The name-calling stops now. Have a civil discussion, or it's over.

No, I'm not 15. I'm 16, by virtue of a birthday. Yes, I live in the UK.

Kryo: done.

I also apologise to any who I may have offended in my post, as I have a tendancy to act like a jackass. I will now leave this conversation, and not post in it again.

I did a quick experiemnt, and here's my results...

Playing as the Yor I took a cargo hull and filled it with Sensor IV's

None: 12 Sensors
Basic Min (+10): 13 Sensors
Enhanced Min (+15): 12 Sensors
Advanced Min (+15): 13 Sensors
Expert Min (+15): 15 Sensors
Ultimate Min (+20): 14 Sensors
Supreme Min (+25): 14 Sensors
HypShrink: 15 Sensors

So it does look like there is a problem since sometimes you're worse off after researching a new min tech. Why doesn't min just increase the space available in the ship, instead of increasing both the space and the size of the components?

SOunds like a problem, miniturization should work... I would hope they are aware,

If you bothered reading the threads that you bumped, then you would have learned it DOES work as intended, just there are problems with rounding.

Rounding down causes many issues in the game (e.g., bonuses to small values disappear). I hope Stardock in GalCiv3 will avoid rounding until the final result and will round off to the nearest!

Paul D.

So it does look like there is a problem since sometimes you're worse off after researching a new min tech. Why doesn't min just increase the space available in the ship, instead of increasing both the space and the size of the components?

it is hardcoded(but may be modded how far) that components scale with the size. but they should not scale as much that increasing miniturization will lead to less components on your ships.

in your example there are a lot of small components. so rounding will have a huge impact on the amount of components you can fit into the hull. try avoiding such designs. better build galactic eyes for exmaple

The reason the mind control does 100% economy is because the ability amount is set to 100 but there is no abilty type entry. So the game defaults to ability type 0 which is economy.

If you add an ability type field then it would effect whatever number you assign it. Enter 9 and you add 100% to your influence, etc.

Minaturization does work as it was intended. The sizemod works against the current hull capacity of your ship. So the more room you make the larger the value that is added to the componet.

I'd rather see it based off of the hulls base size since you are making more room in the ship, not making the ship bigger with the mini techs. Just because the amount of space availble in a ship goes up doesn't mean I would have to add more armor to cover the ship, which is what the size mod currently does.

It makes no sense what-so-ever to have miniaturizaion EVER make a component bigger. Thats called "enlarging" and is not something that I want my scientists working on. The description of the tech states that you can put more components on a ship. If it doesn't (regardless of the reason) it should be modified. Fortunately I havent noticed this "problem" in any of my games. Although I have built a scout ship out of a cargo hull packed with sensors. So it may have affected me I just didnt notice.

Scientist: Here's the new sensor
Me: But it's bigger than the last one!?!
Scientist: Yeah, it was easier to make it bigger. So what do you want us to work on next?

I see people fail to see my point.... including folks from Stardock...

I, and most other players, dont care if you designed something on purpose or its an oversight. What I do care about is having a well balanced game thats fun to play. If there are certain features that the vast majority of players regard as bad, I would think that the developer would try and balance things- for the sake of a better game.

The fixes are really not a big deal. Miniturization is, as the experienced users already said, easy to fix.
The Galactic Wonders are easy to balance. The Galactic Guide Book can stay. Just make it cheaper to build so someone can actualy build it early in the game to use it properly.

Now, do we all want a better game, or do we want to pretend the game is just fine...?

OK. If I understand right miniaturization does not work like the idea of miniaturization does in real life, correct? It is not a comfort to say “it works like it was designed to” because if something is designed wrong it doesn’t matter if it is doing what it was designed to do because it is doing it wrong. In math if you are off by “1” you might as well be off by a “trillion” because you will always get the wrong answer. I realize the problem is with rounding, I used an example related to math. I’m not trying to insult anyone I’m just trying to explain why saying “it works like it was designed to” doesn’t make any sense if you design it to do something and it does something else.

Now, how exactly do I mod something that has been hard coded? If I understood correctly it has been hard coded? If it hasn’t could someone please refer me to the file I need to fix.

One more question. Why hasn’t this been fixed? If it is designed wrong it needs to be redesigned. I’m not going to buy the expansion if the base game isn’t working properly in the first place. If the foundation isn’t designed properly why build upon it? Yes I will probably miss out. But I’m not the one who programmed the logical bugs so I am actually saving time, money, and grief by not buying the expansion. Again I am not trying to offend anyone. These are questions a user of a game has the right to ask. Could someone please refer me to the file I need to fix?. Thanks.

I see people fail to see my point.... including folks from Stardock... I, and most other players, dont care if you designed something on purpose or its an oversight. What I do care about is having a well balanced game thats fun to play. If there are certain features that the vast majority of players regard as bad, I would think that the developer would try and balance things- for the sake of a better game. The fixes are really not a big deal. Miniturization is, as the experienced users already said, easy to fix. The Galactic Wonders are easy to balance. The Galactic Guide Book can stay. Just make it cheaper to build so someone can actualy build it early in the game to use it properly. Now, do we all want a better game, or do we want to pretend the game is just fine...?

I couldn't agree more. It seems some people like to rabidly defend the things they care about, no matter how much proof you show them. Take this overexaggerated example:

Customer: "Hi, um, whenever I built better ships, they get destroyed more easily."

Dev: "Ya, it's meant to do that."

Customer: "What!? This sucks, I want my money back!"

Dev: "ROFL, too bad. It works fine, because thats the way we planned it."

Customer: "But... this makes playing the game pointless!"

Dev: "Read my lips: 'Working. As. Intended.' LMAO."

I'd rather see it based off of the hulls base size since you are making more room in the ship, not making the ship bigger with the mini techs. Just because the amount of space availble in a ship goes up doesn't mean I would have to add more armor to cover the ship, which is what the size mod currently does.

I totally agree with that. The whole point of adding extra space onto a ship was to simulate the fact that miniaturization was making ship components smaller, not making the ship bigger. At least that was my understanding of it. I know miniaturization in MOO2 actually did make the compoenents smaller, but everything in that game used larger numbers to begin with, so it had less of a rounding problem than GalCiv2 probably would using a similar system.