Hows the new AI?

The AI, like any AI, stil has it's quirks. But, it is MUCH beter then what it was. On my latest game (set to "tough" I only saw two or three unescorted transports.

I haven't had to much trouble with spies yet, but the AI goes after asteroids pretty aggresively. The AI also uses thier super abilities fairly well. For example, in one game the Drath got three main powers and three or four minor races to all declare war on me in about a 15 turn span. That was a crazy war.

I haven't noticed any differances with starbases, but I never pay attention to them anyway.

I've only played the beta (haven't had time to play the full version, with what is supposed to be much enhanced AI, due to time constraints), but I can say that the AI is much better in these areas.

Some of the AIs aren't building their planets the same way that I would (for instance, I played a game where the Iconians COMPLETELY dedicated their homeworld to research and a nearby planet COMPLETELY to manufacturing), but they aren't generally making retarded decisions in planet building!

Tactically, it really varies between AIs. They certainly do carry out their wars better, and I've been ripped apart on occasion. For example, when I was relying on a pair of military starbases for my defense, those were the first things they went for. Meanwhile, the Yor were piling fleet upon fleet on my border with them. They eventually moved them all right into the heart of my starbases and proceded to declare war.

They aren't going to be able to match a human in their ship management anytime soon, but they aren't slouches, either. Apparently, the Arceans are better at their fleet management than other races, and combined with their first strike ability... well, it'll be interesting to see the results!

As for starbases, I haven't kept track. Keep in mind, though, that not all of that starbase spam is as idiotic as it looks. For instance, the AIs will use unupgraded economic starbases to increase their range (economic so as to not peeve anyone off, and unupgraded because... well, why bother?)

I'm just playing the campaign in the DA final on tough (the highest level before the AIs get bonuses) and while it hasn't been too hard so far, it has been much more fun. The AI is still a little fast and loose with transports, especially if I have eyes of the universe and can see them from far away, but they have gotten much, much better at planetary improvements. It's not just a matter of building choice, they're actually running their economies well enough to fill their planets with improvements almost as fast as I do.
So it definitely seems better than before, especially the planetary improvement stuff.

The AI does seem a little better. The opponents are still very docile, and I haven't had any try to attack me yet, but they are building up quicker and are making better choices on their planets. They are also building better ships and are at least putting up a fight when I attack them. If you set the opposition to "crippling" they can almost keep up with you in technology, economy, and production, although they still fall behind. I've only played 3 games with the new AI, so I'll try the next difficulty level and let you know how they react.

The AI is pretty good, but it does occasionally make these really bone-head moves that remind you that it doesn't actually understand the game.

In my current game (on crippling), I was forced to try to rush the humans because I hardly had any planets of my own. That went ok, but the Altarians labelled me the galactic aggressor and everyone and his neighbour decided to declare war on me. So far so good.

I captured a human radioactive in order to deny him a base in that region, even though I couldn't use the planet myself. I had just settled in when a Yor fleet showed up (they had been at war with me for some time). Their fleet was four fighters, with 10 missile attack *each*. I had two fleets of 3 fighters each, but my fighters were only armed with a single Stinger a peace. So uh, good job on the tech research Mr Yor.

I decided to buy them off rather than face that fleet, so I gave them the radioactive planet in exchange for peace. They accepted, then declared war on me again on their very next turn. Their fleet didn't even break stride. I got the 'We have peace with the Yor' and 'The Yor declared war on us' event on the same turn summary screen. So, good job on the evil back-stabbing AI.

The Yor fleet was right on my heels, only a couple of squares behind me when they stop. To upgrade. Nevermind that they are already in kick-my-butt configuration, they stop to upgrade with sight of two hostile fleets. They still gutted one of my fleets and roughed up the other, so I shudder to think the damage they would have done if they were at full strength.

Lot better than the competition but...

Maso level:

Colony rush it's still pretty awful. Speed 2 colony ships and small pop colony ships.

In my last game the torians had researched industrial sector before building many factories on there worlds which meant there production was non existant.

Poor choice of what to research is a big problem imo.

I always choose drengin and korath in my games there the most aggressive AI's they at least give the illusion of a potential threat.

That you can complain about AI flaws on masochistic difficulty automatically puts your in a foreign dimension to me.

What techs they research is partially determined by what value each tech is given in the xml file(s), so don't blame the AI entirely, its just doing what it's been told to do.

Those xml files are part of the AI, so thats really stretching it.

AI is OK in my books but still I do not find it to be light years ahead of GC2, then again I havent played many DA games yet.

In the first release I noticed that AI did not create any trading routes. There was update the very next day and in my current game the AI trades more actively. Bug solved I guess or just a quirk.

Second nasty thing I noticed was that AI can destroy your mining bases without declaring war. In my last game I gave AI couple ships and he just rushed them through my asteroid fields destroying everything in their path I did send a bug report to SD about this one.

I did get my ass handed to me in my last game, difficulty was set on painful, the nasty Pirates Mega Event did ofcourse do its part on my empires downfall. So some improvement is definetly there, I just cannot put my finger on what it is. Better planetary management is one for sure. I still find the Colony Rush stage annoying, there really should be more serious maintanance cost for colonies in my mind, making it absolutely idiotic to expand too quickly.

The AI is improved but still do most of the stupid things you mention. Like not being able to defend its colonies as it only put ships in orbit without fleet management and nothing else. Still sends unescorted transports and doesnt build effective starbases.

Also it doesnt seem to be able to handle mega events very well as it is very slow to react to them.

But still it gives a bit more challenge than the original game but you should not use mega events as it usually devestates the AI.

AI seems a lot better but one of the weakness which was in GC2 is still here.At the beginning AI doesn't build any military it is too focused on expansion.AI also doesn't know how to defend from Spore Ships so if you play as Korath it's a cakewalk

I think the problem with the AI is two-fold: first, Stardock doesn't have the resources. This needs multiple heads, with experience in Expert Systems and Masters Degree level computer science experience. The second problem is that Galciv2 moves very SLOW as a game. It takes a long time to see if your AI algorithm is going to pan out right. You can't just tweak the build order and get feedback two minutes into the game, like you can with a RTS. So consequently it takes more heads working on the AI. Civilization is far worse in this regard--the game moves much more slowly--but they have the heads to work on it. And there's far less bells-and-whistles the AI has to work through (like UP, mega events, etc.).

I agree that it's hard to develop a good AI for a game like GC2. I don't quite agree about the lack of resources though. GC2 has had a *lot* of development time for the AI because the guy who does the AI is also the guy who controls the purse strings. He also has a lot of experience working on the AI for these sorts of game which I think is more valuable for this than Expert Systems or having a graduate-level CS degree (and I have one).

In comparison to most strategy games, I don't think Stardock is under-resourced in the AI department. In comparison to the difficulty of the problem, that may be true.

Really, the AI is pretty good on the economics and not too bad at the land-grab. Overall, the diplomacy is decent. Where I find the AI to be most disappointing is the prosecution of wars. Basically in moving it's fleets it seems to get out-manuevered and I've never seen it attack in the kind of coordinated operation that people use.

I think a lot of this comes down to Sensors. The AI can seem sort of sneaky if you don't have Eyes of Universe or a good sensor network. With good sensor coverage, they just seem to flounder (as they don't have good sensor coverage themselves). The AI would probably appear tougher if battle fleets were accompanied by fast cargo hulls loaded with sensors. The sensor hulls would start each turn on the same square as a combat fleet, use about half it's movement to move around and eat up obscured space. Then the main fleets move, based on what the sensor has uncovered. Then the sensor ship tries to end its turn on a strong combat fleet square or maximally distant from detected enemy combatants or unexplored space.

You know, I think I'll quit building Eyes of the Universe in my games, just to make fleet manuevers more interesting.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Sounds like the AI has been improved overall, but still suffers from the same weaknesses.

I'm a little disappointed that the tacital AI has seen much improvement. But then that's an incredibly difficult problem to tackle. With respect to the above post, I never bothered building the Eyes as it conferred such an overwhelming advantage to the player (the AI never, ever researched sensors - do they still ignore that branch?).

Still, I think I'll grab a copy once I have a bit more free time...I'm excited at the prospect of playing a Maso game with all AIs aggressiveness cranked to 100% (I can't stand passive "punching bag" AIs who sit around waiting to be conquered).

Cheers

h

I disagree with this reasoning. You can't have the same guy doing management and also the AI, and expect either to get a good degree of attention.

Isn't the AI specifically designed to at times behave erratically, like a human player might, making silly mistakes such as unescorted troop ships, etc., though all the while still providing a challenge? I mean, it’s supposed to simulate a humanistic multiplayer experience, right?    

Not at Intelligent.

It's much improved (and I genuinely appreciate all the effort that goes into it) but still, as others have noted, somewhat too passive at times. I'm perpetually surprised at how willing the AI to simply let me win a research or culture victory, despite having a superior economy and military. Under those circumstances, I just don't understand why it doesn't come after me, guns blazing, as soon as it sees that I'm trying to win. If I and the AI are allied (even if we're the last two players in the game, with allied victory off) this problem becomes even more pronounced. I just stole a research victory out from a vastly superior Krynn opponent simply because I was able to keep up good relations via an alliance and good diplo.

That's exactly what happened to me yesterday. I thought I had a research win in the bag but the Drengin and Yor got together and my game was over very quickly.

It definitely seems to be better about that than it used to be, to be clear. It still happens, though. In short, since it's so easy to get "close" relations, you can prevent the AI from reacting strongly enough to your attempt at a victory simply by allying with it. It will then sit there passively while you research a tech victory no matter how vast the economic and military disparity becomes. An alliance should slow the reaction, sure, but when you're ally's trying to screw you and win the game without you it's time to react.

My allies are winning with me, on the way to a diplomatic victory!

I probably could have won that game if it weren't for a midgame event. I was practically best friends with the Alterians until a disgruntled worker killed their leader and they flipped out and blamed me. They apologized but it was too late, we were both drained from the war.

The alignment system is currently a problem. It creates of artificial alliances which won't attack someone of the shared alignment almost under any circumstance. Meanwhile the player can carve his way though any empire he chooses regardless of if he shares the same alignment of the attacked empire or not.

I've had some nasty military strategies pulled on me. For example, the Yor marching dozens of incredibly advanced fleets right into the middle of my defensive starbases prior to declaring war.

It would be excellent, however, if they would coordinate their fleets better. Moving multiple fleets close to each other is a good way to concentrate force, the aforementioned cargo-hulled scout is an excellent investment in any situation, and careful positioning of transports can allow for some brutally efficient attack patterns. For instance: place the transports as far away from the target planet as possible while still keeping them close enough to invade. Send in attack ships. The moment the planet is undefended, it goes down. Also, if the prerequisite techs are had, and enough constructors, building a military starbase near the next few targets is an awesome, if rarely applicable, way of unevening the odds.

In general, it would be nice to see the AI have a few unconventional tricks, just like players do. They really are a bit boring and generic in their fleet management.

One really cheap way to increase their effectiveness is to change how they're moving their ships. It appears that they have a turn delay before their ships will move, as if they're setting a waypoint instead of giving it a move order. Force all of the AI's ships to use up all available moves if they haven't reached their destination, and they'll be much more responsive.

I'm finding the AI in DA to be a LOT better than in DL, especially when it comes to fighting wars. In DL, even wars that I was completely unprepared for were little more than a matter of seeing how long it would take for my forces to massacre their navy and my transports to seize their planets. Now, even though I'm still outfighting the AI, I'm having to actually put a decent amount of effort into it since the AI's transports are better-protected and battles are much MUCH deadlier to my forces than in DL.

As for asteroids, they're using them well enough. To be fair though, it's kinda hard not to use them decently: just set down the mines and occasionally send a miner around to upgrade them when the tech comes available, and it'll work out well.

The AI also seems to use spies decently. Nothing too advanced, but they do a good enough job of cleaning out the spies you put down and making you do the same.