Oh yeah, this is another one I tried. Save game named - Fleet Battle. I played the same battle over again 5 times. I won each time in a 4 vs 4 frigate fleet contest. Two times I lost 3 of 4 ships, two more I lost 2 ships ...But one time I only lost 1 ship. This will now be standard during fleet operations. Hehehehehe

There's cheese and then there's just silly. This seems a bit silly, all to save a lousy frigate or two. I don't know about you, but my load time is just too long to make this worthwhile.

There's a saying "I may be capable of grand larceny, but not petty theft". This is just petty theft.

OUCH !!!!
Hey, it is all for FUN. It hardly is equal to a CRIME ??? In my game (tough level) I am in a war with the Dreng. They out number me, 253 war ships (a mix of fighers and frigates) to 87 ships. I need ALL the help I can get ...
My econ is good, I lead in tech, but trail in eveything else...
Any ideas to help ??? Mumblefranz ???

The velveet cheese "Save first turn, scout out galaxy" is the BEST yet!!!!!!!!!!! I stared a huge map game and saved. Then bought some advanced cargo-hull scouts to check things out...this is VERY effective ... I am going to like this game MUCHO, and I will now do this for any new games I start. I don't do metaverse, so my conscience is clear. There must be more great cheese some vets of high level games got ?????

The more efficient way to do this is to reload with the cheats enabled, hit cntrl-U and then take a look around the entire galaxy. Rather than veleeta - try Cheez Whiz   

"I may be capable of grand larceny, but not petty theft".
A little OT, but this saying implies that a Ken Lay is OK. But the guy who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family is the worst of the two ???
Not sure I can agree with that.

A little OT, but this saying implies that a Ken Lay is OK. But the guy who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family is the worst of the two ???

No it doesn't, it's a metaphor that shouldn't be taken seriously. Basically, it's saying someone who could rob a bank with no problems probably wouldn't bother with stealing a loaf of bread.

Marc,
It seems like it would make more sense the other way around ??
(Still OT)

No... if you had the ability, skills, and lack of morals to succesfully rob a bank, why would you steal a loaf of bread? Again, it's a metaphor. Basically, if you have the ability to do something amazing, why would you bother doing something tiny and insignificant?

It hardly is equal to a FELONY ???

There was no harm intended, my point was merely, make the crime worth the time. In this case a felony is better than a misdemeanor.

I am in a war with the Dreng. They out number me, 253 war ships (a mix of fighers and frigates) to 87 ships. I need ALL the help I can get ... My econ is good, I lead in tech, but trail in eveything else...

This is my usual situation at suicidal except I don't usually lead in tech. You have to have a speed advantage otherwise you're dead. As long as you have the speed advantage you can avoid engaging his fleets. The only ships you have to defeat are the one's in orbit around his planets and you only do this when you have a transport ready to take the planet. Ideally you should have enough fast transports on hand to take *all* of his planets. If you don't, you need to get busy building transports as fast as possible. Don't worry about any of your planets that he takes, just start taking his planets as fast as you can (5 to 10 a turn is good) and don't stop until he only has one or two left. Make peace with him right at the end so that you don't get labelled as a conquerer. That's pretty much all there is to it.

if you have the ability to do something amazing, why would you bother doing something tiny and insignificant

Close but's it's really more make the benefit worth the punishment. To go to prision because you stole a loaf of bread is stupid, because if you get away with it you'll only have to steal another one tomorrow and the day after. But if you steal a billion dollars and get away with it, you'll never have to steal again.

Bah at my confusing metaphors. So may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

Exactly.

I don't have a problem with your metaphor. It's pretty obvious, why waste time on small advantages when you have some big ones at your disposal. I often go after tactics that will save time because games can be very long. I'm certainly not going to engage a tactic otherwise.

OT issue first:
If you steal a loaf of bread you will go to jail for what ??? A short sentence.
You rob a bank and you go to jail for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time.
So who is dumb or dumber ?????

Back to cheese:
SrGalen's Cheese Wiz ... WOW !!!!!!

My problem against the evil Dreng is BAD. I took what planets I could. They had weak defense (a defender and a couple of frigates). Now the planets all have the planet defense techs (double hit pts, fleet manager) and many ships. Them Dreng ships have better attack and def than mine. (shields, armour, laser, guns). I am upgrading to missle attack, but have no defense answer. I need larger hulls ??
I have good soldier techs and plenty of fast transports. Maybe I should try to BUY a peace treaty with the Dreng to gain time ??? I can blast the Dreng Escort/Transport fleets, but if the AI attacks with his battle fleets, I WILL BE TOAST.
So far the AI fleets are chasing my fast spyships, but I don't know how long this strat will work ...
Any advice or hints you guys can give are welcome ...

I rule at Normal diff, can win most of the time at Challenged...
But at Tough I have yet to win. (I have not LOST, but have been forced to RETIRE).
I feel in this game I may have a chance since my econ and tech are good.
Just not sure what the best strat is. I have plenty of save games to work with so I am willing to try anything to win !!!!
Keep on spreading the cheese !!!!!!!!!

OT issue first: If you steal a loaf of bread you will go to jail for what ??? A short sentence. You rob a bank and you go to jail for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time. So who is dumb or dumber ?????

Stop taking it literally. Cheese is cheese, crimes are crimes. As such, consider commiting the two crimes under draconion rule. Either way, if you're caught you die.

Now, who's stupid. The guy caught and killed for stealing bread? or the guy who robs a bank and manages to get away with it?

Them Dreng ships have better attack and def than mine. (shields, armour, laser, guns).

You really don't need cheese to win here. All you need are ships that can take out his ships, they don't necessarily need to survive. The standard tactic against a superior opponent is the swarm. Build swarms of small hulled ships with reasonable speed, no defense and whatever weapon you have that will have the best damage against his ships. You have to max out your logistics and build a whole lot of ships but they're cheap and quick to build. You'll lose fleets of these but his better ships are more expensive and take longer to replace. Combine this with your speedy transports and just start taking his planets, if you don't you won't survive. You really can't fight him fleet to fleet so don't even try. There's no cheese here, just an effective strategy. Stop crying and start kicking a**. And I mean that as good naturedly as possible.

Hey, you guys who are rating the cheese scale... you forgot Cheetos... they are the "CHEEZIEST" according to Chester Cheetah. Now you may cry foul and say that Cheetos are not cheese, but I think that if you want to compare mac and cheese to Velveeta then Cheetos should be the uber trump cheese!!!!!
And as far as the crime stuff... who cares?
Remember, "it's not easy being cheezy"  

What about aerosol cheese? Is it flammable?

What about aerosol cheese? Is it flammable?

Never tried to flambe cheese whiz but let's find out... Bill Nye... where are you when we need you. Submit it to Mythbusters, they'll try anything.

Hate to get this way off topic but I really think there should be a "Cheese Scale" created. Personally, I love Cheeze Its, those little crackers are the best!

Other than that, Is it possible to actually play "cheese free" and still win at the higher levels of the game? Have yet to play past tough, although I manage a victory 95% of the time.

Is it possible to actually play "cheese free" and still win at the higher levels of the game?

Absolutely, I've won at suicidal the 1st time I tried and there's no going back. However it helps to listen to the advice of those that can, we actually are trying to help you.

All the OT stuff aside, I really want to win this tough level game !!!!!!
So my question to you guys (who are the high level diff winners) is this ...
I can build or up grade ships, I have a good econ. The Dreng have NO def vs missle so I am rush research that tech. Should I upgrade my Frigate fleets to this attack type or maybe build figher (tiny or small?) fleets to take the Dreng planets. As I indicated the Dreng have very heavy defense on thier remaining planets.( I have seized the "easy" planets). My transports are in place and safe for now ...
I know Mumble has said the my "fight a battle and see how it works" cheeze is lame... well so be it, but I also know as a result of this strat that I CANNOT take the Dreng planets with double HP and fleet managers with my current navy. Speed is not a factor in the planet attack (unless I am over looking someting) ....
Any other help I can get is really needed, I plan to launch Operation ToughStuff this weekend.

small hull high logistics many fighters fleets *will* take the planet as long as you have some effective weapon against his ships. It may even take two fleets in a row to do it but it can be done and unless you do it soon you may as well retire.

Your logistics *must* be maxed out. I'd tend to spend more research on logistics than on weapons. Get a reasonable weapon not necessarily the top end weapon and start cranking out small hull fighters. I assume you're on v1.31, your logistics should be 58 at least with 19 ships per fleet. You get ten or so of these fleets and you've won. You can finish researching logistics as you build your fleets.

@Mumlbefranz
No offense taken here (and no tears)
I can go back to challenged lev and still enjoy this game.
I think in this current game I COULD win (no for sure though)
The speed thing would seem to be a fleet vs fleet issue, no help to planet attack.
I have good research (#2 in game)...so should I continue missle tech path or switch to logistics. Maybe do both while stalling Dreng fleets ???
Also this, I have great spy info and have ID'ed the Dreng maufact planet, tech planet and homeworld as targets for invasion... should I wait until I can grab all 3 at the same time or attack them one at a time as I am able ???