Humanity at its Worst

Stupidity and ignorance should be a capital offense. That'd weed out about 90% of Earth's population - the 90% that is completely worthless.

I'm reminded of the Scott Adams defense of why he doesn't vote (this is the guy who writes Dilbert)

Any time you hear something criminally idiotic like this, repeat this to yourself like a mantra:

"And then they voted"

Right, maybe we should have let the Nazis win WW2 and put everyone who is "stupid and ignorant" in gas chambers. That could have been the ultimate advancement for the human civilization.

I'm hoping that's sarcasm,


What intrigues me the most is how someone, in this day and age, would end up like this.
I mean what went wrong? I can honestly see some people arguing the gov't should monitor, and regulate, and blah blah....., but I don't think that is the answer. The last thing we need is more control from the gov't. But you'd think that someone, whether a friend or family member or other person from the community would think that she's a little off her rocker and try to intervene.

My wife and I joke about how people should be required to have a license to reproduce. Think about how many problems could be eliminated by only allowing people of a reasonable genetic and psychological standard to breed. On the other hand, if anything could start a bloody civil revolution, that would be it.

On the subject of killing off all the dumb people, who would clean the streets, take out the garbage, etc, if we did that? They serve their purpose to society...Not that every garbage man is dumb, by any means...People come from different backgrounds of opportunity, etc.

The sad part is, on average, the poorer folks have many more children. People who don't go to college tend to have more children than those who do, etc. Over time, what will this trend do to the gene pool?

Then you have the "compatibility" factor...Reasonably intelligent people tend to marry other intelligent people, at least in my experience in this day and age. Will this tend to create a subculture division where you have more smart-smart parent-combinations for children and dumb-dumb combinations than smart-dumb? So the intellectual divide will keep increasing between the two subcultures? I suppose one way to detect this would be by looking at the IQ-test (assuming that thing is a decent measure of intelligence) distribution...If its a normal bell-shape, than we don't have this "subculture" division yet...If we start seeing the IQ distribution change to have two "peaks" that could be a sign that this subculture phenomena is starting to manifest itself... In fact, an early warning could be if the current peak's "length" extends...Which could be two "peaks" close to each other.

Ah well, I guess thats enough reminiscing on this topic, was bored . Hope it made some sense...I suppose this was a pet topic of mine, discussed many times during late nights at my University with friends...In between working like crazy...Knew I should have gone to a party school!

Fernando - the Carnegie Mellon CS graduate

While I can agree with some points that you and others have made the question soon becomes; what is the bar and who gets to set such a standard? Who doesn’t have a flaw of their own that another would deem unacceptable.

Speaking of flaws, we could consider the effect of medical advances on the gene pool as well. People with deadly defects used to die, those with debilitating ones used to not reproduce...In many cases, both those cases have them be "cured" or "treated"...But the genetic predilection for those conditions gets passed on to their children now... Which means, every generation we have more and more medical problems which need to be treated. Certainly, looking at many medical surveys done in the last 50 years, this trend can be seen. Scary trends, very scary. I'm hopeful that genetic "manipulation", a part of medical science which will undergo a drastic evolution in the next 20 years, will help us solve this problem. Thats if we can resolve all the ideological (many religious) objections to such manipulation...

Can't say i'm not intrigued by the more controversial of these "manipulations" which will become available to us in the next 20-50 years. Reminds me of that movie "Gatica" .

-Fernando

Despite these human tragedies, and on a larger scale, organized crime, religious wars, the energy crisis, all that stuff...

I'm an optimist. The power of the human mind is incredible. Understanding that while the universe tends to entropy, the Earth tends to equilibrium is a very strong guiding force.

Yeah, you can focus on the bad things. And that will depress you. How about focusing on the good things?

We eradicated Smallpox in 1979. A disease which killed millions of people every year. There hasn't been a major war on the scale of WWII in over 60 years, and there likely never will be again. We're too interconnected, too interdependent. Look up the "Dell Theory of Conflict Prevention." You're posting on the internet, something which has grown at a truly unsurpassed rate compared to anything else mankind has ever created.

Our creative potential is limited only by our knowledge, and our knowledge by our perception. The great thing is that knowledge drives perception, and perception drives knowledge. It builds itself, it's a vicious cycle and it's truly beautiful and elegant. New ways to look at things brings more knowledge, which brings more understanding. Yeah, a lot of people are ignorant, you'll always have some small tragedies. But the world is looking up, as a whole.

Will we hit some speed bumps? Yes. The oil age is reaching its end. Moore's Law will only last until about 2020. And yet, alternative energy grows at an unprecedented rate, you see developments now that we would have thought impossible years ago. Eventually we'll hit economic parity, and there will be a boom. A surge in preserving the planet, even if it's misguided self-interest, it will happen. Computers are reaching the point where Moore's Law is only partially relevant. New technologies, ubiquitous computing, it's all there. Mankind is on a very solid path, as a whole. Yeah, there are tragedies, and there are growing pains. But we'll make it.

I say this as one of the proud engineers of our species. Some people say that if we can't fix our mistakes, then we deserve to die off. I say that's not true - 90% of the planet had nothing to do with our mistakes. They don't comprehend or understand, they're unfortunately ignorant and powerless and they deserve better. Those of us who are well-educated have a duty to provide the future. And we're doing it.

(M.S.E.E. - Alternative Energy and Space Applications)

Very good post, Mr. Lemming. I heartily agree that scientific progress will either save us...or destroy us. Hopefully the former. I'm sure your familiar with how quickly mankind is progressing now versus what we did 50 years ago. I only expect this "race towards the future" to speed up...

At the same time, watching the US's progress in their space program with NASA over the last 30+ years...Well, its been sad to say the least. God knows I wish we invested more into their funding, as i'm sure many in this galciv site agree... But at the same time, their getting 16 billion a year, you'd expect SOME progress... It finally takes China's move into space and their "moon target" to push us to some action? Sad...

-Fernando
(M.S.C.S - Operating Systems and Artificial Intelligence focuses)

I have to agree with King Lemming. Yes, humanity can be evil and cruel but it can also be loving, kind, and creative. People love to focus on the negative. And while I am not saying we should ignore the negative we should however, celebrate the positive. My brother and sister in law help build and distribute bicycles for needy children every Christmas. Is there never ending news coverage of it? Nope. The war in Iraq was front page every day for weeks on end when things were getting worse. Now, it’s war, what war? Sadly, it is in human nature to focus on the negative.

Here is a story, a scientific study was conducted with two children, one a pessimist the other an optimist. The pessimist child was placed in a room full of toys. The optimistic child was placed in a room with a barrel of horse manure. After observing the pessimistic child for an hour the child did nothing but complain about how the toys, didn't work, weren’t any fun or had no batteries. The scientists then left the room and walked down the hall to the other room. On entering the room the scientists were both struck by manure as the optimistic child was bent over in the barrel flinging horse manure out to get to the bottom of the barrel. Seeing the scientists enter the room the boy exclaimed, "I know there is a pony in here somewhere."

Life is what you make it. An education or intelligence is no indication of how good or bad a person is in life. Look at the upper management at Enron. All were highly educated people. All had no qualms about scamming their investors and employees out of their life savings so that they could make a few extra dollars. Deciding to eliminate the "stupid" people won't solve the world's problems. A high intelligence is not an indication of high morals. We used to study ethics in school. We used to criticize or castigate people with low moral or ethical standards. Not any more. People like Brittany Spears make millions as the world watches their lives spiral into the toilet. If we started stressing morals more and quit excusing bad behavior the world be a better place. Instead, we get, let’s kill the stupid people. That’s a solution? I’m just glad the “smart” people don’t run the world.

And then he voted.

Many of you have good points. But many more bad, falisied points. The worst is the aspect of perceived intelligence level and subculture seperation. One of the biggest problems with going along with these perceptions is that the ones creating and pushing them are the ones who's families are long time (multi-generation) power mongers. Just because the family background is great, and their families have the most wealth in the world, does not mean that they are the intellectual leaders to make such claims. Most of the people have carried on from handed down fortunes started at points in history that were very down-turned, both socially and finacially. Those very people that started the family legacies were themselves deamed intelligence morons! Did that prove the falisied claims right? No! But time has proven that genious is virtually never handed down. Why? Because too many of the decendants of those great people may have gone to the best universities in the world, but they learned that great and exploitation gains more faster than intelligence. So who is the real intellectuals of this world? The average person on the street! They learn the real value of things. They believe in the truth of families and friends helping each other. They understand that too much power and wealth are the real culprets of decay in civilization. And most of all, they understand common cense; which 99.99% of the intellectuals constantly, consistantly cannot comprehend! It's these intellectual power mongers that cause the real problems of this world. Without them most of mankind would work together, and we would already be where our dreams and knowledge should be.

So, by factual definition, the rolls dumb and smart (as have been stated previously) are acutally revesersed. And you believe those previously claims are true, it's because (there again) you're one of them. So under factual definitions your types should be the ones eliminated. Think on that and decide just who each one of us truly are!

And then he was reduced to a moronic quote.

The baby in the microwave is a result of the failure of multiple things: school system, family system, support systems that we had since the beginning of mankind. Maturity is not a measure of how old you are, but how many little lessons in life you have learn on the way by making minor stupid mistakes. What do you expect if kid were to raise another kid? When people are overwhelmed by stress and tiredness...you don't think straight...you do stupid things...like trying to drive a car when you're sleepy.

Remember the saying "It takes a village to raise a child?" It was very true...but we don't live in villages any more...we live in cities.
In the early cities of 1900s where children went to work, adults had no problems yelling at misbehaving kids on the street. Parents were ashamed, if another adult had to educate their kids. Towards the 1940s-1960s the school system began to take over, teachers had a lot of respect from parents and a parent was usually at home to teach the kids.

When schools don't teach basic morals and parents isn't on the teacher's side...
The quality of teachers decline...good teachers don't like to go to weekly parent meetings; where the parent supports their whiny kid's story. Good-smart teachers will find a better job elsewhere. So...what kind of teachers you think are left? This is especially a big problem in inner cities.

Kids these days learn most from TV....kiss..kiss..1hr later have sex. TV shows no longer care if their episodes have an important life lesson, rather whether it pushes the borders of sex, violence, or stupid reality shows were drama=ratings.
For example, reality dating, 1 guy suppose to eliminate all the girls until there's one girl left...always pick the girl that most crazy about him. The logic is the quicker a girl falls for you, the quicker she can hate you as well. The girl that said she doesn't care if she gets picked or not; as long as the guy is happy...always get eliminated (that just so stupid). There is no short-cut...it takes 4-5 years to really know a person...because people change.

Now in the modern day cities, we tend to isolate...don't live with extended family. Both parents are at work, both are exhausted, or even worst for a single parent. Usually, you raise your kid equal or worst than how your parents raise you. The only way you raise your kid better than your parent raised you; is if you seen better parenting skills, or you had some practice in the form of taking care of a much much younger sibling, or you contemplate on how you want to raise your kid.

These days, parents will yell at you for trying to teach their kids manners or anything. Their too proud of their "lack of parenting skills" to admit they raise a kid to be dumb.

So these days....it's not a bad idea to give new parents a basic manual on how to raise a baby...because some folks are too busy, too dumb, too tired, too lazy to go online or bookstores...or too ashamed to call their parents. You have messed up parents...from the rich (Britney Spears) to the $10/hr working class.

And then he voted - and judging by his rant, for a libertarian.

After reading that several times to sort out the worst of the syntax, grammar, and spelling errors, I think part of your problem is that you are confusing power (political, economic, or any other type) with intelligence. The two are not synonymous.

Intelligence of the type that should be lauded and held up for example can be found at every level of society. So can stupidity so great that the people involved should not be allowed to breed. Call me a pessimist, but it seems to me that humanity tends toward the stupid end of that spectrum. Thankfully, the same "intellectual power mongers" you complain about drag the rest of us forward. God help us all if progress depends on the average person in the street.

I thoroughly enjoyed your rant about the wealthy families. A quick flip through the Forbes billionaire list shows only 3 in the top 10 (I lack patience, you can look further if you like) had any inherited fortune at all, and only one got his fortune solely through inheritance. The rest started at average or below and made something that changed the world. If they don't deserve to be called intelligent, I don't know who does. Even the inherited ones had fortunes only a generation or two old.

One disclaimer - the British royal family is never classified on that list, and for good reason. Although the wealth is not held entirely by one person, the corporate wealth the whole family controls would beggar the imagination. Many aspects of it defy estimation - for example, the collections of art would wreck the world market if they were ever to be sold. Similarly, parts of the real estate market are also dominated by the royal family. So yes, there is ONE example of lasting hereditary wealth, but the royal family hasn't been "intellectual power mongers" for some time.

Think of it as shorthand for "This person has just said/done something so outrageously stupid they should not be trusted to make decisions that could affect the lives of others."

DarkStar7

It doesn't really take a village, it DOES take parental accountability. The operational factor is that the parents suffer consequences (social, legal, monetary, etc) for the misbehaviors of their children. Don't blame TV or anything else, it is the parents' fault for not instructing the child properly. Of course, most forms of parental education that actually work will get the parent arrested in today's legal environment, but that's another discussion entirely.

The parenting manual might be a good idea, but the ones that would actually read it are the ones that would seek advice on their own, anyway.

The good news is that those problems can all be fixed. Assuming she can manage to cry on cue, she'll get off the murder rap. That means she'll be elligible to sue for the wrongful death of her child. I'm sure she'll start with GE, for not putting a warning label on the microwave. But rest assured all those other guilty parties are going to get named as well.

Yeah, gotta love the American "justice" system. In any reasonable system, she'd be hanged, ideally withing 48 hours of the offense. It's still like that in some places in the world, and most westerners see those cultures as barbaric. Odd how we have crap like this happening, and they don't, isn't it?

Innocent until Proven Guilty. She has not been proven Guilty. Yet. We are not the Jury.

Yeah, we should emulate the justice system in Iran where they have instant justice. Where women sold off by their families as sex slaves get the death penalty because the women have somehow corrupted the morals of societies. Yeah, I want to live there. (not!) The crime lab in Harris County TX, (Houston) has been closed repeatedly because of poor record keeping, poor evidence handling, water leaking through the roof, and CSI techs perjuring themselves on the stand. In one case a man spent 16 years in Prison after the victim ID the accused and the crime lab said his DNA matched. This guy’s brother admitted to the crime and when the DNA evidence was independently tested he was exonerated. It was later discovered that the crime lab employees would support the police department without even testing the evidence in some cases. The real crime here is that the man who actually committed the crime can’t be tried because the statute of limitations ran out and an innocent man spent 16 years of his life in prison.

No system of justice will ever be perfect because human beings will never be perfect. They had a case yesterday in Galveston TX where the father of an infant child tossed his baby out of a car window while he drove down the road and then drove off. Instinctually I just want to hang him from the nearest tree. Unless we as a society address the lack of moral education then it will never stop. I could put a bullet in that guys head and it wouldn't stop this type of crime. Until, we can get past 'it feels good so do it mentality', and bring back the concept of shame stories like this will become more and more prevalent. I don't know why people are suprised by where we are at as a society today. A former President perjures himself in deposition for a rape trial and we excuse it as, ‘well of course he lied. It was just about sex.’ Or a mayor gets arrested for doing crack, goes to jail, and gets reelected as mayor. This attitude permeates all of society. It isn’t about money or power it’s all about not openly criticizing people’s bad behavior publicly.

Interestingly enough, her defense is that she was too drunk at the time to put the baby in the microwave, so it must have been someone else. Oddly enough she wasn't drunk enough to take the baby to the hospital. The defense is not contesting that the baby was in the microwave, which is odd.

While people can argue parents are a cause, one thing not taken into account (I'm gonna guess it more due to our collective ubringing) is are there parents? Biologically yes, But I'd be willing to bet that China Arnold's baby was unintentional. There is no father figure. I'd even go a step further and say the same of her.

I live in this city and I can say that children born into this are/class of society don't really have parents. Many kids are fatherless ("Oh he's my baby's daddy, but he got other kids and is locked up for 5 years") in the strictess sense of the word. The most they might see of a father figure is various "boyfriends" who most likely don't have the child's intrest at heart and the child grows up in a poor, abusive environment (I've seen examples where kids were forced to live in cupboards and closets). Many of these parents don't have education (got preggers dropped out, got into crime), they don't have jobs (gov't hand outs, social security, gov't housing, etc), and probably are exposed or involved in drugs.

You all have good points. Society as a whole does de-emphasize the family.



I'm confused, where is the Poor Gene? IIRC, Social Darwinism was/is a joke. For someone in an academic setting, I'm sure you know that. The Richer have fewer chilren as a child is more of a nuisance or a chore (need babysitters, nannies, tutoring, etc) It distracts and drains the parents from their true desires, career and social status. In some families the childs is more of an addon to the social status (Don't want to be that weird childless couple at the cocktail party no do you?) I think most of you can relate to this as I"m guessing that most of you hail from middle or higher classes ($50K on up). Mommy and Daddy Push you to go to college, say you wouldn't "Have the oppurtunities" if you didn't? Make sure it a marketable major too! Of course having a son/daughter that is a short order cook or garbage man just isn't as good sounding as "attending college" or "Working for a business firm, or engineering dept"

For us, dumb poor people, I don't really care if I make Partner at "the firm" or if I have the fanciest Jag. As a Working Joe, family and friends are very important cause that's all we have.

tlwhite01, I think you've made a few assumptions... I was the one to mention the whole "aspect of perceived intelligence level and subculture seperation."... My mother was the first one in my family to go to College and i'd say we definitely are "middle class" given how I'm still paying off college loans at age 28... If that qualifies as a "power monger" family, I have no response...heh.

I certainly agree with you that having money does not indicate intelligence. Many of the most intelligent people I know have very little interest in money. They just make enough to get the things they want in life, be able to take the occasional vacation, etc.

I don't believe the whole "subculture separation" I spoke about has that much correlation to a rich/poor division. I was simply taking the assumption that a "very smart" person tends to marry other "very smart" people...Interesting conversation, etc etc. I'm personally lucky that my wife is "smarter" than myself, I have very little patience with most people. I use quotes for "smarter" since everyone has different areas of strength. Creativity, analytical ability, etc etc.

Regarding the whole monetary issue, I would postulate that the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to have a "decent" monetary lifestyle...For who wants to be living with foodstamps, etc...And if you are 1-2 standard deviations above the average in intelligence, you certainly have the ability to improve your situation.

Let me end by agreeing whole-heartedly that intelligence does not make a "good" or "bad" person. Someone mentioned Enron in a post above... I'll throw in another instance, Hitler's most highly placed people were extremely educated (and thus "intelligent")...and yet they did monstrous things. I would not say the average college graduate is any "better" of a person than the normal joe.

At the same time, if intelligence is neutral regarding whether someone is a "good" or "bad" person...It is certainly a positive attribute as it empowers the individual.

So what we really want is intelligent good people. If we can't have that? I guess we settle for just good .

-Fernando

Yes im sorry but if your parents gene's make a diference in your born IQ then so does race   
It just more BS, I would say its the parents themselfs who make the child into a "smart" person and not a "dumb" person not the gene's.

Sooooo what your trying to say is I R a NAZI!!!
The only ppl who should get gas chambered is ppl who talk about killing other ppl R saying only the smart people should be allowed to live are reproduce.





Just reading the first few posts makes me sick knowing many of you are part of the same race as humanity. (not that humanity is great at all but one day if we don't kill each off we could be)   
Ya should have been born as Pig Men and feed to the Fat 300+lbs smart people who piss their education away in front of the video games  
In truth you need things like these forums to make yourself feel better for your very very very very pointless existance.
No matter your smartness your still a useless bag of meat like the rest of humanity so deal with it R do something that will actualy better everyone.


Sorry but this kind of shit pisses me off.
Whats for next subject?? maybe we can start being racist!   



RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

I agree with you. Humanity will make it. Unfortunately, not many people you meet can look at humanity in perspective, as a united civilization. They divide themselves by country, region, religion etc. and can't see humanity as one. Only maturity, and perspective, knowledge and perception can allow us to become a United Earth, a Terran Alliance.

IMO, things like Pale Blue Dot(the photo) should be widespread just to put people in a perspective vortex, just to show them how pathetic humanity really is and how they must strive to advance it. Here's the text from Carl Sagan's speech, on Wikipedia:

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

Things like that picture, and seeing Earth in the GC2:DA opening movie(helpless, surrounded by Drengin, protected and imprisoned by the Salvation Device) are saddening.
...
But we'll make it. Eventually.