Minor Races too powerful?

In my test games only once did a minor get any decent power.It was the non-aligned worlds faction.I thought it was a pretty cool twist.

Ha - this reminds of a game of GalCiv I I played. The Carinoids came on early in the game but had 11 (!) star systems. Towards the end of the game - when it came down to me, the Dreign (or whatever) and the Torians, the Carinoids were the second most powerful government (after me) in the game! They had nearly 400 billion people too and a massive fleet. Kind of crazy. I worked a deal with the Dreign (or whatever) so we'd both attack. They dealt with their fleet and I took most of their worlds. Pretty fun, but a little annoying that a MINOR race came to that much power.

that sounds great to me.. i mean.. if minor races were taking over every game it would be one thing.. but that bit of randomness will add some replayability to the game.

I have started three seprate games with the new 4D version and in all three games one or more minor races showed up (and by showed up I mean with 3+ colony ships) and then proceeded to swarm. I am not sure what their production profiles look like but mine at the start of a game is 52 weeks for a colony ship yet my exploring survey ship constantly is bumping into minor race colony ships. In the first game I started by the time I had seven to eight colonies the two minor races I had bumped into had not only boxed me in but each had over twenty colonies. I don't know if that was a bug in the reporting screen in the game or not though but to have that many colonies so quickly, for me, was a game killer.

Sounds like you need to increase your military production, Soland. 52 weeks is a long long time to build a colony ship.

What are your sliders set at? What are your production planets 'focused' on? Also, dont be afraid to purchase ships outright in the beginning of the game in order to get that intial boost....

I agree the minor races are very challenging and maybe a bit overpowered, but they definitely add fun to the game. Some of those are just too funny (evil chipmunks?!). But I like the way they are right now.

They sure don't leave much as a margin of error now.,..

My only complaints about minor races are these:

1) In my current game, these were SO MANY in the early game that they took up many of the nice planets
2) When a new minor race comes in mid-game, then start with all the tech that you have. This a total bullsh*t! If I worked hard to get a tech advantage, it is dumb for a minor race to just "appear" with all of my tech and then start trading it to everyone. They should only start with techs that several other civs in the game also possess.

I concur with the initial statements. I think there should be additional user controls on the minor races. It seems that there are less relation based options with the minor races. Most notably, I do not see any espionage or destabization options. This seems exceedingly unfair since they have become powerful forces in the galaxy.
I enjoy having minor races, but I do not enjoy feeling like I am in the midst of a competition with as many as 18 or so civs due to the presence of minor races.

Perhaps I just misunderstand them and their role. To me, I imagine them as trade people that have very little interest in expansion. Fleets are almost entirely defensive. Expansion is rare. That is my idea and opinion.

some tips for colony ship build times, rush techs like space milatarization and space warfare, planetary improvements all give bonus to production. Also at onset of game I outright buy a factory the first turn. Don't forget to up your spending to 100% and raise taxes.. (48-49% ) Can also adjust your spending rate to favor military over social and research. And last but not least use a cheaper build(cargo hull, colony mod, hyperdrive engine) to colonize planets already in your basic range. The regular old colony ship can go outside since it has life support. All this will optimize you for getting out colony ships. Should be seeing times like 4 to 7 weeks, not 52.

Even though I do that like Popup Target taught me, I had my own game of 4D and was amazed that minor races do push out colony ships seemingly faster than major races.


One last thought, the big equalizer is culture or influence. Eventually they will fall to a major civ based on influence if they're not outrifht conquered.

I like the challenge of stronger minor races, but there has to be better balance, too. In the 4D game I am playing now, one minor race is mining a morale resouce -- they couldn't do this in GC1, If they are allowed to do this in GC2, then we should be able to trade and/or buy their ships and starbases -- this seems still to be prevented since their ships and starbases do not show up on the diplomacy screen as a trade option.

Just to learn the game, I set the major races to "beginner" level. However, the minors seem to be at "normal" level. Is there a way to toggle the minor race starting conditions?

Can you influence minor races planets.I can't seem to culture flip them.

When a new minor race comes in mid-game, then start with all the tech that you have. T

Actually it looks like they come in with the tech that all races have researched.

I have to agree in part with Ttraider, minor races should be minor races after all, having a few colonies and a defensive fleet for the most part. However, there could be 1 or 2 minor races per game that would want to be with the major races and expand. I guess some user control could really be the way to go on that.

Just played a game where all planets got a +10PC boost... it was a mad rush for every world, with the minor races just swarming everything, being stronger than all the major races. To have minor races as trade partners and allies would fit nicely i'd say.

Agree with ProudCanadian's comments re minor race techs. They're called a minor race for a reason... I suspect however that the dev team is aware of the problems. I can't bring myself to assume the minor races in their current state will be the final implementation

However I have some different feedback to what's already been given.

I find the distributed nature of minor race colonies to be a bit odd. The distribution represents a technological superiority which contradicts the "minorness" of a minor race. Should individual minor races begin in one location, with the group dispersed around the galaxy? Much like the major races would start. Seems more logical.

Re competing with minor races for planets. That idea doesn't sit well with me. I would be happy to see the occasional colony ship attempt to get a nearby planet but anything more denotes a serious threat to my civs goals of galactic dominion - a threat that by all rights should come from a major race.

Both points lead me to conclude...

I see major races as competing for space and resources on a galactic level, from one end of the map to the other. Minor races should be competing for the same things, only restricted to a localised area with a defined limit placed on how far they can expand (this is an abstraction of their minorness). Once they run out of space within their defined limit they should shift to a technology gathering and or trading and or war footing.

That's probably not the plan though. Is there a point at which a minor race can shift over to a major race? If minor races can expand unchecked then theoretically they could attain stats comparable if not better than major races. At this point their nature ceases to be minor...

Oh btw - I haven't played GalCiv1 so I don't know anything about minor races other than what I've seen in GalCiv2 and what's been posted here so I apologise if I'm covering old ground or not making sense.

Then what you are saying is that minor races should appear in star systems already oocupied by major races ? Just later in the game ehe nthey throw off the slavery/oppressinnn thing ?

ummm ... ummm ... huh? I need to research universal translators. brb.

Just what makes a minor race a minor race? Either an inability to expand as fast as a major race, or an inability to keep up with military, social, or research production. Or maybe because either they didn't get the blueprints to the hyperdrive. Or even possibly that they're not viewed as a major race by anyone else, so they have no influence, just the ability to resist other's influence. With that, I see several possible ways to handle this:

1) Have a racial limit that for the major races is effectively infinite that states that the government for race X isn't developed enough to manage more than X planets. Maybe have a line of techs that can't be traded that increases X, so that a minor can work on becoming a major. This would hopefully cause minors to be more careful where they place their colonies, since they're limited to how many that they can have.
2) Same idea, but where planets can't be farther than Y away from the home planet. This would mean that a minor could pack all the planets within a 1.0 or 2.0 range from the homeworld at the start, and they could research to expand that from there.
3) Rather than trying to restrict where the colonies can be, or how many, limit the range of ships to distance from homeworld only. Or maybe distance from homeworld or colony with population of at least X. Again, allow minor-only techs to reduce X.
4) Reduce the racial abilities points available to the race. I dislike this idea, I don't want them to be pushovers, just want them to feel minor.
5) Don't grant them influence. Not sure if this would make them feel minor. It sure wouldn't when they're pouring a stream of colony ships through my space.

Of these, i think I like option two the best.

In GC1, originally, minor races were restricted to their starting sector. This was too limiting, so it was lifted. I'm not sure how the balance was maintained there, but while you'd occasionally get a fairly large minor, most of the times, they'd span 2-4 sectors.

I had one game last night where right away, I had 3 colony ships streaking through my territory, and another one every 4 turns or so. I finally explored that direction and jumped on the PQ 18 planet in the minor's system that it had been overlooking, apparently because it was too busy trying to find planets in my space.

I have ALWAYS thought that if a minor race surpasses a mjor race, then the minor race would bump out the major, and change into a major. The surpassed major would then become a minor race. In short, the Top Ten races would major, with all the implications, like culture, and the rest would be minor. Including you. Yes, under this system, you might be bumped down to minor level.

The effects of that? First, you would lose your place in the UP. Second, you would lose several diplo options. Third, your influence would dissapper.(over time maybe) Fourth, you would rechive the colonization limits of other minors.(but not your existing planets. What's left of them.

Any additions people?

Errrr yeah. The system you propose appears to require a radical change to the gameplay engine. Or something like that.

I'm annoyed that in the late game, new minor races are appearing faster than I can euthanize the existing ones. It's just insane! All kinds of planets are becoming instantly PQ 15, and I immediately gobble them up by killing the new inhabitants.

What really gets my goat is how the Alexians can be soo ultimately powerful in midgame when I'm the tech leader and ownage of 20+ star systems or ~30 colonies and they have 2 or 3... Is the GNN report whacked or what ?
Not just me, the 'minors' were more powerful than all us major races... I find this disturbing.


Regards to Dark Yor = ROFLMAO, love the name makes me giggle everytime.

Also the Venge gets started as some galactic terrorist group which is a new angle, pretty cool i guess. Last game they were in it. I did view I guess what was a random event ?? They turned a PQ 15, Drengin planet into PQ5 with some bio weapon? Drengin responded by declaring war (if not already) and wiping them out shortly.

Is the GNN report whacked or what ?

The GNN "The X Most Powerful Races" report has been reversed (top is weakest, bottom is leader) since the first Beta. You JUST noticed?!?

wait a minute so all those times i thought i was number one i was really in last place?

maybe i should tone down the difficulty a little bit...

It seems to me that the big distinction between Major and Minor races in GC2 is that you can PLAY as Major races but not as Minors. I still suggest a number of Minor Race options that can be set to determine just how aggressive and capable the Minors are -- from fodder to Major-save-the-playability. But then, I like variety in my galaxies and prefer everyone to have a fighting chance. I always hated the fodder Minors...