU just want the 4 support demigods buffed and the 4 damage dealers nerfed. Thats plain and simple stupid. if this happened then why even bother to support? just buff sedna and she could kill every1 from the start until the end of the game.

Erebus is support???? ok you must be playing some other game or u are just simply dreaming. or u just confused the term "support" with "general". Dude erebus is a damage dealer. an attacker. a melee demigod.

Sigh... Why i even bother to explain?

Xaviors, sometimes a UB without spit, with a pure ooze build simply OWNS. lets say there are 3 enemy generals; sedna erebus and qot. they have heal and bramble shield. you are UB. You would go with spit??? they will just laugh at your spit. especially sedna.

And a regulus without snipe, actually really owns if played right.... you just have to go with pure dps build no snipe and if you play good (of course) it is a very good build. Just that people dont play it or dont like it thats why they think it sucks.

Again it depends on the situation (map, enemy demigods, your allied demigods etc).

i got a question for all you debuff whiners...

Would you ever use symbol of puritfication to rid yourself of bite debuff? and why?

As for qot ... i dont think ill ever comprehend why ppl still bother defending her. PPL tend to always play her in bud form, reason why is they always reserve mana for her defensive skills and not bother wasting any mana on offensive skill. Now if all ur doing is trying to survive in a battle, wat is it you want to achieve? are you hoping that the enemy will fall back eventual, just coz you can tank (if you could even call it that)?

just because you may not die while using bud QoT doesnt mean she is not UP compared to other demis. Her effectiveness/efficiency does not match when compared to other demis.

Why sednas heal is so much more superior to bramles...
The only reason why ud need to heal is if your trying to get away from an enemy and ur low on health (if playing smart).

3rd heal removes all debuffs, so if you have been slowed just heal and ull get away majority of the time just coz by this time ull have the moveemnt speed increase skill. She can also pull off the highest health regen in game which always helps when trying to flee a situation again. and wat does QOT have if you need to flee? sure shes got brambles and mulch but if you moving at half your normal speed due to debuffs, brambles does delays your death that sec longer. Shes also got spike wave but you have to wait a whole 3 secs before you open up to use it.

TBH, i like going offense > heal with sedna at start coz if i can drop an enemies health much faster than they can me, then that means less fight time and less dmg caused on me. think about it. its worked for me nearly everytime.

One nicely timed Deep Freeze, Grasp, Silence, Boulder Roll, Mass Charm or 1 lucky interrupt and you're dead.

Also if you get ganked 2vs1, which happens often because you're slow as hell, it's not very fun to know you're gonna die and you can only prolong it a bit by constantly Mulching and Shielding. Slow death is not fun!

You forgot that you also need a Shambler to do that. Which costs another ~350 mana. And has to be alive.

That aside, I still think that Mulch is one of the strongest skills in the game. But Shamblers suck (micro and health and damage wise).

Have you tried playing her yet?

So a full general team is fine to be created but no full assassin teams? Cause that isn't balance between assassin and general then if generals are needs and assassins are just a big MEH?

So now QoT is OP? Isn't endgame what QoT needs a buff in. So why are you saying a level 15 skill is OP on QoT. I smell a contradiction.

Isn't priests a support skill? It by no means is a damage skill. Generals are supposed to be support and Assassins damage dealers. That was GPG and Stardocks main idea. Its just that the abilities that erebus have that are support just flatly suck. Mist just isn't powerful enough and is too much of a mana drain.

Did I even say that the support needed a buff? I don't remember saying that. No I'm saying that there are 6 damage dealers and 2 support. Not a really good balance. Now even a 5 to 3 would be better. No I say buff oak and erebus's support abilities and nerf their damage ones (very slightly mind you dont want to make their other builds useless) to encourage support in generals.

Erebus is only a damage general because mist (his main support ability) is very weak throughout most of the game. Now erebus in my mind is supposed to be support in the way that batswarm can be very effective in taking down fleeing enemies, bite is a powerful debuff, and mist is a healer. It's just that bite and his minion swarm became too powerful damage wise causing him to become a PURE damage general instead of one that can support as well. Oak isn't pure support but he has support abilities that are good and worth it. He can be just as powerful a support (if not more powerful) as he can be damage dealer. Erebus could never come close.

Thank you for the support. Very much agreed. Shamblers need a buff to their health. Take too much micromanaging and take too much mana away. Damage could stay the same but how about incorperating entorauge into the shambler summon ability and give her a whole new ability on the side. And I actually die more often endgame than early game unless the enemy isn't based on pure damage.

But this was not my point. You are taking me too literally and picking at everything I say. You didn't say anything else about that part but about that. My point is that there are builds out there that are less effective in 90% of situations than other builds. I see you didn't mention mist erebus then. I agree with what you said but give me more than 1 scenario when a full mist erebus is even worth it? Thats my point. Instead of buffing his best skill making that build more viable how about you open that player to more versitility.

Lets compare what you are doing to something else. You have a rifle and shoot someone in war. They die. Similar to erebus vs lets say TB. That one ability is effective against it. Now lets say you see a tank and shoot the rifle and decide your rifle is too weak. This is bite against someone like sedna who just heals it off. So what do you do. Get a massive rifle and shoot the tank and blow it up. Now whenever you fight infantry (TB) it's overkill. How about instead of getting a gun thats 3 times as massive get 2 guns that fight both people at once. Such as mass charming a sedna thats low on health so you can go at it with a regular bite instead of making bite more powerful so you can just brute force your way through sedna.

I agree with what you say now. Thank you for explaining. As I do play some higher level games there are things that annoy me like this. Now a good way to fix some of these things would be make switching forms faster. There are other small things that I think you saw in another post of mine. I agree she needs fixing. Nothing major just small changest to existing skills (except summon shamblers combine it with entourage and replace entourage with someone more effective maybe a stat buff to her health and move speed?)

Sorry for double post.

Guys if you want to talk about buffing QoT please stop the de rail here and make a post about it plz.

NO ok then why? because Generals have skills that keep them alive and Assassins don't which is why you need a general if you look around these forums you will see plenty of people saying "Not dying is more important than killing" which is WHY you WANT a general on your team you could NOT have a general on your team and be fine but it DEPENDS on your ability to work together...general are EASIER to support allies with than assassins whch is WHY it is highly RECOMMENDED you have a general not required but very..very highly recommended.

they r actually both rlly important.

Well if it is highly recommended then there is something wrong. I'm not saying you shouldn't need a general but you should NEED an assassin too. Erebus kills things too easily already and Oak (if played properly) has the same importants.

Gkrit look at my idea here please. I have turned around in thinking QoT not needing a buff and agree she does need a rearrange. http://forums.demigodthegame.com/367749

Ok CosMoe, if you manage to interrupt QoT's mulch shambler skill with ANY demigod, save the replay and post it pls. Because i would really like to see you try to interrupt an instant skill like this one. it is nearly impossible to be stunned! and if u manage to stun it then the QoT just have to wait a few seconds for the next one.

Only thing u have to do is save a shambler at crystal. when u are about to die just MULCH it. Poof! 2250 health instant. Mulch shambler can be used in the entire map (5000 yard range). but i dont need to tell you this. you already know it he he.

Yes i have played with QoT a few games and that is why i said before that she needs a small buff. Too much hard work. Again a level 15 skill doesnt matter to me as OP as it can be. doesnt matter.

No offence CosMoe but i dont like QoT at all! never like her. i dont even have fun with her even if i get kills (which is really hard with qot) even if i am winning.

Xaviors, where do i start?? i dont want to fill the entire page again.

Sigh.... you have confused the terms "support" and "damage dealer".

Ok i will explain. 4 generals - QoT, Sedna, Lord Erebus, Oak. 2 of them are damage dealers - Erebus, Oak. 2 are support - Sedna, QoT.

4 assasins - TB, Regulus, UB, Rook. 2 of them are damage dealers - UB, Rook. 2 are support - TB, Reg.

2 Light generals - Sedna, Oak. 2 Light assasins - Regulus, Rook.

2 Dark generals - Erebus, QoT. 2 Dark assasins - TB, UB.

TB and Regulus are SUPPORT. You dont go and kill a beast or a sedna with TB. Or with reg.

Now i dont know how the developers meant each character's role when they developed  the game. But that is how it is now.

I never said QoT is OP. i said mulch level 15 is OP. Doesnt matter for me. level 15 everyone usually says "gg". pls dont make me repeat my self. i think QoT needs a buff.

General's priests isnt a skill. Yes it is for support too. but that doesnt make these demigods support neccessarily.

Btw if you DO manage to interrupt sedna's heal with mass charm, which is a 1 sec cast spell, post a replay so that i can see you spend mana and time for no reason. nearly impossible with mass charm.

lol id like to see this too!

but if you do manage to interrupt it, it would be out of pure luck, not coz u timed it.

Yep!

This means no area damage from Mulch. Basically all you do then is let the enemy Demigod bash on you until you have to retreat.

That's why I said "lucky interrupt". It's possible but it rarely happens. It happens more often against opponents whose interrupts have the same cooldowns as QoT skill colldowns, e.g. Pentinentce. In fact, I do have an older replay where this happened unusually often, where I even thought that the enemies were cheating (which I know is impossible). Later on I saw in the replay that the Oak just spammed Pentinence as often as possible and we shared the same cooldowns. After I check if the replay works in this version I'll upload it.

Yes i believe you Cos. Same thing happened to me when i had sedna, with an enemy oak. he stunned 2 times in a row my heal while chasing me. He still didnt kill me he he. you dont need to upload. I just wanted to make my point. That you cant stun instant skills on purpose. Just with spamming and pure luck.

So since you cant always count on pure luck, you cant possibly hope to stun QoT's Mulch skill.

Btw did you really stop playing CosMoe?

I did (thanks for your concern) and hope that there's still someone playing when I return after the necessary balance patch(es) & banning of exploiters.

Concerning "lucky" interrupts you're right and that kinda leads me back to the topic:

If you want to make any of Erebus spells even stronger, then it would only be fair if they were also interruptable. So far, none of his abilities are interruptable (Mass Charm perhaps, it's 1 second cast time).

That is really sad. i guess the demigod community is losing some of its decent good players really fast.

Anyway, Erebus's abilites are all interruptable. Except Mist maybe. But Mass charm, Bite and Bat swarm are interruptable.

Yes bite also. Very rare and difficult but possible. it is as hard as interrupting QoT's Mulch shambler. Since i rarely skill mist to erebus i dont know if it can be interrupted. but all other skills of erebus can be.

Btw, i really hope that you will change your mind CosMoe and continue playing

Hey there Gkrit! WEll this is quite the contreversy eh? I for one say erebus is not in any shape or form OP. Although sometimes it may seem this way, but those are his strenghts. He is a ninja, but like Gkrit said, there are always things you can do to counter them. And the final bat swarm is very expensive, but you must take into account that it is not a Burst damage skill, just a mobility skill. this was just to make it at least useable to deal small amounts of damage with it late game. Bite is already evil enough, for what it does, but erebus has no real reason to be changed around. Yes that final skill point in Bat swarm is a total waste, but Erebus does not need a buff. Look at it this way, for every Demigod has a skill that just becomes obsolete sometime during the game, such as all of QOT's damage skills (besides uproot). This point will obviosly continue to be argued, but erebus does not need a change.

TY, coz he rlly isnt OP. i just suggested a lvl 15 version of the skill bite. we are so used to how effective bite is early-mid even late game, that i don tthink ppl are considering all the different factors why a minor buff to bite wont rlly change so much. but in the end it was just an idea as a replacement for last level swarm.

and yes i do agree with u that it is mainly used for mobility but that doesnt justify why 150 additional dmg is worth an extra 300 or so mana.

But alas, gkrit is right, because that level of Bat Swarm does not do erebus any good. For one thing, does it even add any bonus range to his skill? Not really. In my opinion, the devs had run out of ideas for erebus, and just possibly threw that one in. By level 15 that 100 bonus damage is crap. Its crap on level 1 in fact, but they must have thought it fit because erebus already has enough strenghts. They just needed something to fill that spot in, not exactly usefull i agree wholley, but once again it is hard with some balancing issues i would imagine for the devs. (It may not be ) They just needed one more skill upgrade and walla! You got a skinny teleporting bastard. Or maybe they got lazy? Anyways for 300 bonus mana, its not worth it.

No it doesnt add any range, and i agree with you. bat swarm level 3 is useless. It is clear that the devs wanted to fill an empty spot and just added a lvl 15 bat swarm.

I think 3rd swarm should inheret vampiric effect, maybe then the 3rd level of swarm could be useful.

  This has involved into very interesting post (at least for me), i wish i read it earlier cause then my post wouldnt look so worthless, but anyway i cannot hold myself from writing this. I hope you wont mind too much, cause its also far from actual post topic.

Ok,  i'll go through some highlight:

xavior:

i personaly consider that(=ground spikes/armor effect) as unbalanced(on towers), and something that should be fixed.Towers have 0 armor and with GS 4 go to -1500 armor. It's just smth that should be changed; give towers some armor, and change the way armor reduction works(specially when 'minus armor'). Qot shouldnt be Tower killer with GS, but with Uproot!

morpheas:

the truth that everybody knows, and which i dont like to be that way. Locking shouldnt be so game winning, while levels&skills are much less.

just what i said above.

I could only add that i dont like when someone (not even higher lvl than others) can take(late game-artifacts!) 3 enemies single-handedly just because he bought Bulwark and Ashkandor, while others/enemies have not(but still having all good non-artifact items), and it doesnt help them even if they spam all abilities/spells on that guy; and he just right-clicked them(without even using skills sometimes) - untouchable! It is possible for every dg to do that (not just beast), and i dont care if you say: 'dont let him come to that point', regardless, its just not right. should be better balanced.

That also should be balanced; every dg should be equally desired in one's team!

Just as i said above - there should not be: 'he is strong dg, that one isnt', but both equally strong. It is mostly balanced, but not that mostly, i would really like better balancing.

 golgoth:

Me too. (and i have number of ideas)

xavior:

We fix 5 people with a buff!

 I dont agree in general. Some stuff should be nerfed definitely, but most of them should be buffed!

cosmoe:

Yeah, exactly!    'Slow death is not fun!!'

i agree that assasins should be more viable (so far only beast is on 'high lvl', all others require very skillfull player). It is not balance imo when general without minions can act as assasin, but in fact better than real assasin! (plus having better staying power)

agreed in some parts(from my point said above). but not in all, see below. 

gkrit:

agreed

morpheas:

that seems true indeed, but as i said, i would like better balancing, and (therefore) lesser difference in classifying someone as dam dealer or support. For example, why are TB&Reg support, and UB&Rook dam deal. when they should all be classified as dam dealers(assasins!), and also all capable of being support in some other way.

edit:

on topic: i dont think bite should get 15 lvl skill, not because it will probably be op, but just it shouldnt (becouse of logic - there is no 'super bite', it is like if Ooze would get a lvl 15 skill! - the way i think). I would rather buff it again if it seems not powerful enough , and i'm against removing slow effect, maybe just that slows little less, but i'm not voting for that atm.

Sorry for massive post