Gameplay Bug/oversight

>50 turns is not that much , build more factories at start and it will rock.

Eh, if I really care, I usually buy the first factory outright anyway. It's faster that way.

He is right. Usually even when i buy the first couple of factories the problem is the same as you need more of them to build other expensive buildings and ships. Please Stardock, adress that!

Yeah...this is a known issue that was pointed out during the beta and gamma test process. It may be fixed at some point but there wasn't time to rework the planetary build queue before release.

I totally agree. Even buying a couple of factories doesn't help thst much. You should be able to build earlier versions of the buildings and then upgrade them. We dont forget the older tech in real life when we find a better one, do we ?

Yeah...this is a known issue that was pointed out during the beta and gamma test process

Yes. And a very annoying one if you want to play the "Battle of Gods" scenario

First off, war costs money. Thus you'd be wise to not initiate ANY war unless you have a large surplus of money and are able to actually fund your campaign of aggression. Rebuilding conquered worlds is part of this campaign. Yes it sucks, but that's generally what war does best; it sucks.

In summary; War costs a lot of money. Want to conquer worlds? Be prepared to face the price tag.

Seriously, i hate it when people start demanding stuff in strategy games to make it easier. It's already dead simply to begin with. Conquered colonies in this game don't even seem to act as conquered worlds but happily live under your rule. You don't even need to garrison the planet to keep it from playing a game of switcheroo. Eliminating the obstacles you face during a game only serves to take the fun and challenge out of a game.

Hell, if anything, war should be a lot harder then in this game. Colonies recently conquered should receive temporary penalties like reduced morale/production/etc. This way you actually have to get your two last braincells out of the gutter and put 'm to work if you want to hold on to a prize as vast as an entire planet populated with billions of recently conquered aliens who most likely aren't going to be happy. You shouldn't be able to take over half a dozen of colonies and expect them to happily cooperate with their conquerers without a massive occupation army or something.

Which brings me to my second point; War takes time. you don't conquer entire empires in mere weeks. Take your time when at war. Don't rush across the galaxy, spreading your resources and most definately cause the pricetag of your losses to go up even further. Ofcourse you can't rebuild 6 conquered worlds at a time. That'd be rediculous. Pick your targets. Use espionage to scout out the enemies economical HQ as your prime target and bleed them to death (or main manufacturing planet to cut their ship building capacity). Sign cease fire pacts when it suits you. In general just play your cards right.

It's called a strategy game for a reason!

Buy some factories. Be patient.

I assume that the reason everyone on my conquered planet likes me and wants to work hard is that I sent down 1 billion+ shock troops to get rid of anyone who was unhappy with me as supreme ruler.

I think what the OP is trying to say is that at mid-game, the newer factories are too expensive and take too long to build on a new world compared to the factories at the start of the game, and there should be an option to use the older factories as 'starter kits'.

It's not a matter of patience or making it easier, it's about not having your old technology inaccessable.

And conquered planets can't flip because all the original inhabitants are dead. The only ones left on the planet are your troops.

"We dont forget the older tech in real life when we find a better one, do we ?"

I think we do

Actually capturing planets at middle and/or end stage in the game isn't about getting them to produce stuff for you. It's all about denying those resources and strategic locations to your enemies. So I’m gonna have to go with a working as intended thing.

Tremo I'm not in the mood for a flamewar or a discussion about my 'last two braincells'. Nor am I in any way suggesting they should make the game easier. All I am saying is that we should have an option to use old tech for the obvious reasons. But even if we could travel down that road, it would still take many, many turns before a planet contributes significantly, but at least it will - eventually! And that is the point.

I would have to agree. It is not a game killer, but it does make the utilization of conquered planets a little worthless. Logically, why should a newly conquered planet be so much more difficult to develop then a new colony.

"We dont forget the older tech in real life when we find a better one, do we ?" I think we do

Then why are houses still being built with fireplaces?

I think if the AI (or player) can empty the planet of buildings, then the attacker should be able to raze as well. There are alot of times when I'd rather cripple an opponents planet and let him/her deal with it than conquer and build it up myself.

Then why are houses still being built with fireplaces?

But how many people use an old tech fireplace for actually heating their house (As opposed to a quaint decorative addition that they fire up occasionally for a romantic evening).

(I have a new-fangled wood furnace that I use for heating, but it isn't a fireplace).

But how many people use an old tech fireplace for actually heating their house (As opposed to a quaint decorative addition that they fire up occasionally for a romantic evening).

heh....even with all our technology, nothing beats fire for settin' the mood....

(EDIT: ok, so maybe alcohol does......but it's made with fire.....)

Tremo I'm not in the mood for a flamewar or a discussion about my 'last two braincells'. Nor am I in any way suggesting they should make the game easier. All I am saying is that we should have an option to use old tech for the obvious reasons. But even if we could travel down that road, it would still take many, many turns before a planet contributes significantly, but at least it will - eventually! And that is the point.

If i offended you, this was not my intention. I find that my post was nothing but constructive. Also, I was also referring to my own last 2 braincells However, you shouldn't be so easily offended

But back to the topic at hand, you claim you aren't suggesting to make it easier. Yet, the whole point of the OP is to make it less hard to build new colonies. And making it less hard is the exact same thing as making it easier.

The moment they implement stuff like this is the day I quit playing. It happened with so many strategy games that I've played, where they toook the strategy part out of the equation. I don't want such rediculous zerg rush producing planets. I don't want to conquer entire empires in mere weeks and turn it into a completely dominant production centre. I want to have to strategically think about how I wage war instead of zerg rushing my enemies all the while turning their planets in additional production centres to make it even easier to decimate the enemy.

There are tools such as espionage and diplomacy at your disposal for a reason. Use them.

As for the inability to build new structures within a reasonable time-frame; put more emphasis on your economy. War costs money. No, scratch that; Everything costs money. If you have lots, you can easily take a colony and build it from the ground up even if you have the latest buildings. on top of that, keep an eye on your research. Don't just research weapons and buildings, also concentrate on Trade (!!!) and Diplomacy. These will also allow you to rake in the cash to fund your war campaign.

Just to reiterate; Prepare before you go to war. Ask yourself a few quastions, such as;

- Do i have the money?
- Do i have the ships?
- Do i have back-up ships in case things go wrong?
- Do i have the appropriate tech level in all areas to fund and support my war?
- Do i have a high espionage level? (optional but highly recommended)
- Do i want a Blitz Krieg or do I want to take out key planets that I scouted out using espionage and then work my way outwards taking down the now weakened hostile empire?

Prepare, prepare, prepare! If you do this, you should have no problems whatsoever winning the war and then you can concentrate on rebuilding the left-overs. You can support it by building military bases near the colonies you captured to speed up production. You can casually get some cash to kick-start the first factories without having to worry about the enemy.

You just shouldn't run head-on into a war expecting it to be a cake walk. War isn't supposed to be easy. Supporting conquered worlds isn't supposed to be easy. But you can make it much less hard on yourself if you plan ahead.

The problem is not how war has to be waged, but is about the difficulty equipping empty planets when you have an hgh tech level.
First it's illogical not to allow lower tech buildings from being built. AFAIK settlers in the US wilderness didn't start by building marble palaces .
Second the game lacks a means to redirect production from to a planet. Think of it as raw materials and temp workers being sent to the planet, or whatever.
MoO1 has a neat feature allowing to "subsidize" a planet (via money), which was then converted to production but only up to 2x the normal planet production. Other games (Stars!) allowed to ship "physically" materials, etc..

The problem is not how war has to be waged, but is about the difficulty equipping empty planets when you have an hgh tech level.

This isn't as much of a problem as you might think. It's either costly or it takes time. Neither of which make it 'difficult' by any means. But once again, it can be neither time consuming nor costly if you have a good economy running in the background. Economy is as much a part of the game as anything. Spend some time fiddling around with it.

Ow, and a few dozen turns really isn't THAT much time if you play on anything besides a small map. And if you do think it's much, do other things. Build military bases to support your manufacturing capability on the colonies in question. Check if your trade routes are intact and maxed out. Build influence/economy bases. Max out your mining stations. Design new ships.

Lots of stuff to do in between to keep your empire running at peek proficiency.

First it's illogical not to allow lower tech buildings from being built. AFAIK settlers in the US wilderness didn't start by building marble palaces .

yes, it is illogical. Factories from the 70s can't produce parts for an F-16 for example. neither could a television factory from the 70s make flat-screen plasma TVs. No matter how hard you try, manufacturing technology has to be up to date to build the latest technology.

Second the game lacks a means to redirect production from to a planet. Think of it as raw materials and temp workers being sent to the planet, or whatever.

Nope, also illogical. Unless you want to build a dictatorship that doesn't shy away from slavery and forced labour. You can't force your colonists to work on some far away planet, away from the friends and family and not expect a serious morale and approval penalty.

This is probably why they have military starbases. they improve the manufacturing capability for a planet. Most likely by being a rally point for raw materials from other planets.

MoO1 has a neat feature allowing to "subsidize" a planet (via money), which was then converted to production but only up to 2x the normal planet production. Other games (Stars!) allowed to ship "physically" materials, etc..

You can focus in this game. In the planet overview screen you can press the small button above the three catagories (manufacturing/social/research) to increase it's respective productivity. The other two will be lowered though.

Oops, double post. the forum was wonky... my bad

Good point Tremo, I guess I overreacted a bit there because your writing style seemed so reminiscent to that used by professional trollers

I agree with everything you write, no argument there. It shouldn't be a cakewalk at all, in fact, I would applaud adding some extra features like that you must maintain good morale or have marines on conquored planets just like you had in MOO2, or face rebellion.

But like pdifolco noted, its just illogical having done all this, that it should be impossible to develop your conquored world like any other, i.e., from scratch with scratch tech. Getting a decent sized planet constructed with the lowest tech still takes in the order of 30 turns, and before all the upgrades are installed and the planet is able to contribute to the war effort, you are in all probably 60 or so turns away, and thats not what I call a cakewalk.

However, in the current system, if you don't spend huge amounts of cash (50k+), they won't become fully developed before the game is over. Or do you usually play with more than 100k in your bank account?

edit: on the other hand, might be interesting to see if you can win purely by money

Good point Tremo, I guess I overreacted a bit there because your writing style seemed so reminiscent to that used by professional trollers

I don't know if i should laugh or feel offended... so I'll just laugh. Hehe...

But like pdifolco noted, its just illogical having done all this, that it should be impossible to develop your conquored world like any other, i.e., from scratch with scratch tech. Getting a decent sized planet constructed with the lowest tech still takes in the order of 30 turns, and before all the upgrades are installed and the planet is able to contribute to the war effort, you are in all probably 60 or so turns away, and thats not what I call a cakewalk.

I can agree with this, but there would have to be a limiter. Namely, the inability to produce ships from the colony in question untill it has at least 1 up-to-date factory to produce the high-tech materials needed for advanced warships. then i could agree with it. But to allow low-tech factories to produce highly advanced materials for ships and such, would be illogical at best and retarded at worst.

However, in the current system, if you don't spend huge amounts of cash (50k+), they won't become fully developed before the game is over. Or do you usually play with more than 100k in your bank account?

I never have to spend 50k+ to develop a planet.

Buy the first factory -> turn on focus on manufacturing, this should add several manufacturing points -> build a military starbase or 2 within the planet's range to add another 20% (IIRC) of manufacturing points, and these 20% grow as your # of factories grow (at this point you should be able to churn out 1 constructor every 2 turns at your manufacturing capitol) -> build, not buy, the second factory and this should only take a dozen or maybe a few more turns and that'll decrease with every factory built.

edit: on the other hand, might be interesting to see if you can win purely by money

Use diplomacy to sell some techs instead of trading them. This way i've raked in several K per tech when traded with a low diplomacy race. This will slightly slow down your game, but that just gives you more time to develop the rest of you economy and trade by the way of markets, trade routes and economic starbases (which tax trade routes as well ).

It would be cool if there was a factory module you could put on a cargo ship. When the cargo ship hit a friendly planet it would insta-build an factory on the colony. I guess they'd have to make it really expensive and large to balance the game (and require a tech for it.).

I can see perhaps allowing you to continue building an improvement that's one step below your current tech level, but no lower. As production methods become obsolete, they're forgotten in any capacity that would be useful for mass projects.

As has been noted before, a crippled planet is one of the risks of war. If rebuilding were that easy, improvement-damaging invasion techniques would have to be much less effective to be balanced.

I hate to say this but most of the main tech in an F-16 was designed in the seventies. And a factory from teh 40's could build all the parts but the electronics. That being said I like the system like it is. If I can just buy a bunch of factories in a few turns then I can effectively rush the enemy.

I would also like to point out that there is no original population left when you attack the planet. Those that dont join you from information warfare die. That is why you fight the whole planet to the death. The population that is on the planet after a successful invasion are your own soldiers. That is why they are totally loyal. Whether you think that is realistic is something else, but that is how the game works. They should be no issue with morale becasue believe me there is no morale higher than that of a victorious group of soldiers.