I'm curious if anyone has problems with non conquest wins

I'd say you should put in more opponents. I play with the full 9. This increases the number of allies you can get and targets for the warmongers out there; so if the Drengin are on the warpath there are 7 other races apart from you they can fight.

But in the end you're probably going to go to war with *somebody*. And don't give into extortion. It just makes you look weak and they declare war soon anyway.

Thanks I'll try that, it's just frustrating me that I can't seem to beat the game in a peaceful manner. If I try a influence game they destroy all of my starbases when they declare war and I usually don't have time to arm them and if I try a tech victory I have to stop focusing on that and research new military tech to compete with their invading ships.

You're going to end up at war with someone, that's pretty inescapable. It doesn't mean you have to fight in their territory though. Just concentrate on defending your space (large fleets, military star bases, etc...) Let the other guy waste resources building fleets you'll just trash. As those defenders gain experience, this gets even easier. I had a couple medium hulls with 65HP in my last game. That's obscene when the same ship, new off the line, only had 23HP! Since you're spending resources building invasion fleets, you can put that into other peaceful endeavors.

If you want a quicker end to hostilities, it's often easier to take a planet from them and then offer it back to them in exchange for a peace treaty (after you've removed all your troops of course, no sense giving him free population.)

You can remain at peace for the entire game if you work hard at making sure each AI likes you more than someone else. To make an AI like you:

1. Set up trade routes with them.
2. Sign economic and research treaties (in Dark Avatar).
3. Increase your diplomacy ability.
4. Choose an alignment that matches theirs.
5. Have a high military rating. You can use the Spin Control Center to fake it.
6. When they demand tribute, pay it. Giving big gifts doesn't help that much.
7. Pay aggressive AIs to attack someone else. If they're busy with another target, they won't attack you.

You should look at the relationship screen for each race and see where your pluses and minuses are. Theres really nothing you can do abut the negetives for "close borders" but like nullspace just said, #1 get trade routes.

So to answer your question, NO, there is no flaw in this game that cauises that. its things you need to learn to prevent the wars. of course some will still happen but you can keep them to a minimum and exterminate the real bad warmongers.

Now heres my own question i have after ready #7 above. I've wanted to get one race to go to war with another, but on the trade screen when i click on "attack" that other races name does not appear at all. So how do i get them to decalre war?

Also someone else may be able to answer both of us, does having a high diplomacy level help? Other than helping get better trades, what doe smore diplomacy do?

I like to play peacefull games because i´m a trader of heart   I play at challenging or thougt levels and full opponents, but only allows alliance victory. With this, you can play a longer game with almost no war, but when the AI beging to build it´s alliances, the hell doors opens. I try to be a peacekeeper, using diplomacy, but the AI blows one to another. My trade go to hell and i become very unhappy. I think the game must had a "blocker" that stop wars between to civs after they sign peace, for at least 20 or 30 turns.

Bah, I give up in this game it seems your either a primary military power or your dead. My 15th try has yet again ended in being over run by the Yor this time. Thanks for all the advice but I just don't think this is my kind of game, I can't seem to win without being so powerful militarily that I can conquer the whole galaxy...at that point what's the point of a influence, diplomatic or tech victory when you have it made for the conquest win.

I'm sure you will disagree with me but I very much believe this game is flawed if I can not achieve a victory condition that I set out to do without becoming the dominate military force in the galaxy on a normal difficulty level.

Anyway, I can't see enough here to entertain me for more then a week before I get bored.

I do have to disagree. I'm playing as humans right now, and while I have a powerful military, if I declared war on any one of the three remaining AI's, they are all allied, so I would have to fight all three at once, and I'm not positive I could defeat all three. Granted, I'm only playing a small galaxy with beginner intelligence, but it is possible to have to try for an influence or diplomatic vicotry.

I will agree wity Masteroldschool on the point that you DO need to be a dominant military power to win any victory condition. Not that you need to go to war, but that strong military will help keep the warmogers away and keep the friendlies as allies. I'm playing as the Korx because i just wanted to be a trader, like Lord Anger above, figuring I'd eventuall get an alliance or influence victory. But war was declared on me, i had no military, but i did have the techs and the cash. Alas, the Drengin are no more.

So to Masteroldschool, if you havent completely given up, next time keep the game balanced, research so weapons techs early on and just get a couple ships build, even if you leave them in orbit. Try to stay off the bottom of the "Most Powerful Civs" list.

This is pretty much true. You need a powerful military in order to survive, and once you have a powerful military, you can conquer someone, so you might as well do it. If there were some combat bonuses that made it easier to defend yourself than to invade others, then it might be possible to have a small defense-only army. But the combat system doesn't work that way.

It is possible to build a fake military for deterrence. Build cargo hulls filled with weapons, because they are a cheap way to increase your military rating, which will make the AI afraid of you. Also use the spin control center. If you do this, you'll be able to stay at peace, but you won't have the ability to go on the offensive.

If you pick the Super Isolationist ability and put up military starbases then you can play defensively; the enemy will be constantly stifled by your bonuses in your territory.

I think it's possible to stay out of war. I played games where i was never attacked, but if you want build a trade civ, you will be pushed to defend your partners. If you want win the game for influence, you can build some starbases as rayadrel told above and stay out of trouble. But if you want win by alliance, you should build a decent, but not the most powerfull navy, to crush your rivals and defend your friends.

i always thought super isolationists are overpowered. i was allied to all 9 civs and i won the game, i did not know i won until the cutscenes poped in. but what you do is you make sure you have a very powerful economy, and keep giving the AI opponents money on a consistent basis, then there relationshiops changes with you to warm to very close. then when you researched alliance tech, ssk them to ally with you. chances are they will all say yes

I do slightly the same thing, but in a different way. I almost never build cargo hulls just to deter military. Towards the beginning of the game, I'm building cargo hull survey ships and occasional cargo hull ships with engines and a single laser...they have their um, place in my strategy.... Anyway, later in the game I just upgrade them. What's really sweet is that the cargo surveyors frequently get anomalies that raise their hit points. Load them up on defense and they actually become viable fighting ships.

Yeah in this game is quite impossible to go pure peace and forget the guns but just remember this, if this was a multiplayer game and I had guns and the other guys didn't I'd be sure to take over your puny empire because I can.

Really all you can do to deter possible warmongers is to biuld up your military to respectable levels (you gotta be at least slightly lower than the top dog to stay out of their radar, and it doesn't matter if you're second place militarily if the difference between first and second is 3 parsecs and a country mile)

Also you could sweeten them up, if you have the means to butter them up then do so, use trade, treaties, give them something for their birthday, and if you both have alliance give them that too and a couple of BCs on top of it and you got a pal for life, and a pal with the biggest guns to boot (I've never seen an AI break Alliance) but of course you gotta stick up your guns as well, you cannot slack off.

You'd be surprised that all races will eventually succumb to the temptation of the warmonger if it happens, you just also gotta be in the game as well and keep everyone on their toes.

Trust me, before I knew of all this they were demanding tribute left and right, it was as if all the major races were pimps and I was the universe's only (word removed). It can be hard if you're a pacifist but remember those monks that are also pacifist, they can also bust out some strong fighting style with a roundhouse kick way better than what Chuck Norris could do.

i'm starting to agree with masterold school here. i havent played all that many games but on this last one i really wanted to get a diplomatic victory. the drengin and yor were annililated, the aceans WERE my ally until the assassination and they declaered war on me, now they are gone. i am currntly allied with the humans. but the other two remaining races are good, (I'm nutral) and after many many turns the best i get from them is Frendly. they are the alterians and the ones with the green triangle logo. my militray is, well beyond anything the AI will ever get to achieve. on advise i put 3 of mu huge hulled, very much loaded ships plus a bunch of large and medium in orbit around my spin control center, that was a waste and a half. im gonna put a stock market back there now.

I checked the relations screen and i get negatives for close borders and alarming influence and that they are militaristic. But i had double pluses for all the others. I gave up trying and attacked them both (the were allied). so i guess once they are both gone i'll get my diplomatic victory if its only with the humans. but by that point ill control 90% of the galaxy and i bet an influence victory will sneek in.

whats the deal? is there ANYWAY to get them to be close? should i have destoyed my own influence starbases?

I find it difficult to win a pure peaceful victory. I find it much easier though if you are a warmonger early game. If you sucessfully warmonger early, it assures you have a better start and larger planet base to tech. I usually try absorbing 2 major civs and as many minor civs as I can before I try for a peacful victory. This almost ensures that I'm at least 2-3x larger than my next closest competitor. This is better if you disable surrenders so you can gobble up all their planets. If you are bigger and stronger than everyone, you are free to do whatever you please.


I find influence victories easiest to achieve because you can do it with stock exchanges that give you both economy and influence. a tech victory requires to you use expensive tech buildings

influence victories are easier on abundant and tight cluster galaxies. Instead of building influence starbases, I try to maximize planet population and influence techs. Fill planets with stock exchanges, which increase both influence and fill your coffers with credits. To do this, you will need to maximize morale buildings and try to take as many morale resources and abilities as you can. And of course try to take as many influence resources as you can. be sure to build all those morale boosting galactic acheivements

with every planet filled with 14+B population and stock exchanges, your influence will be massive. and with the money from the stock exchanges, you can maintain a huge fleet to ward off aggressors

you'll want very few manufacturing planets, but they need to churn out a constant stream of ships to bolster your military rating. everything else should be econ planets and enough research to keep you ahead of others. I've won influence games where my weapons tech was 3 generations behind the next military leader, but I had 3 times his military rating comprised of small-hulled ships that I can churn out every 1-3 turns on my half-dozen manufacturing planets. With 90% econ planets you can build these indefinately as the upkeep is negligible.

on planets closest to the border, fill them wtih influence buildings instead of stock exchanges. When you've flipped the neighboring planets, turn them into stock exchanges and build influence buildings on the new border planets. I've won a few influence games without the need for influence starbases at all

i did have problem with spies as everyone tries to spy you when you are largest and have the most tech. be sure to research counter-espionage early so you can make your planets immune. otherwise the spies can really eat into your production as the AI loves to put them on your capitals and bonus tiles.

by the way, the best way to get relations to "close" is to have a MASSIVE military. 1.5 to 2x their size should do it, unless you've insulted their mothers or smizmars

my military was massive. id say like 5 times the AI's i had 4 huge hulled ships. one was attacked (this is after i gave up and started the war) and took out a fleet of 7 losing about 5 HP. i think that one ship can take out its entire military. now i had 3 of those on the planet with the spin control center. still no closeness. just friendy.

i dont wantt o have to play militarily, i like to play a balanced game and see where it takes me. one iof the reasons i wanted to move onto the next generation of 4X TBS's from Civ2 was that i didnt like how i HAD to attack my allies or fly to space to win.

and if you have money to spare (and you should if you are doing this properly) then build 10 spies and drop them all at the same time on your nearest opponent to slow them down. you can literally make several planets useless with spies and force them to divert all their spending on counter-spies. I love putting spies on farms for 1 turn each to cripple their populations (it's kind of a dirty trick, i know)

they must truly hate you then. I remember in my last influence game on tough, i had a these minuses on all the AIs

-militaristic
-alarming influence
-close borders
-"we know what you're doing"
-tendancy to conquer others,

and I was close with 3/4 of the remaining AI. the last one was friendly. I didn't even have trade routes with any of them the entire game (I was role-playing my super-isolationist role by not trading)

lets not be too blunt now, i mean its only my feelings at stake. lol

My thread might be of interest:

WWW Link

Winning with an cultural influence-win is so easy i turned it off long ago.

Yes, it's more fun (for me) to win by diplomacy than by might these days, but that's too easy as well.

Merely building ships orbitting around my planets so nobody will attack me as an easy pickin', and then work the diplomacy, getting alliances and telling race_x to get rid of race_y and so forth.

Then again, there are times when i feel for a Sporerush.

I had the opposite experience when I started playing a few weeks ago. I only won through Diplomatic victory. A few games without a shot being fired or a defender being built (by me anyways).

A few things that were common for me in those games:

Researched Diplomacy and Economic techs.
Every couple of weeks Speak to each empire and trade techs with them. Sometimes I would just give them a tech or 2 or cash.
Do not form any Alliances with any empire until you are Close with all but one, otherwise you'll just get caught up in their wars.
When you research Trade, Advanced Trade and Master Trade, contact each empire and give it to them...free.
Do the same thing with Alliances when you research that as well.
When an empire asks for your help because they are getting beat up, give them something useful- anything. Then contact the aggressor and get them to Make Peace with them.
Research Xeno Ethics and Pick Neutral. Personally I find it easier to work from a neutral position.
Once you have all but one Close, make your alliances. For the last one, just outright give them any all building techs, cash, morale, diplomacy whatever. Do it over a couple of turns. Give them everything but "offensive military" techs (ie beam/missile weapons etc) They'll swing your way fast enough. If not war will ensue, agree to help whoever asks, which in turn will put the whole alliance into it. Feed your allies, ships, techs, cash whatever and let them exterminate the "bad guys" for you.

Funny, I have yet to win a conquest game. I disable Influence victory, because if you go for a conquest win, you usually end up winning via influence sometime during the war with the last civ. Most of my victories are Diplomatic/Alliance, I disable tech victory too.

I'm playing on the difficulty setting above normal, usually with 6 civs on the map. Once my military really starts getting turned out, everybody's relationship usually goes to "Close" with me. I'll even attack and conquer a Civ or two with "close" relations, and the others just smile and watch, as I pick them off one by one. It's kind of disappointing that they don't catch on really. I think if you start wars, you should take some pretty heavy diplomatic penalties. Usually I get bored and end up allying with the last civ.