How do I tell my Ally to attack another race???

You can't issue commands to an ally (they're an ally, not a minion, after all). If you made the alliance after the war began, or if you're the agressor, they won't automatically declare war. The best you can hope for is to bribe them into it, but if their relations with the enemy are too high then it may not even be an option.

That's the thing I'm not getting.... if they value my 'alliance' at all, they would be open to ending E./R. Treaties with races that are enemies of mine... or be open to attacking races I was interested in attacking.

The "options" are lacking in this arena imo.
There needs to be WAY more options in terms of communicating - not only with enemies, but esPecially with friends/allies.

What is the difference between "Ally" and "Team"???

THks,


Chr*s

I can think of many real world examples over the last century where two nations have been allies. For example through NATO or the EU. Yet one has been at war with a 3rd country while the other has maintained trade relations.

Teams can't be broken.

thk you sir ^

Now: if I have a teammate, and I win by eliminating ALL other races - I assume that my teammate also "wins" the game alongside me..?....

Same for an Ally?


I have yet to win a game with anyone on my side, which is why I'm asking such basic questions.

Hell, I had the Thalans as my Ally in my latest game, BUT, (lol) I turned on them at the last minute for fun - and also because I didn't know if they would simply turn into an enemy after I defeated the last 'enemy of mine' or not.

Maybe a better way of phrasing the OP is to say: "How do I coordinate an attack with my allies?"

In Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, you could convince an ally to join you in conflict with another faction. Once you were both in "Vendetta" status with the same enemy, you could contact the faction leader and coordinate your attack on a specific city, or tell them to engage the enemy as they saw fit. Based on your relationship with that faction, and their own goals, they would either comply or refuse. Since the AI wasn't all that bright in that regard, it would often forge ahead with no consideration for how the attack affected them.

So, it seems in GCII, there should be a way, perhaps within the negotiations/contact screen, to suggest to an ally to attack a base, planet, or specific coordinate in space. And the ally could also supplicate the player, or other civs, for the same, since supposedly the AI sees human players and other civs as the same separate entities. Though put this way, I suppose this would require significant reprogramming, since we now have a new web of relationships to manage.

Another feature of SMAC that I liked, and added a certain amount of stress to the game, was that if you constantly contacted another faction leader for any reason, they would slowly become irritated with you.

and i think translations into all the foreign languages impacts their abilities to do this....it would be nice if GCII could be better than this game in that way or another game in another way, but bottom line is, its fun with its limitations.

"So, it seems in GCII, there should be a way, perhaps within the negotiations/contact screen, to suggest to an ally to attack a base, planet, or specific coordinate in space. And the ally could also supplicate the player, or other civs, for the same, since supposedly the AI sees human players and other civs as the same separate entities. Though put this way, I suppose this would require significant reprogramming, since we now have a new web of relationships to manage."

This is EXACTLY what I figured the game already 'came with'.

: (

I never seem to have any problem bribing one race to attack another. If you attack a race, I don't see any reason for your allies to automatically jump in. You're the aggressor.

If you want allied help with a war, park a bunch of transports next to some enemy planets. The owner will declare war on you and your allies will respond with a declaration of war against your enemy. Or, you can bribe your allies to attack an enemy.

"Bribe them to attack"

I tried to do that by placing money on their side, and choosing that 'attack' option - YET there were no races available in that slot to pick for my ally to attack..

That's kinda what I'm lost on here... figured I could at least pay races to get into it with each other esPecially since I'm being attacked routinely because 'some race paid them to attack me/etc'.

Just to make sure, you are picking the attack options on the right side (your ally) and offering money on the left (your side), correct? Reversing the two could be oddly inconvenient.

Also, even if you are doing it right, your ally's relations with the intended victim must be "neutral" or worse.

If they're not listed under "attack" that means your ally is friends with that race, and refuses to attack them. So you're on your own. Break the alliance with them if you're pissed at them .

Obviously, you're not going to be able to bribe a race to attack one that has either got a much stronger military or has good relations. In that case, getting an enemy to declare war on you is the only option for allied assistance. Parking transports is not the only way to get an enemy to declare war. Influence starbases can also generate hostility. BTW, if your enemy is also allied with your ally, it cancels. If the enemy declares war on you, there will be no response from your ally. I pay attention to this when looking at who's going to declare war when I attack a race. When there are many alliances in the galaxy, one attack can light up the whole board. But, I usually don't see many alliances because I often bribe for attacks early and with as many races as possible. Among several advantages to a galaxy in constant turmoil, good relations are easier to forge when they're all fighting eachother.

My problem with this context is that so far we don't get nearly enough info about *why* an AI might not have another AI on its list of possible attack targets. I'm hoping future developments in the Diplo area will let us see a small report, kind of like the plus/minus stuff you see on your own Diplo screen.

That could at least let you know that possibly giving a batch of ships could help an ally work up the courage to take your next cash bribe and attack. I don't know of any other way to deliberately reduce an enemy's standing with an ally or other AI.

But this thread also reminds me of the various complaints about DA spies and/or the "boring" intelligence slider in DL. In addition to wanting an option to spend so I can know things like "they're not scared of AI-X, but they have been friends a long time and have strong trade links," I want to be able to apply my spys to a task like "Undermine relations between AI-X and AI-Y."

You can disrupt relations between your enemy and your ally.... Give your ally influence or military starbases in your enemies territory and or give your ally planets in your enemies territory. If your enemy is very powerful then you will need to design very fast constructors and gather enough to build a nice military starbase in 1 turn in his territory and gift it to your ally before the enemy has a chance to kill it.

More involved diplomacy has always been something people have asked for a lot. There was big talk by Stardock of improvements in DA versus DL, but the only thing I've noticed is a couple new treaty types. Otherwise, diplomacy is pretty much the same minus the ability to trade whenever you want. I think there are lots of things that can be done to expand the diplomacy aspect of the game and sadly, we didn't see much in DA. In fact, I think diplomacy took a turn for the worse. Hopefully, we'll see something exciting in TA. And don't get me started on the abortion they call the new espionage system. Gosh, I hope I don't see that steamer in TA.

Uhhhh....World War One and Two.

But back onto the AI and alliances. That just doesn't seem fair that the AI delays an attack when they have an alliance. When the player's AI ally attacks they have to honor their allaince or back out of it. Why doesn't this apple to the AI?

I think you meant 'aborition'?

Anyway, i have not yet played DA but i have seen allot of posts on the new espionage system. For those that use it, it just looks like cheese, and for those who do not use it, it looks like an intense irritant. Either way the word 'aborition' is indeed apropriate!

Here here. This was one of the most interesting aspects of the game, and it has, in my opinion, been neglected to near death. As a matter of fact, other aspects of the game have been enhanced, or nerfed, to the point where diplomacy is an inconsequential factor.

I have to disagree with you on this point. The ability to do damage to an enemy without engaging in full fledged war is a good one. I do agree with you in that some have found ways to take advantage; dropping a spy onto a farming tile to decrease population prior to invasion should be disallowed, but all in all, I like the system. My one complaint would be the lack of 'soft' espionage. IE, the ability to gain information about another civ without actually causing any damage.

Yes, this can be quite frustrating. I can understand the obvious reasons; alliances, treaties, and the like, but as often as not, the reason is a mystery. I don't necessarily need this to be spelled out in the game, but I would like it to be written down in black and white somewhere.

In terms of invasion, morale buildings are better targets than farms - when you hit a farm, you have to wait a turn for the population to die off. A morale hit is effective as soon as you reselect the planet (more on that below), but you have to wait a turn for the population to die off from a farm hit. But a farm is a much better target in terms of influence, or to weaken a planet for someone else.

One thing that has always bugged me is that an Orbital Fleet Manager can't be hit with a spy. I can see how it might be unbalancing, but it's such a logical target... 

As far as the morale building spy issue, perhaps one of the Stardock people may want to look into it. Putting a spy on a morale building does not affect morale until the planet is reselected. Likewise, if the population decreases (from a failed invasion, for example) the morale won't be adjusted unless the planet is reselected, allowing another transport to hit the planet and exploit the artificially low morale.

I would also like to have a better idea of whether or not the races in the galaxy are friends/enemies with each other and on what scale/degree this is so and why.

great post!

I can understand NOT being able to get an Ally to go to war with a race that it's also allies with... that makes sense, BUT why can I not get him to go to war with a race that's "stronger" than my Ally? That really ticks me off though, if I'm willing to take the plunge; there should definitely be a way to get him to take the plunge with me.

As of now, Allies don't really feel like Allies to me... dunno...

Yes sir, that's the way I'm trying to do it.


I'm seeing that now : )

Sounds like a swell idea except for giving away planets... firstly, they're SO hard to come by, and 2nd, I need that income to sustain my military... Unless I owned well over 20 planets, I don't see how I could just "give away" a planet.

I'm definitely liking the idea of sharing a freshly made M. Starbase that was constructed in enemy territory.  

daaaaaaaaaamn

FABULOUS point!!


I'd also like to know the reason why the AI doesn't have to abide by this rule... (fishy for sure)