Thanks Mumblefranz,
I was slow in my post so some of my ??? were addressed.
Should I wait to attack all 3 target planets on the same turn or just take them 1 at a time as I can ???

In summary for planet assault : Small fighters, max missle attack (no Def ?) best logistics, multiple fleets ...

I can go back to challenged lev and still enjoy this game.

You should progress and not digress. You'll enjoy the game more as you begin to overcome harder and harder challanges. One of the hardest parts about winning at higher levels is in your own head. If you look at the advantage that the AI's have at suicidal you think to yourself that a third grader could beat you with these advantages. And a third grader probably could, but the AI is both more and less than the third grader. Don't beat yourself with your preconcieved notions.

I guarantee that you can win the game you're in now. At the worst case you may have to go back to an earlier save game and do things a bit better than you did the first time through and sometimes it's instructive to do that, but I don't think it's necessary in this case yet. In my best and most exciting games I was certain I was going to lose for at least three quarters of the game.

The speed thing allows you to avoid his attack fleets and allows you to expend your ships where there most needed, which is attacking his planets. If he doesn't have any attack fleets wandering around then it's not a big issue, but that would be unusual.

Research missile up to a reasonable level that gives you an effective weapon against his ships. Once you have that start building ships and research the logistics while building them.

It's kind of a dicey thing about waiting to attack. In some sense you want to attack and weaken him as quick as you can, but if you can't follow up and he simply re-takes the planet then you haven't accomplished much. I generally try not to get into a war until I have enough transports and attack fleets to take *all* his planets but that doesn't always work out. I think I would wait until I felt I could take out all three of the targets you've identified. Taking those planets should pretty much cripple him, though he'll probably still have plenty of ships around.

There are a lot of things you haven't described about the game that make a difference, such as how many other AI's are left, how dangerous they are, etc. But delaying is a last ditch tactic, if that's all you can do then do it, but the sooner you can attack the better.

Thanks for all your input Mumble.
The Dreng attack fleets seem to be happy following my spyships around ...
Not sure at this level how long this will work. (at lower diff levels it was a good strat). The other AI civs are in my pocket (all are at warm). I have many save games, so I can adjust as needed. What I have found at this level (AI 100%) is that the darn Dreng have targeted me, for good reason. They see me as the best victim of thier aggression. I am glad the game is this good.

So to sum up your advice:
Build small fighters with missle attack, use multiple fleets to attack each planet.
If I cannot take all three target planets at the same time try to cripple him.
Would the manufact or homeworld hurt most first ???

PS - I really want that research planet, it's a beauty

I would think the manufacturing planet would hurt him the most and help you the quickest, if of course, you can keep it.

The 100% level is a decent game. But I think the 125% level is the level that's closest to a "fair fight". Beyond that the AI gets pretty scary but if you take it one step at a time, you'll get there. Things that were hard become easy, things that were impossible become merely difficult.

Wow, thanks a lot Mumblefranz,
Yes, I can keep the planets I grab. I have destroyed all the Dreng escort/transport fleets, it is the battle fleets I have no answer for.
So grab the Manufact world, then the homeworld ???
And then that sweet tech capital world ???

I also have "Lone Wolf" ships blasting the Dreng freighters, constructors and weak starbases to wear down thier empire ...

That's a lot of good advice Mumblefratz. I been kinda following this conversation as I'm in a fight on Tough. I've beaten Tough the first couple tries, but this is first with my custom race and for the first time an AI is outclassing me. I've been losing meduims 2 to 1 to them so I'll be switching to the smalls on a different weapon line. Their defense on beam is what's killing me. Hopefully I can overcome as well.  


@Byram Never Give Up, Never Surrender   

Wow, thanks a lot Mumblefranz, Yes, I can keep the planets I grab. I have destroyed all the Dreng escort/transport fleets, it is the battle fleets I have no answer for. So grab the Manufact world, then the homeworld ??? And then that sweet tech capital world ???

Don't stop until their dead then all those battle fleets just disappear. Actually, if you're afraid of any other AI you probably shouldn't take their last few planets because conquering a civ is negative points in the relationship. But they will certainly accept a peace treaty at that point and even give you tech at the end. Then some other civ will come along and finish them off for you.

My fav 'cheese' tactic is the buy/upgrade money saving tactic.
It goes somethng like this: -

Go into the ship builder and design a colony hull with nothing attached to it. Save this design as 'Colony Blank'.
Now back in the main screen go to your homeworld and buy the 'Colony Blank'. This will set you back around 492 credits. Then the following turn immediately upgrade the blank to your chosen ship config and you save loads of credits over buying the sip outright. The breakdown is as follows....

Upgrade price includes purchase of the blank hull!!

Colonizer = 990
Blank upgrade = 786
save = 204 credits

Scout ship (colony design) = 720
Blank upgrade = 636
save = 84 credits

Constructor = 1416
Blank upgrade = 1104
save = 312 credits

In the early game this make a big difference to the length of time you can carry on colonising & save you money on your initial colonising burst too.

Drengin

Go into the ship builder and design a colony hull with nothing attached to it. Save this design as 'Colony Blank'.

I tend to just call it the 'Cargo Hull' with the description 'Nothing but a hull.' (as I really don't put anything at all on it- not even extras. What's the point if you're just using it to upgrade to other Cargos or Larges).

It's also useful to just build the Cargo Hull, as it'll be far quicker to build.

Not to mention you can upgrade all Cargo ships to Large Hulled vessels, making it an excellent way to pop out a bunch of warships for a bit less than usual.

Great ship building cheese !!! Thanks Drengin and Paladin.
It will come in handy, I have my research plan, ship build plan, fleet org plan and Invasion plans ready to go. I think I smell victory ...
Time to rock and roll.

we actually are trying to help you.

I believe this sir. However, I have yet to try, I am having to much fun atm destroying my enemies on tough. I figure I will move on after my next couple games. It is always good to heed the advise of others, or at least keep it in mind.  

For those of you who are trying to help, I am sure we all appreciate the effort!

Thanks again.

Cheezey Update
Dreng Battle fleet attempted to attack one of my unarmed econ starbases.
I used my beyond cheese "fight the battle multi times and see what works best" and was forced to settle for a loss of three FLEETS to defeat the Dreng one. They have made no other offinsive moves and my Torpedo Boat fleets are moving into place to attack !!!! (Transport fleets are following closely...hope this doesn't upset the near-by Arceans too much)

If you've ID'd their strongholds like that, build influence starbases and take them completely intact. Either that, or you throw enough troops to take them intact.

Nothing like influencing alien worlds out of their Hyperion structures. You can never have too much miniaturization.

The AI likes cheese too!!!!!!!!!!!
The Dreng have what looks like a fleet with 2 transports and a couple of escorts...
When I click on the fleet - It is actually many fleets (7 total) STACKED on the same parsec !!!! This seems like an attempt to HIDE their fleets from my view. VERY DEVIOUS...those EVIL Drengs. Well, no matter thier days are numbered.
@JanuHull - Yes, I have max soldier techs, plenty of transports, and intend to take thier planets intact!!!!!

I've noticed the AI stacks also. Must be a rally point till they go to war or something. Sometimes in the heat of battle I'll be working my way through enemy fleets and click to attack what I think is a fleet to find it is one of these huge stacks.

I always use huge stacks of ships, particularily when I'm using fleets of small fighters against capital ship fleets. You need to continually use the back up fleets to max out the logistics of your main battle fleet. I tend to think of it as the tip of my spear that I'm continually sharpening. I generally don't start out with less than 5 full fleets of attack ships and enough fleets of transports to conquer *all* of my opponents planets.

But I'll never attack my opponents fleets unless I have to, I just ignore them and leave them standing where they are while I go directly for the ships defending his planets.

TOTAL CHEESE ... and beyond
Small attack ships worked great!!!(thanks Mumblefratz) Swarmed the dreng planets and even drove his fleets clear of the liberated sectors. Only had to "Re-Invade" one planet and once I fought a few "sample fleet battles" and figured out how many ships I needed, THen I re-loaded a save game and fought straight thru their fleets.
EVEN had some good GAME CHEEZE - The DReng found a nice Precourser Ranger and I foung a load of Precurser Corvettes, It was great to throw them into the fleet wars.
After a long Diplo blitz of trade,gifts ect, I got ally with the Korx.
The Arceans were more aloof, moving from cool to warm ...Then when I re-loaded a save game I noticed they were at close, so I grabbed them as ally too !!!
When I battered the Dreng back to one planet, one sector and a few fleets built around the Ranger ...They surrendered to the Arceans, And I won my first Tough game!!!
Thanks to all for the cheese and help, I think I will stick with Tough level, and try at GIGANTIC GALAXY size for the first time. I have played Med, large and huge.
Maybe I will even try to go easy on the cheesy?!?!?...

I just use cheats to spawn minor races as much as map can support!Makes it all so much fun, and than some money wich I ofcourse give all to minors..so they can develop...I kind of feel sorrry for little buggers, If there was an option I would create something called Ligue of non allied worlds for the minors, in B5 mod.Same thing majors have, but just for minors...

Back in the GC1 days we used to colonize a weak rated planet, 12 or 13 and then gift it to those who we knew would become your worst enemy. They would spend so much resources trying to upgrade it after that, they would not have enough resources available for a military strike before you were.

Can you still GIFT colonies?

Not tried them as gift...but they are in diplomacy window...

Yes, you can GIFT planets...
Hey more great stuff, I got from other threads on these forums:

Planet defender ships with no weapons/maintence - from Evil Stormbringer

Econ range extension starbases rather than Influ or Military types because the AI ignores them better - from Kblore

I just committed genocide against an entire space-faring race. Then I slaughtered billions of people on every world I set foot on. I live for the moment I can join in combat and kill them, the more uneven the odds the better.

What's all this about stealing stuff?

For Cheese, I like to build a cargo hull with the very first weapon I can get my hands on, and go shoot down innocent civilians, with all their starry-eyed big dreams of a grand future on a new world. It's especially nifty if I can get the weapon on a tech trade from the guy I visit. That's Frumunda Cheeze.

Just one option to Mumble's Advice...

I can usually conquer the entire universe on suicidal with 1-2 Huge hulled ships and a lot of defense. I actually have done a lot of math on why this works.

One other thing the math pointed out is that swarms are NOT cheaper than massive hulled ships. You want cheap ships, just put fewer guns on your massive hulls.

I had originally intended to post all the numbers, but then read that they are going to correct it in Dark Avatar. But Here's the broad brush stroke

Resource costs[/B]
Hit points 2bc
Hull 2 bc
Speed 2 bc
best defense 15
best offense 8

Hit points consumed once per war
Offense consumed once per round
Defense consumed once [B]per ship

The clincher is all the intangibles that come with experience. A couple Level 40 photonic torpedo Huge Hulls with defense make quick work of level 1 black Hole destroyers. I do admit, I cannot engage the enemy assault fleets, but, who wants to do that anyway.