Power plants and their utilities

from GalCiv2 Forums
I wonder if these considerations are true.
I think the utility of power plants depends on the global value of the planet's industry.
First of all, I go to the summary screen and check my industry's mp.
Then, if I have an open tile and if the bonus of the power plant, applied to the industry's mp, is greater than the increase I could get building my current level of factory on that open tile, then the power plant is worthy of building (apart from the problem of the maintenance fee).
This is the formula, IMHO:

GIMP = global value of the planet's industry;
BPP = bonus of the power plant;
IMP = mp's value of the type of factory I can build at that level;

if (GIMP * BPP) + GIMP > (GIMP + IMP) then it's better to build a power plant, otherwise I go for the factory.

The same is true if I don't have an open tile and choose to upgrade a building other than a factory (but, in this case, I lose the benefit of the building I sacrifice, obviously).

If, on the other hand, having no open tiles, I choose to upgrade a factory, the formula changes:

if [(GIMP - IMP) * BPP] + (GIMP - IMP) > GIMP the factory sacrifice is worthy of being made.

As you can see, unless you wait to build power plants when you have researched the latest type of them and of factories, all depends on the level of factories and power plants you actually have reached. One have also to pay attention to asteroid's bonus, because reassigning them changes the GIMP of planets

I calculated that, having researched Manufacturing Centres (10 IMP) and Quantum Power Plants (30% BPP), if you choose to upgrade a Manufacturing Centre in a Quantum Power Plants, your GIMP must be equal or higher than 44, otherwise you lose GIMP.

Well. All this in theory. In fact, I upgraded a Manufacturing Centre in a Quantum Power Plant on a planet with 52 GIMP (let's call it Alpha). After the upgrading I compare it with another planet with 52 GIMP without any type of power plant (let's call it Beta).
I emptied the building queue and checked that neither of the two planets were building ships.
At this point, I noticed that:
1) if I focused the research, social production were higher on Alpha (13 vs. 12) - right;
2) if I focused the social production, it were higher on Beta (I don't recall the numbers) - ?;
3) if I started building a ship and focused the military production, it were higher on Alpha - right.

I don't understand fully point number 2); maybe that, when you focus the social production, the game calculate it considering only the IMP and not the BPP? If so, the construction of a power plant, given all the circumstances, may result in a save of money.

If anyone will conduct some experiments on this matter, I'll gladly reed the results.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
It's not the power plant that gave you veird results. It's the focus. It seems to me that it doesn't work right when there's no production in either social or military queue, and focus is on one of them. However I'm too lazy to check what's really going on.

BR, Iztok
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yes, I know that you can see the real power of Power Plants when you build something and focus accordingly your production. What I meant (my apologies if I didn't explain it well before) is that I expected to see some little differences even when building nothing. This is the reason because I do not fully understand why focusing the social production on the two planets resulted in a greater value on Beta, which haven't the power plant. Anyway I conducted another "experiment" with ECO 08, a class 16 planet with a fully grown population of 20.00 b and 5 Industrial Sectors (72 mp - if you can build Industrial Sectors and Quantum Power Plants, the minimum value of planet's industry must be 52 mp for the power plant to be worthy of being built).
I tried all the possible combinations of production (nothing, ships, social projects) and focus (none, military, social, research) and took note of each value. I took note also of spending and maintenance.
Then I upgraded an Industrial Sector to a Quantum Power Plant and repeated the entire process. This time all worked well. I obtained better value both in military and social production, even without any focus. Also the research production's value was higher, but only if I focused on research, otherwise it didn't change.
A thing I observed seems to me very interesting: I have noticed long ago that the better way to reduce the spending of a planet without modifying any buildings is to empty the social project's queue, construct no ship and focusing on social or military. Well, the construction of a power plant, given the proper circumstances, not only increases the planet's production, but lowers the planet's "cost" (spending + maintenance) when it is idle. ECO 08 costed to me, for its mere existence, 104, before the building of the power plant (focusing, as I said, on social or military); after, the cost lowered to 100. A mere "4", you can say, but in huge galaxies, when you control more or less a hundred of planets, multiplying a mere "4" for 122 (my colonies, till now) may make a difference, albeit a little one.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Did either of your test planets have a moon? It would change the final mps, and anything derived from those mps. Also, if the concern is a difference in tp under a research focus, does one of the planets have rings?

drrider
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There is an additional detail which you should keep in mind. Base production in mps cost 1 BC per mp while bonus production only costs 0.5 BC per hammer. Thus the extra production obtained with a power plant is at half the price. Also, since your spending on production (military+social vs. research) affects your base production changing the spending ratio can bring the GIMP above/below the 52 mp threshold. Making powerplants more or less desirable depending on your future strategy.

Assume that we are spending 100% on military, no production bonusses and a planet with 52 mps (4 industrial sectors, 12 mps a piece + 1 asteroid adding 4 mp). Then building a starship would mean spending 52 BC per turn (52 mp = 52 BC). Adding another industrial sector would then increase the production by 12 mp at a cost of 12 BC per turn. If we add a Quantum Powerplant instead then we gain a bonus production of 15.6 mp (15 rounded down, can't remember how the game does it) and it only costs 15.6/2 = 7.8 BCs (7 rounded down). Thus the power plant adds more production AND does it at a much cheaper price.

Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Have we validated that "bonus" production due to power plants is at half-price? I know that bonus production from economy starbases is half-price, but I was under the impression that you pay 100% for power plants. I haven't crunched the numbers myself, though.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just have to ask... has anyone had their head explode yet from all the math?
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just have to ask... has anyone had their head explode yet from all the math?



No, but the only reason is that it goes in one ear and out the other . My most advanced math course was in high school, many a moon ago . . .
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Did either of your test planets have a moon? It would change the final mps, and anything derived from those mps. Also, if the concern is a difference in tp under a research focus, does one of the planets have rings?

drrider



What do moons and rings do? What is mps again?
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I can't believe nobody has yelled "Bring out the GIMP!" yet. Please allow me to be the first.

I only use power plants on my focused military production worlds and only late in the game. I don't bother with the first few power plant types, and I usually don't bother researching it as I often seem to acquire them via conquest or espionage. All that said, I haven't crunched the numbers.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
(Citizen)KesselringMay 14, 2007 16:18:47Reply #8

Did either of your test planets have a moon? It would change the final mps, and anything derived from those mps. Also, if the concern is a difference in tp under a research focus, does one of the planets have rings?

drrider




What do moons and rings do? What is mps again?


Moons add 10% planetary manufacturing bonus.
Rings add 10% planetary research bonus.

'mps' should probably have been written 'mp's'. mp's are manufacturing points, tp's are technology points, and ip's are influence points (in the syntax used in the manual and the in-game summary screens, tips, and pop-ups.)

drrider
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just have to ask... has anyone had their head explode yet from all the math?


I have a tendency to skip over all that stuff. Its just a war strategy game after all. You just build what you have to in order to make enough transports and ships to take over all the planets. I usually end up with 20 to 100 planets, theres no time to start planning power plants, or any other frills for that sake. Just keep building factories, and labs. The rest is fluff. When you take over a planet, take everything off of it that is fluff. All those influence bonuses are also of no value. You will gain more influence by taking over a big planet, save the tiles.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have a tendency to skip over all that stuff. Its just a war strategy game after all. You just build what you have to in order to make enough transports and ships to take over all the planets. I usually end up with 20 to 100 planets, theres no time to start planning power plants, or any other frills for that sake. Just keep building factories, and labs. The rest is fluff. When you take over a planet, take everything off of it that is fluff. All those influence bonuses are also of no value. You will gain more influence by taking over a big planet, save the tiles.


Er...A power plant allows you to use a single tile for additional production equivalent to several more factories/manu ctrs/manu sectors. Instead of for just one more factory. How is that fluff? And you don't have to plan it to any extent - just any time you already have 4 factories, make the next build a power plant (actually late in the game you should build it after your 3rd factory). One time per planet.

drrider

PS - BTW, for some of us it is a strategy game but not necessarily just a war game. I'd much rather win without ever fighting a war. Very tough to do, though.

PPS - The most efficient economies for high difficulty games are either factories and markets/banks, or labs and markets/banks, not factories and labs.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I can't believe nobody has yelled "Bring out the GIMP!" yet. Please allow me to be the first.




"I think the gimp is sleeping"....."Well, then you better wake him up now, shouldn't you?"

ahh i love Pulp Fiction
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
PPS - The most efficient economies for high difficulty games are either factories and markets/banks, or labs and markets/banks, not factories and labs.



Please explain what you mean? Some poser plants only give you 10%. You would need 10 existing plants to equal one new plant.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"PPS - The most efficient economies for high difficulty games are either factories and markets/banks, or labs and markets/banks, not factories and labs."

Please explain what you mean?

There are two strategies to maximizing the output from factories or labs. If you build both factories or labs, you can't fully fund both, so instead only build factories or labs.
(1) build only labs, set global and research spending to 100%, and on planets set the focus to either military or social
Adv: Labs produced more than factories at the same level.
Tech Capital gives a 100% bonus vs. the Manu Capital's 33%.
Other planetary improvements provide research bonuses.
R. Galactic resources provide a research bonus, no resources boost manufacturing.
Disadv: Can't produce all three military, social, and research on a planet, only two at the most.
(2) build only factories, set global spending to 100%, set military/social totaling 100% (research to 0%), and on planets set the focus to research.
Adv: Can produce all three military, social, and research on a planet.
Disadv: See the advantages of the all labs strategy.

Both of these strategies will boost your output but also your spending, so you need to master making money in GalCivII as well. You want to grow your population quickly by keeping morale at 100% until your population reaches its max. Choose the super breeder ability or the 40% population growth race bonus! Research economic and morale techs and grab as many economic and morale resources as you can.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
PS - BTW, for some of us it is a strategy game but not necessarily just a war game. I'd much rather win without ever fighting a war. Very tough to do, though.


Hey! Wadda ya know! I pretty much did this in my last game, finally. [Gigantic, Rare-all, Punishing, Very-Slow Tech, messing with beta 1.6...er...-7?]

One war was declared on me early, by Arceans while we were at opposite ends of the map with virtually no overlap to our ranges. They said "Oops! Maybe not. Let's coexist" after about 40-50 turns of no contact.

Other than that I fought pirates and Jagged Knife, briefly.

Other than that I managed to stay on Close or Warm relations with Arceans, Yor, Iconians, Thalans, Korx (later taken over entirely by Fundamentalists), and Drath through the whole game. I flipped all 5 (!) of the Drath planets at about mid-game and peacefully assimilated the whole civ! Well, except for their whole fleet going pirate, but then those guys kept attacking my armed-up SBs and the patrol of 5 Rangers I had cleaning up, so that didn't last long.

I suppose that the 25 (!) Lucky Rangers that I found over the course of the game may have had something to do with no one being eager to attack me. Victory through Archaeology!

I finally closed it off with a Technology win after I had emptied the tech tree. I was clearly positioned to do an Influence win also, but with Rare everything, it was going to take a looong time.

drrider
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I suppose that the 25 (!) Lucky Rangers that I found over the course of the game may have had something to do with no one being eager to attack me. Victory through Archaeology!



I almost always choose the Luck bonus, and I often play Universalists for the extra 25% Luck. But imagine this: I've never found a lucky ranger. NEVER. I've played many DL and DA games. What the heck?


Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was clearly positioned to do an Influence win also, but with Rare everything, it was going to take a looong time.


I have won an influence victory on a large map once. It took what seemed like a million constructors or more to do it. It just became boring. I would just put influence basestations beside the other planets and keep feeding them with constructors to install all the modules untill they flipped. I found that there was little resistance from the civs. I first built a strong army, so no civ would want war with me.

So now, I use millitary tactics instead. It's much more satisfying to blast them to bits.

Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've never found a lucky ranger.


It might be that one of the other races is always slightly luckier than you? Still, that does seem odd, I agree.

I had a game a few days ago where I found about ten different Lucky Rangers; a new one was found every ten turns or so. Something fishy was going on. I looked in my driveway but, alas, no Lucky Ferrari.

Lucky Rangers are not fantastic ships, sadly. Much like the default ships, they're rather poorly equipped. That said, I never say no to a free huge hull.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have won an influence victory on a large map once. It took what seemed like a million constructors or more to do it. It just became boring. I would just put influence basestations beside the other planets and keep feeding them with constructors to install all the modules untill they flipped.


Do note that an influence win doesn't require you to flip a single planet, just to cover the majority of the galaxy in your influence. You could have a 1.01 influence ratio on every enemy planet, and that would be enough.