Must...resist...urge...to...drop...120k...ZYW...

Congrats Snarkotamus!

I dont think you can do it Sole Soul.    Hehe...

Sentient species taste better...

I wouldn't want a ZYW to be my first MV game anyway...I'd rather drop a Mumbler.

Oh, and I just bumped myself out of 13th place on Friday the 13th. Damn shame it wasn't Win No. 130.

I have a 134K ZYW MV game i could submit. It's a flagged game though, a March 8th win. I was curious as to what score i could get for the quickest possible win.

Come to think of it, i prolly don't have the save anymore, but it could easily be replicated.

As for 120K, well we all thought 90K was near impossible to break, then 100K. Given enough time and patience i think 120K is doable.

That would be one perfect map though. 4 librarys, 10K+ in anomalies, and a 3rd planet real close by to colonize.

I predicted we'll see 150k eventually in the ZYW thread.

I could have easily said that it would be mine, but I honestly don't have any idea what kind of impact what I intend to try (as soon as I feel up to it, and again, assuming I'm going to start MVing I'd want to drop a Mumbler first before a ZYW, albeit on different characters), simply because it hasn't been tried before.

I don't know about that. Im sure KP is like me and has tried many various ways to get more points in a ZYW. I know i have tried some really weird strats.

Thats not to say you don't hold the key to a better game though.

I think the uppper limit cant be more than 125k.  No matter how much money from anomalies you might find, you will always be limited by the # of planet tiles, and hence there is an upper limit on research score.  With something totally freaky like a dozen libraries and 20 1000bc anomalies you could score a lot higher, but frankly, thats not happening.  The odds would probably be quadrillions to one against.  There are too many variables that need to coincide fortuitously.

Sentient species taste better...

Having a minor real close to your starting position, and i mean real close, may allow an extra planet or two to colonize/invade thus raising the # of techs that can be reseaerched each turn and in turn, allowing you to make full use of the research output from 3 or more library's.

You would of course have to hit that minor very quick and that would alter the optium research path. I guess with enough tweaking one may find the best approach using that method but who is to know if it would yeild a 110+ score.

I think we are getting close to the ceiling of what score can be achieved through the tried and tested Min cash VS max research output each turn. Painstaking and tedious as it is i think it's the only way for further improvement, albeit by only a few K.

I just blast each game though. 109K in around 5 mins of game time is enough for me. I'm pretty taped out on finding more tweaks.

Though KP mentioned sending a 115K write up to anyone interested.

Anyone???

I've scored above 110k a few dozen times now, so I know what is needed for that.   The main problem with the idea of encountering the a minor early enough to be of great benefit, is that it would cause a necesarry change in your research order (for invasion or Spore tech), which in turn would cause a serious disruption in your ability to get cash from the major civ at the earliest possible date of March 1.  You would have to sacrifice "yellow" techs you really need to make tech-trading a viable option.  Then there would be the increased maintenance costs from another planet and more buildings.  You would need about 10 1000bc cash anomalies, and the most I've ever had in a ZYW is 3 maybe 4.  The most libraries I've ever had was 4, and I couldnt afford to use all of them.  I cant see it working.

I'll make a deal with you Neilo, send me latest ToE ZYW strategy, and I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.   Seriously though, we do like to have 1 or 2 small secrets.

Sentient species taste better...

I'm 2 years 4 months into my latest Swindle, which is my first on a gigantic map.  I havent had any beneficial random events, including the crucial econ boom.  Without any events I estimate the game would come in a little over 900k.  With an econ boom....it would be a lot higher.

Sentient species taste better...

Research isn't what (probably) will push it over 120k. 

I definitely agree.  It would have to be a completely different strategy.  It took the efforts of many people, Wyndstar (initially), Magnumaniac, MottiKhan, myself, Neilo, and others to get the scores to the point they are now.  A bit of history on the ZYW...  Initially we always did them on Tiny maps and the upper limit of score was about 40k.  It was much more economy focused, and money is a lot more plentiful, due to being able to contact many minor civs.  The +700% library never appears on the tiny maps though.  That was the initial reason I had for trying ZYWs on different sized maps, which led me to realize that the way in which research scales will result in much higher scores on larger sized maps.  The larger the map size, the larger the scaling effect, and therefore score.  For the gigantic ZYWs, tech is by far the largest score component.  Here is a breakdown from a typical game:  econ - 784, tech - 2687, econ - 785, mil - 0.  This game scored about 106k, which is decent, but not exceptional.

I wouldnt put it past you figuring out something totally new though. 

Sentient species taste better...

Though he may not have been vocal about it on the GC2 boards, and so you would not know KP, but Piznit was also very involved in the ZYW efforts.

Just about to the minute that Wyndstar posted the spark that ignited it all Piznit and myself were hashing out details on the ToE forums.

Like i said, you were not to know of course KP but i wouldn't feel right if Piz's name was not also thrown into the ring.

To keep your secret's secret, how about for 100k write up for anyone like me.        Mmm Couldn't harm the Mighty Kzinti new still we are Mmm

It would seem based on preliminary testing (read: not actual games) that my method would only increase the score by perhaps 8-12k, assuming I could find a way to afford it along with everything else, which is not a given.  I was expecting it to be easily double this, perhaps even triple, but I ran into a game mechanic that is buried so deeply no one has even looked for it before (although at least KP has run across it, without knowing exactly what it was), which I'm still chasing down.

Well as they say SS, 3 heads are better than 1...or something to that affect.

Fill us in on what your trying to do and between us we may figure out a way to nail it.

I was wondering if I had left out someone in the ToE I was not aware of.  Thanks.

I'll be happy to help you out GmOOnii.  I'll send a PM tomorrow at some point.  Bed-time now though.

I have a couple ideas that may be what you are talking about.

Sentient species taste better...

Quoting Clanlindsey

"There is an even better way though. Instead of using a blank cargo hold, use a blank tiny hull. They only cost 25 bc so you can make six of these in the same time it takes to make 1 colony ship or 3 blank cargos. I believe they are cheaper to upgrade to a tiny colonizer than the blank cargo hull."

I some info I like to share with Clanindsey and everyone else that has help me alot.   At that the start of the Planet Rush ( no to very low tech),  Going to try the tiny ship thingy I am.

Question:  No engines move a at 1 pc but I am making them faster  but AI is making slower and is moving faster like 3pc.  What is the catch?  I think I should mix my ship thingy with these three types of ships.   In my next game I will.  Putting Ideals together  I am. Please,  let me know that I am on the right track?

AUX-Queen-Ma -  (1 Hyper Engi, 2 Basic Sens, 1Colony Modu), costs 139 bc now is that like 1390 bc to buy outright, Right? .....opps this a cargo ship 

AUX-Queen-Na -(2 Hyper Engi) it's a fast blank, costs 119bc .....opps this a cargo ship

I-Nuri-  -    Dua Class ( no engine, (can change to Colony Trans or Planet Patrol) its very slow blank,  cost 25 bc so to but outright it cost 250 bc, right. .....opps this a tiny ship.

To upgade I-Nuri- - to I-Nuri-J - it costs 288 bc so that is 2,880 bc  outright with 1 m  Colonist

I-Nuri-J -   Dua Class  (no engine, 1 Colony  Modu) cost 75 bc  .....opps this a tiny ship that has been upgraded.

I have made a template and a upgrade to throw at you all.

@ Neilo, do you recognize the name of the ship?  Oh  I am sorry, for people that don't live around here, Nuri is a famous bird in Indonesia that changes its colors  that why I choose the name. Kool Uh ! So what do you think?

1) Take +2 speed with your customization points.  It's a lifesaver until you get to the point where you need military and/or social more (yes, there is such a point).

2) Play TA for a base speed of 2 rather than 1.  You might also consider playing the Terrans, Drengin, Altarians IIRC, and perhaps one other TA race, as they all get another +1 speed on top of that.  The Terran tech tree is particularly beneficial, as the SP that you get on the first turn increases your ship speed for ships built on the planet by 1.

3) Research up to Impulse Drive as soon as possible; even if you don't add it to your ships, it increases their speed by 1.

With all of these you should be at 2+2+1+1+1=7 speed tiny ships without engines with minimal investment.

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139BC: 1362BC rush buy cost
119BC: 1146BC rush buy cost
25BC: 204BC rush buy cost
288BC: Sounds about right for an upgrade.  (Note: Upgrades follow roughly the same formula as rush buy, although I never got around to nailing it down.  You can't rush buy an upgrade.)
75BC: 690BC rush buy cost

Rush buy cost: [ (Ship/improvement cost) - (production already spent, including previous building if applicable) ] ^ 1.1 --> truncated --> * 6

So 25 ^ 1.1 = 34.4932415365303708097515866054, or 34 when truncated.  34 * 6 = 204

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CL, are you doing straight rush buys, longest lease, or what?

It depends. A few tiny's get built normally as my starports have to have something to do, but most of them are rush bought straight buys. Capital ships are long-term leases.

Edit: I'm so tired I read this wrong initially, which is what made me think I knew that part.  Interesting.

Wouldn't it be more efficient the other way around?

I was pretty exhausted writing it so no worries. Too much whiskey yesterday left me with an upset tummy all night. Theoretically it might be more sensible the other way round but in actual practice what I am doing is just setting all starports to spam tiny blanks. If they build one great, if not, no worries. When they are built, they are not necessarily immediately useful though because they may be far away from where I need them. Therefore I rush buy blanks at locations where I actually need them. So some blanks are built, some are bought, and it all has to do with location, location, location.

I decided to make this map of what I think the MV Empires territories looks like,

Any comments, questions, suggestons?

comment: you may soon need to update that