The races are unbalanced

Some races start out with a lot more bonuses/techs

from GalCiv2 Forums
Some races start out with a lot more bonuses and more techs as well than others. Here is an example of a weak and an overpowered race:

Human (weak):

Abilities: Logistics +6%
Techs: Hyperdrive, xeno communications, xeno engineering

Drath (overpowered):

Abilities: Defense +50%, military production +25%, diplomacy +25%, espionage +50%, logistics +6%
Techs: Hyperdrive, ion drive, galactic warfare, xeno industrial theory, xeno engineering, stellar cartography

It is fine that we get to customize the races, but could they at least be balanced to begin with?
15,433 views 26 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now I know Humans get more than just Logistics +6%. If that's all they have, you might need to reset 'em to their default.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
On a related note, do the AI's use the last settings that you used for a given race, or do they get set back to default? And how do you force the settings back to default? I know there is a reset button that pulls all 10 points out of everything, but I have not noticed the button for resetting all races, or even just your currently selected race, back to default.

I am sure that its a case of me looking right at it and not seeing it though.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually the Humans get +25% trade and +25% diplomacy.

Drath should probably lose the +25% diplo bonus and Ion drive and the Humans should get a few more techs.

Actually, I never noticed this before but wtf, the Humans start off with Hyperdrive and others start off with Ion drive? This completely contradicts the story as the Humans invented Hyperdrive, if anything, the Humans should get Ion drive and everyone else should be stuck with Hyperdrive. Now that I think about it, that' a pretty glaring mistake.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
...but I have not noticed the button for resetting all races, or even just your currently selected race, back to default


Go to the "my game\GalCiv2" folder and delete the default*.raceconfig files. That'll reset them.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Because even though people have wanted a reset race button since 1.0... it's not there yet.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have seen in many games where the Terrans are the powerhouse race in the game. I have seen many posts where the Terrans were the team to beat. If the humans are so underpowered then that should never happen.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
hmm - well in my last four games - my arch-enemies were the Torians, Terrans, Alterians and the Arcean's respectively - so I don't think I'm in much of a position to complain about this. I have not, however, altered any of the default races at all - I have only (ever) played with my custom race...

I have to admit - it's taken me a while to really get into this game - but now I have, I think it's one of the better ones I've played... Shame I keep on getting the same crash though - even with the latest beta... :-/
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What none of you seem to understand is that what I have listed are the FREE abilities. Sure, the humans get more than 6% logistics - but all except this bonus COSTS them some of the 10 distribution points. The Drath, on the other hand, get all those massive bonuses for FREE - in addition to the 10 points.

Insanely unbalanced.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
in all my game time.. ive never seen the drengin gain predominance at any certain point. Being so ruthless and evil, he goes to war all the time (dumb).

It seems all evil races seem to never win in any game I play. .
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The Humans do get a 25% Diplomacy bonus for free. 25% is not one of the choices in the race picks so they get it at no cost. Other races get simmilar things. Try this, go to the human screen and click reset. now look at what has stayed behind. When a race is assigned a % to an ability that is not an option to be picked then it gets that bonus for free, unless you overwrite the bonus by clicking on another one.

The humans are not underpowered, they just have a really tough time in the begining, later in the game they catch up, usually. They get a diplomacy bonus of 25% for free and they get a 25% trade bonus for free.

And once again I will point out how freakishly easy this game is to mod. If you think the races are overpowered or underpowered, edit the race. Its not that hard at all. I know absofreakinglutely nothing about programming and I edit all kinds of stuff in this game. (Disclaimer - I do not submit games to the metaverse, and as such I don't know anything about how this affects those games, or even if it does.)

As far as the hyperdrive continuity thing goes, I personally gave up on continuity awhile back. I've seen two different stories about the Yor and Iconian. In one of them it was mentioned that the Yor were a spacefaring race before hyperdrive that never discovered other life (Makes little sense.) The other the Yor just up and invented their own hyperdrive tech. (Also makes little sense.) And in game it tells you that the "foolish humans" gave the Yor hyperdrive, and the Ion drive comes out of nowhere.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The races were balanced by the game developers. I do not agree with your assertions, each race is unique and have their own bonuses. Also agree the Yor are not overpowered due to this reason, and I've seen at least a dozen nerf the Yor threads. They (the aliens ) have 'different' bonuses but there is no one uber race.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I find the drengin to be the most dangerous. They seem to do a good job in the colony rush and then proceed to anihilate everyone unless I get strong enough to stop them. Humans, Yor and torians usually do a pretty good job too. Most of the other races can't really seem to keep up though, unless they happen to get a really good starting position.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Let's just give all races the exact same attributes except for name and portraits! In fact, why even discriminate; call them all Drengin.

While we're at it, let's give them all rocket-launchers and no other weapons!
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In my view there are two topics:

1. The strength of a computer AI to make use of its abilities
2. The strength of a customized race

To 1: I agree, that the races are quite balanced for the AI
To 2: For a player it is only useful to play a customized Yor or customized Drath

The following link explains why: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241860
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I don't get why people make such a big deal about race balance in a single player game. If you feel playing one race is too powerful then just up the difficulty slider to compensate or play another race.

In this game your starting location and the amount of habitable planets and bonus tiles where you start makes 10x more difference that what race you pick anyway.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree, Wargazmo. I don't think it's even possible to make 10 different races perfectly balanced and still have them distictly different, especally given that there are many different galaxy settings that can make some abilites very important and others worthless depending on what you chose. I don't really mind if there is one or two races that I always have to look out for a little more than the others. I think it adds flavor to the game.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The Humans do get a 25% Diplomacy bonus for free. 25% is not one of the choices in the race picks so they get it at no cost. Other races get simmilar things. Try this, go to the human screen and click reset. now look at what has stayed behind. When a race is assigned a % to an ability that is not an option to be picked then it gets that bonus for free, unless you overwrite the bonus by clicking on another one.


The only bonus that stays after clicking reset is the 6% to logistics bonus. If they get anything else it is hidden from the player. Why they would be hidden is beyond me. It would only serve to confuse the player.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well lets start by saying, that's life....

If (big if) humans ever do get out into the galaxy, and if (another really big if) they ever do meet other spacefaring races who says that these races will not be "better" than humans? Who says that all creatures are created equally? What's to say that we won't meet some supra-genuis race out in space who wants to make humanity it's plaything? Face it humans are puny soft pink (at least after they've been hung up and skinned) things... There are bound to be bigger badder nastier creatures in this galaxy with more "bonuses" than us, and we will have to make nice or be eaten (at least until we have a big enough armada to tell 'em to take a hike)... Balanced/fair/equal are all terms that have no real meaning unless you're talking math/chemistry and/or weather.

Suck it up, ally yourself with some other soft squishies and gang up on the big bad bully...that's how humans have been doing it for thousands of years, I'm sure it will still work in another thousand years...
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think the Terrans need a hefty research bonus as an initial trait, seeing as how that is supposed to be one of their huge strengths. As xFlukex points out, I also don't understand why humans only have Hyperdrive and everyone else has Ion drives even though humans had the Hyperdrive way before anyone else.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think the Terrans need a hefty research bonus as an initial trait, seeing as how that is supposed to be one of their huge strengths. As xFlukex points out, I also don't understand why humans only have Hyperdrive and everyone else has Ion drives even though humans had the Hyperdrive way before anyone else.



Imho the reason is the following. Humans invented hyper drive, but all the other aliens were space faring civilizations (although just with star gates) for thousends of years.

Ion drive after all is just hyper drive combined with an ion drive. All the hyper drive is doing is folding space, making long voyages into short ones, but you still need to travel those short distances. While humans use their old rocket thrusters to do so, the other races use their established ion drives to cover the short distances left, which gives them an edge over humanity.

Imho the other races having ion drives makes perfect sense for me.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Drath (overpowered):

Abilities: Defense +50%, military production +25%, diplomacy +25%, espionage +50%, logistics +6%
Techs: Hyperdrive, ion drive, galactic warfare, xeno industrial theory, xeno engineering, stellar cartography


Are those what they actually get now in the game ? Unless it's been fixed, I haven't played the Drath in a while so I'm not sure, the listed bonuses are different from what they actually get in the game.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Developers: Why are the races so different in terms of starting abilities? Do 'weak' races like humans get some kind of advantage we can't see? Are there any plans to rebalance the races?
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Humans hidden advantage is simple, I explained it in another post.

The combination of starting with a Diplo Bonus and Xeno Communications is something no other race gets. As long as you are playing with an appropriate ammount of opponents for your map size, you will meet people to trade with very early and Universal Translators are about 2 weeks away. Thus, you can turn around and trade for any starting techs you are missing, easily, especially if you get the diplomatic translators. Can the Drath do something similar? Yes, but not as quick, and not before every other race could have universal translators already.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Then what about the other races? What is their hidden advantage'?

Oh wait! It's that their ships look cool, right?
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Heh.

You could find out by starting a game yourself and exploring you know.

The other less popular races advantages are (assuming 1.1 beta):

Korx - Trade 25%, Economics 15%, Courage 10%, 1 of 3 races to start with the Ion Drive. Starting planets class 10 and 8.

Thalan - Loyalty 40%, Miniaturization 10%. Starting planet class 15, no sub planet.

Iconian - No Racial bonuses. Tied with Yor for the most starting techs, and only race to start with Starship Defenses and Armor theory. Starting planets class 14 and 3.

Torian - Courage 20%, Morale 25%, Luck 10%. Starting planets class 10 and 6.

Altarians - Creativity 30%, Luck 30%. Starting planets class 12 and 3.

Arceans - Starting planets 10 and 5. I fully admit the Arceans got screwed and I can't find any "hidden" bonuses over another race (since many races start with bonuses and a better second planet). They are 1 of 3 races to start with Xeno Communications and a descent tech line though. Altarians are pretty much on par with the Terran tech wise, since stellar cartography is pretty much fluff (seeing planets on the mini map isn't an advantage, when all you have to do is aim for the already visible stars, unless I am missing something). It could mean the developers place heavy favor on starting with Xeno communications. Being able to trade THAT much earlier then everyone else at the start is a big deal. I know whever I start near the Arceans or Altarians, a lot of my tech trade options with other races are gone. Dunno.

Anyway, every race (besides the Arceans, in fact just exclude them from whatever I am saying, they ARE a mystery) starts with something useful. Starting planet quality obviously counts for a lot, as well as starting techs. If you can't see the value in starting with a class 14 and 15 planet then you either "reload" games until you start near one, or not realising that having extra tiles to work with is huge. Then you have the Korx, outside of their descent bonuses, starting with a second planet of 8 means that I would consider settling it earlier rather then later, unlike the rest of the races planets. It means on turn 1 or 2, you get a second starport to build ships with, which means slight faster colonisation and/or constructors. The planet with soil improvements makes a great manufacturing capital or research capital as well. Torians class 6, while I wouldn't make a capital out of, serves much the same purpose. The Arceans again are a it of a mystery, size 5 isn't quite high that I wouldn't make anything out of it other then a research silo which I would also colonize much later, both to save my economy and find something "better" somewhere else.

As I said, on paper, it's not all obvious. It's like civ 4 though, if you only play "one way" and refuse to think outside of the box, or if there is one dominating strategy (if you ever played civ 4, think of chop rushing, it made every civ that started with mining ten times better the other races, but this wasn't a problem with the other civs, it was a problem with the game balance, same thing applies to Gal Civ 2) you won't see the suble differences.