First of all I'm smart and don't rush out and buy a game the 1st day of release. If you do that nowadays I have no pity for you. Everyone who doesn't know games are going to require a patch out of the box is foolish to think so. I got my game March 6th, how about that the very day of the major update. So, no, I haven't found any annoyances. I don't analyze a game and require to know the perfect math system to play it. I play it as it is before me after patching of course. The manual I barely skimmed through, just like most other games I play the game to learn how it works. Played a calkwak game the first time to get the feel of everything then moved into normal difficulty and have been having a ball ever since.

One thing I find is too many people want to be a developer, but, have no money or programming knowledge to be one so they think they should be the designing developers of every game they buy. lol They make a mad rush to the official forum spouting off of what should and should not be in the game or that the game suks. Did you call Parker Brothers up the first time you played Monopoly and tell them the same?

As I said though as long as your comments are "suggestions" for improvements and not RANTS then you might get listened to. But, if you just come across with a RANT and downing the game (which very few really cares if you don't like it) then you're just going to get laughed at like this. lolololololololol

I bought X3: The Reunion, and got bored from it after a day. Not a week, a day. It's gathering dust on my shelf. Did you ONCE see me going to the game's main forum and complaining? Nope. I just know that I won't be buying X4, that's all.

It's a matter of opinion. I think GalCiv2 is great, better than MOO2 ever was in most terms. I dont have a buyer's regret, and I doubt I ever will. This game might be fun even a year or two from now, when I'll get bored from all the other games and just sit down for a nice game of conquer-the-Drengin. Yes, it's this kind of game, at least for me. It's not perfect, but when did you see a game that is? Or anything, for that matter. It's your opinion, and you are completely entitled to it, of course, but I disagree with it, and believe that what you're doing is not really fair to the hard-working devs that created a true labor of love, and it shows, as opposed to many other games on the market.

Keep up the good work, Stardock!

I would just like to say that my post wasn't a fan-boy reply and I tried to write it very well

Now... Jklgon, I can't refute all your points because some are unrefutable BUT... even though the game has bugs and needs some tweaks, the developpers have proven that they're up to their neck in patching it up. I think this shows a level of dedication to their product that many big-name companies lack, I think it's worth giving the game more chance because of that. The changelogs are massive and contain dozens of tweaks suggested by the players. All the things you listed (or almost) can easily be fixed with tweaks and patches - go post them in the "Ideas" forum.
But there are some things you listed that are already fixed:
- You -do- get the benefit of a trade good/galactic achivement if you conquer the planet it's built on - that was in the latest patch.
-The ships -can- be transfered to the game after the patch, what you need to do is load your old saved game, go to your shipyard (all your old ships will appear) then upgrade/re-save them and voila! They're transfered.
-Tool tips have been tweaked and are likely to be tweaked some more.
-Neutrality centers... pre-patch, there weren't any of the "good civ" extra tech, They got in with the patch. I'm guessnig the neutrality centers will come with next patch (1.1) which, based on Stardock's dedication, will probably be within one or two wek.

On other points:
For modability - maybe it's not hyper-modable but it IS modable (and easily modable) to great extents, unlike many other games. That's a bonus, the developpers didn't -have- to give us this, most companies don't bother with this.

Also, I see many of you guys rant about little tweaks that Stardock has demonstrated to be more than willing to include in future patch. Why rant about it? Go post it in the "Easy tweaks to make the game better" post in the "Ideas" forum - the developpers stated that they did read that post (and have proven it so far)

I guess what I'm saying is that NO, the game is not perfect, YES, the game needs more tweaks BUT, the devellopers are working on it, are ready to release tweaks for MONTHS to come (like they did on Galciv1). Let's give them kudos and give them some of our faith. I know we're all disgruntled by the way the other companies handle us but Stardock doesn't seem to fit the mold all that much, they listen to us, they talk to us, they take our ideas into serious consideration and always try to explain their decision with a lenghty post. What other comany can claim to THAT?

I regret ... not buying it earlier.

Anyone else have buyer's regret? Remember that? The title to this thread as put forth by a certain disgruntled gamer? I've noticed that in reading this thread most (dare I say 90% ) is not actually about conducting the anecdotal survey on customer satisfaction that it's title actually lured me in with the promise of , but was seemingly an exercise in self-entertainment by the aforementioned disgruntled gamer. This is not meant to be a 'flame', but as I don't completely understand what constitutes 'flaming', it might be percieved to be. Sorry if that's the case. It just seems to me that this thread was worked by the original poster as a comedian might work his audience. Anyone else think so?

It's just a rant about why I'm frustrated with the game right now, and wondering if anyone else feels the same. Sorry if you thought it was something different. I would have included a poll but I don't think the forum supports that feature.

I'm considering buying the game and came here to see what the fanbase is like.  I used to play MOO, MOO2, and sadly... MOO3.  I tried GalCiv 1 but thought it lacked character (in other words didn't see the other races as anything more than spreadsheet data).   

It's unfortunate that a lot of people here seem to have trouble listening to someone criticise this game.  In my experience, most of the people who bring up problems do so because they like a game and want it to get better.  Sadly it seems many of the people here feel a need to attack others who have any complaint about the game.  For those of you trying to actually help and discuss these issues in a constructive way, thank you.  You're helping make this game better.  Sadly the rabid fanboys are discouraging people like me from getting involved.  Fanaticism isn't what I'm interested in at all.  Thank you Heavensblade23 and others for bringing up your points.  Often when I decided to buy a game, the first thing I do is look to the forums (pity the forum software here is so poor) and see how complaints are handled by the developers and the fans.  It shows the commetment to the game and what sort of lasting potential it has.

Sorry about the double post.  Man I HATE this lame forum software...

geez man,

If a game requires that I read a manual from cover to cover it is not for me. You seem to want to be told how to win the game instead of figuring it out for yourself by playing.

"How many factories should I build?".....Who knows? Figure it out by trial and error like real life. The last factory you build may win the war for you or bring you down in peace time.

"What do farms do ?"....Build some and find out. The fact is sometimes you build them and sometimes yopu don't.

"Three button mouse?"....Buy one FGS, I think you can get one for less than 20 bucks and as far as I know they don't even make 2 button mice anymore. You do know that a scroll wheel works as the third button don't you?

You have a right to your opinion and you know what you want in a game but it seems that you want a game that you can study up on before playing and figure out how to win on your first and every subsequent try at the highest level of difficulty.

The rules of the game are the same each time you play and the strategy that works will (barring human error) work most of the time at the same level of difficulty.

It's really amusing to see the gripes of people who say the design choices are poor in the game.

In galciv 1, it was far much worse. Exemple : Charged for social production not happening? In galciv 1 you paid for ALL production, happening or not, not just social.

Non-transparent game mechanics?

Hell, they ARE transparent, compared to what galciv 1 was.

Bad UI? The hell you're talking about. I love how I can rotate the view on the UI however I like. You don't like the scroller? It's the best thing to happen to mouses since the ball.

Heavensblade23:

Again, I shouldn't have to do that. It's unintuitive and it interupts the flow of the game to have to stop and post, and then wait for an answer, and then go back to the game. If all else fails it should be in the manual. I realize they can't correct the printed manual but there's no reason they can't fire up Acrobat and correct the PDF version.

If anyone else has read the thread "Get rid of the insanity in this game", then you can see what I mean by ^this^ crap. Complain, whine, "I shouldn't have to do this, I shouldn't have to do that. Everything should already be done for me, I shouldn't have to ever lift a finger or work for something that I want or want to find out". My God in heaven, this is getting old. You, are acting like an immature child who doesn't truely want the issue resolved, but just wants to complain, whine, and bring down the game and everyone who plays it that actually enjoys something for a change. If you like 90% of this game, but hate 10% of it, then you really shouldn't be complaining so much, or else your 'math' is way off. If that 10% is so bad that it ruins the game for you, then it really isn't 10%. It should be a much greater factor than that if it's really taking away THAT much from the game. Or else, you're just really, really picky and if something isn't EXACTLY to your liking (like the 10% you've been ranting about this whole thread), then you go off to the forums and start being a whiner, complainer, and nay-sayer.

And if you don't like having to do something (in this case, asking for help on forums), then you have a serious problem. You can't just expect everything to go perfectly smooth in a game because that's impossible and will NEVER happen. And, if you can't bring yourself to simply ask kindly on a forum for some help, then you have an even worse problem.

Spearthrower:

Wow.... the original poster is 90% happy with the product and is STILL complaining? What the hell you got to do to keep people happy these days?

I'd like to know the answer to this too man. All it seems that people can do is whine, complain, act like complete jerks, and think only of themselves. It is completely ridiculous and wrong.

Taliesinangelus:

There is a thing called "constructive criticism" and a thing called "unconstructive criticism." Constructive criticism involves real and sincere yet positive engagement with a process or subject with a focus on improving it for everyone involved. Unconstructive criticism has as its aim a deconstruction or destruction of the process or subject through highly negative means. I find the original poster unconstructive in their criticisms of the process and subject as the majority of their posts here have lacked real engagement with the material and are definitely negatively aligned. The goal of the original poster, as far as I can tell up to this point, is to undermine others' enjoyment of the game. It would lend much more credence to the original poster's words and methodology if they would move to a more constructive approach. That would involve making positive suggestions without the "this will make or break my game" attitude. It would also involve taking steps to illuminate what exactly they found good about the game that should be kept at all costs - the "90%" mentioned at the beginning. A fair and equitable examination of the subject and process would go a long way to satisfying both "sides" of the arguments presented. Speak the truth, Citizen Heavensblade23 , but speak it equitably with fairness to the game and the community.

Exactly, exactly, exactly! I agree with you 100%, whole-heartedly. There is such a thing as 'constructive criticism' in this world, but people usually can't bring themselves to do that because they're either too lazy, think only of themselves, can only say bad things about anything and everything, or just don't care to actually be helpful and just wanna rant and complain and be jerks. If you, Heavensblade23, or anyone else who whines and complains like he is doing over what HE says is a measly 10% of a game, then you should know that you won't get any help or concern from me, and I could care less about you because you think only of yourself. And I know for certain that there are others that feel the same way as I do about all this complianing and ranting in this world, NOT just for this game.

"The part where you postulate "solutions" mocking the developers is not."

All of the solutions I posted are doable - easily doable. I know, because I'm a programmer. It's really that simple. And you can only see this as "mocking" if you've somehow elevated the devs to superhuman status - which I won't. I know they're guys just like me, who happen to be able to program. Nothing other than just plain ol' humans, no different than the guy who picks up my trash or cleans the office.

"Some people look for every opportunity to complain without considering that their approach might not be useful at all to actually address the issue at hand."

Ah, geez - you mean where I actually do things like a) point out the specific problems, and give specific solutions? Guess some folks are never satsified....

And then there's this gem:

"s I said though as long as your comments are "suggestions" for improvements and not RANTS then you might get listened to. But, if you just come across with a RANT and downing the game (which very few really cares if you don't like it) then you're just going to get laughed at like this. lolololololololol"

It's a game, not a religion. A PRODUCT. It's no different than buying a toaster. If your toaster doesn't work propery then OF COURSE YOU COMPLAIIN. And you have every right to, since you spent good money on that toaster.

Games don't get a special pass. And you don't get to decide that your precious toy is exempt from criticism just because you happen to like it. Posting as if you just hit puberty doesn't do anything but make you look like your mama didn't bother to b!tch-slap any manners into you when you were growing up.

And on to this:

"For modability - maybe it's not hyper-modable but it IS modable (and easily modable) to great extents, unlike many other games. That's a bonus, the developpers didn't -have- to give us this, most companies don't bother with this."

Nobody's doing us a favor here. The game was hyped as very moddable, which it clearly isn't and which any veteran modder will see. And yes, most games these days DO bother with making their games moddable (computer games, console trash doesn't count); it's considered to be part of the package now. Go ahead and take a look at all the popular strategy games and you'll note that they're moddable. More moddable than GalCiv2. Hell, even RPGs like Morrowind and NWN are more moddable than GalCiv2 where it counts - game mechanics.

I realize this doesn't matter to 95% of the players, but for the other 5% it's going to be an issue. It would've been better to hype it as coming with "very limited modability" but then marketing often has little to do with the truth. In this case "marketing" and "reality" didn't really seem to cross paths much at all.

" Let's give them kudos and give them some of our faith."

It's a game, a commercial product. I don't give 'faith' or 'loyalty' to commercial products. The seller gets my MONEY, which is far more likely to put food on his family's table than 'faith' is. My MONEY is more valuable than my loyalty, and that's exactly the way it should be. If they want more of my MONEY when GalCiv3 hits the market, they need to fix GalCiv2. I listed some very specific things I want fixed - some little things, a couple of big things. They can either a) fix them and get more of my money later on down the road, or not fix them, in which case (being older and not prone to posturing like so many college kids are) I won't buy from them again.

And this:

"You seem to want to be told how to win the game instead of figuring it out for yourself by playing."

We call this a 'strawman argument', which your entire post consists of. Completely beside the point and having nothing to do with the criticism made of the game. You might try brushing up on your reading comprehension skills before veering wildly off-topic on your own little rant.

If you want an easy win, that's really, really simple: just modify whatevermyracenameis.raceconfig to give yourself super stats, and no matter how high the difficulty you'll trash the AI. It's hardly rocket science, and has nothing whatsoever to do with either the OPs comments or my own (my rebuttal strawman).

And this:

"Hell, they ARE transparent, compared to what galciv 1 was."

An argument that boils down to "it's better than GalCiv1 was, so suck it up and shut up". So we're supposed to be grateful because the aspects of the game which sucked a lot in v1 don't suck quite so much in v2. That's got to be the silliest thing anyone's said on this thread, somewhere along the lines of "eventually they'll get it right, so keep shoveling that money!"

Once again, I'll say: if any of you have a problem of some sort with someone posting criticism of a GAME then chill out, take some Prozac, see a shrink - whatever. Remember that it's just a game, just entertainment, a product like any other. Elevating it to a religion and the devs to priesthood is a sign of a mind badly out of touch with reality.

Max

An argument that boils down to "it's better than GalCiv1 was, so suck it up and shut up". So we're supposed to be grateful because the aspects of the game which sucked a lot in v1 don't suck quite so much in v2. That's got to be the silliest thing anyone's said on this thread, somewhere along the lines of "eventually they'll get it right, so keep shoveling that money

Well, yes. The game is an improvement in your direction, even though they didn't have to change their design. Obviously they made a compromise between their vision of the game and the wants of players who share your views and that should be good enough. It's better then Galciv 1 and it's fun. I don't see what the big ruckus is about.

If you don't like the design ideas behind the game, why bother whining about it? They're not gonna change the game for you.

Fix: none. Have to wait for GC3 on that one. Although the same comments were made about GC1 and nothing was done about them, so I don't have much hope for GC3 either.

It is comments like that one that I see as mocking the developers, Citizen maxpublic. Most of your other comments are constructive. That one and those like that one are not. Maybe that should make things more clear for you.

All I can say to Citizen ChosenOne197 is "Amen."

If you don't like the design ideas behind the game, why bother whining about it? They're not gonna change the game for you.

Exactly. If you don't like them, then I'm sorry, that's too bad, they probably aren't going to be changed no matter how selfiish you are, and no matter how much you whine and complain that you don't like it. So, it breaks down to this, and it's quite simple:

Complaining, unconstructive-critism, whining, and nay-saying can never, and will never do anybody any REAL good, and usually just makes the problem worse or harder to get by.

See how simple and easy that is to comprehend? It probably won't be to people like you, maxpublic, because you're too caught up in yourself and what YOU want, to see the situation any other way.

And also taliesinangelus, thank you for your support, you show much more maturity and discretion than a lot of people on these forums (actually, for that matter, than just a lot of other people, period).

Oh, and I have one question for you all, everyone, especially the complainers:

(I'm using maxpublic's toaster example so that it's as clear as it can be for him)

If indeed you do buy a toaster and it doesn't work properly or it breaks down, then honestly, what good WILL complaining do for you or the toaster or your problem? I'd like an honest answer to this, because when you really break it down and think about it, the only thing YOU'RE thinking about when you complain is YOURSELF. That's it, that's the truth. Just think about it, you're complaining because something went wrong with something in your life, that's obvious. But, what real good will complaining do for the situation BESIDES possibly making yourself feel better because you put your trouble, worries, and blames on somebody else's shoulders by complaining? Hmm? What real good will it actually do? None. It will NOT help any situation whatsoever except make YOU feel better because all you can think of is YOURSELF and what YOU want. If you can honestly say and feel different than that about complaining, then you're in deep trouble, and I really truely do hope that someone or something can help you someday.

Edit, double post. Sorry.

No buyers regret. Fun game.
As far as the argument/rant that the mechanics aren't transparent . . I would argue that some (myself) wish that they were less.

I want to manage a civ. I want to have to learn the way it works and beat it at rules I don't know exist yet. I don't want to see what might be down the line in a tech tree. I want the -magic- of immersion.

The UI is different, not bad. Different takes me into the world that was created. It's only unintuitive until I learn it. Using a mouse was unintuitive for my two-year old until she got it. Touchpads were no big deal after that.

If you think that the game mechanics are the game . . try a round of Excel; I heard it rocks.

And if you don't like having to do something (in this case, asking for help on forums), then you have a serious problem. You can't just expect everything to go perfectly smooth in a game because that's impossible and will NEVER happen. And, if you can't bring yourself to simply ask kindly on a forum for some help, then you have an even worse problem.

This is just like the three mouse button thing. I manage to play just about every other game on the market without consulting a web forum and playing a game of 20 questions. A game that can't be played with the stuff included in the box is poorly designed.

You know how many times I can think of, off the top of my head, where I had to consult a web forum just to play a game? Maybe two or three times. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the part with the three turrets in Half Life 2, and tons of people were getting stuck there.

Let me repeat that again for emphasis: A game that requires you to consult a web forum just to play effectively is not well designed or intuitive.

In galciv 1, it was far much worse. Exemple : Charged for social production not happening? In galciv 1 you paid for ALL production, happening or not, not just social. Non-transparent game mechanics? Hell, they ARE transparent, compared to what galciv 1 was.

I guess I shouldn't complain about this broken leg then, because having two broken legs is worse.

A game that requires you to consult a web forum just to play effectively is not well designed or intuitive

*I* didn't have to consult anything to play effectively. Maybe it's *you* that needs some dev attention.

Hmmm, I'm going to be evil here and say that's because you're lacking some logic capabilities?

BUT WAIT, I'm not saying you're dumb - it's been proven time and time again that people have different kind of "intelligence" maybe game mechanics isn't one of your forte

Personally, I never came across any game that I couldn't understand after some trial-and-error.

I think too many people just give up if they don't understand at first, or after a short while. I work with many dumb people (not just lacking in logic skills, just plain dumb) and they never understand anything by themselves - always have to explain things to them.

Now I'm no genius, I'm barely average, but I didn't have a problem with GalCiv1 - it took me maybe a week and then all was clear and I was kicking ass. GalCiv2, being similar, was easier for me to get into but it is by no way -harder- to understand than the first one. For all that matters, it's even -easier- to get into.

I guess what I'm saying is that the game has everything you need to understand it - I did, many people did. Some people did not. Lack of logic, lack of patience? I can't say. I'm just saying that if the majority "gets it" then the game isn't "Broken" or anything - maybe the users are.

And by the way, I'd like to reiterate that I already bought the game, and I can't get a refund. Pretty much the only thing I can do at this point is complain in the proper place (which is here) and hope the developers are listening. If they want to give me a refund I'll shut up and never post here again, but personally I'd say the productive thing to do, and the thing that's best for their bottom line, is to try to make as many people happy as possible. If they succeed in making me happy with my purchase in the end, I'll probably buy GalCiv3. If they don't, well, then, I won't, and I'm sure the developers would rather have my $50 than to not have it.

I think too many people just give up if they don't understand at first, or after a short while. I work with many dumb people (not just lacking in logic skills, just plain dumb) and they never understand anything by themselves - always have to explain things to them.

It's a game, not a job. If I'm not having fun, I quit playing, and play something else. I'm busy from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed. If I sit down to play a game, it damn well better be entertaining or else it's going back on the shelf. Games that sit on the shelf and collect dust don't generally inspire me to purchase their sequels. It's much easier to lose a consumer's confidence than it is to regain it.

While most of the people that posted in this thread said they like the game overall, there were 3 or 4 people who said they agree with me, and about 3 or 4 more that said they agreed with me on certain points.

Based on the number of posts in this thread, and discarding duplicate posters, that's about 8-10% who agreed with me in whole or in part.

I'm clearly not alone in my complaints.

Oh, why did you quote the part where I ranted about the people I work with

I think I said it before. Maybe it's not the kind of game for you. 4X games usually have higher time requirements than FPSes or the like. RTS fall in-between.