Giving civs more character- Different architecture for each civ

from GalCiv2 Forums
I'd like to see different architecture for each civ, so basicly the same buildings look different depending on the race that inhabits the world. I don't imagine this would be too difficult to implement, as it's only the appearance of the buildings we're talking about here, not really their function or anything and it would do a lot to give each race more character. Each colony building has a particular appearance which should be distinctive enough to be immediatly recognised and would give each race some more character. Each of the major races should have a distinctive colony appearance at least, and the minor races too if it can be managed, though this isn't essential. Buildings should always mantain the architecture of those that built them, so older alien buildings can potentially be seen on the same planet alongside newer human buildings. Galactic movements (including the I Leugue) should build buildings of the architecture of the first race to colonise the planet so such planets keep their distinctive racial architectural style. The kind of buildings I'd imagine each alien race would have I submit below.

Altarians- Smooth domed buildings, predominately light blue in color, with plenty of arcane symbols down the walls.

Torians- A combination of smooth curves and sharp spires and edges, predominately emerald green.

Arceans- Heavy and bulky looking building, predominately stone-brown and with few aesthetic touches.

Drath- Buildings usually archaic and fortress like with flat rooves, battlements and sometimes towers.

Korx- Largely charmless architecture, with plenty of poorly thought and clashing aesthetic effects.

Drengin- Rusty looking hexagonal structures, reflecting the Drengins real lack of interest in either appearance or design of civilian structures, militery structures should be pristine, manacing looking and painted in black, red and orange colours.

Yor- Industrial looking steel structures, with plenty of purple lights and touches. Should look in-organic and artificial.

Thalan- Huge earthen mounds of varying size (similer to termite mounds). Tiny lights should be visable on the flanks of the mounds to give them a lived in appearance.

Iconions- Pyramidical and studded with arcane symbols down the sides. The buildings should look alien, exotic and arcane.
colonies
22,989 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

While I agree with the idea of different "initial colony" buildings, I'm afraid all that extra concept would cause a mass exodus of our artists.  With about 80 improvments to design, and 9 races to design for, you're talking about 720 extra buildings to design.  Even if we had 3 artists, working 7 days per week, pumping out 2 per day, it'd still take 4 months to complete!

Plus there's the issue of making them all look different, yet similar eough so that they're recognizable as an "Omega Ship Yard" or "Fusion Power Plant" by just a 64x64 image.   Needless to say, we'd have a VERY cranky art staff on our hands 

Don't get me wrong, in a perfect world this would be an AWESOME feature to include, but I'll take similar buildings and sane artists any day 

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How about a race colour colour. - or primary, secondary and tertiary race colours?
ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Even if we had 3 artists, working 7 days per week, pumping out 2 per day, it'd still take 4 months to complete!


*Ahem* DOH! Can't argue with that one, no matter how much I'd love to. But here's a thought, we know GC2 will be heavily moddable, will it be possible (and relatively straight forward) for modders to create their own building packs?

How about a race colour colour. - or primary, secondary and tertiary race colours?


I like this one, should be alot faster than designing architecture yet would still add a little more history to a campaign as worlds change hands. Tell us BoogieBac, is the art department crying into his sketchbook yet?
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The race color highlights and unique Initial Colony building would be a nice addition.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
We're only talking about static, unmoving sprites here and you only need one sprite per building anyhows. It'd be far easier than even the ship sprites of gal Civ I to implement as in this you only need one picture per building and it's not going to move, fight or anything like that in the same way as ships. For the most part you could use the ships of galactic civ I as a base for the architecture of most races. Functional apparatus should be kept rather similar in most cases, so two buildings of the same type yet of different races should, while architectularly different, be instantly recognisable by the functional similarities that they have in common with one another. So there will be great similarities in appearance between the stadiums and starports of all races for instance as they all function the same way. The point is that there's no point in allowing all races to be playable without giving those races some character. Having the same identical buildings for all races is bland and boring and doesn't give them much character or individuality from one another. Designing them shouldn't be that hard beacause all that needs to be done, is determine the main architectural style for each civ and apply them to the fuctional purpose of the building, allowing both the need for recognisabability as distinction..

They can make ship sprites for Galciv I seperate for all races, why can't they make seperate building sprites? They managed to keep the ships recognisable while mantaining a distinctive character, why's this any different. Buildings should be built around their functions, that is that the generic functions of the building are done first and then the racial architectural touches are added later. I could probably even design buildings for each race myself.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I could probably even design buildings for each race myself.


You should! Maybe you should just push for Stardock to make "race unique" building icons be a mod-able thing. That way they don't have to spend time and effort on making the graphics, but you (or other modders) can go nuts.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh dear, I've just given Stardock an excuse to do the minimum work possible, okay everyone, we aim to make the game as bland and uninteresting as possible, but highly moddable so it won't matter.

Seriously though, I can't see how from the point of veiw of a game company it's that difficult given all the rest of what the must have to do to make computer games.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well. its simply using resources which could be used on other area's of the game. areas which are probably more important...........

Yes. it would probably be a nice feature...... but given the choice of having that and something which has more impact on the game.......... then I'd have to choose the latter every time. but then again that might just be me...
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

GoblinCookie: You have to admit that dedicating almost four THOUSAND man-hours to implement a polish item is a bit much.   I meen, in that time we could put an artist and coder on making it so you actually pilot your ships in combat "Wng Commander" style (something we would never do, but you can see the amount of time that we'd be sacrificing to implement a very VERY insubstantial posish item.

In GalCiv1 it wasn't a problem making all the ships since 1.) they were a necessary part of the game and 2.) there were only 6 races and 25 ship types (only 150 items to design).  Now, if there were only 20 improvements you could build, that'd be another story...but at that point we're taking away from the fun of the game (getting to constantly unlock new and better buildings) and putting that time towards a feature that only improves the asthetics of the game, not the gameplay.

I guess that's what the ultimate balance of game design is...taking the time provided and putting enough time into Game Mechanics so it is fun to play, but also put in enough polish so that the game is nice to look at.

And is 4000 man hours to make custom buildings per race worth sacrificing actual game play features that will make the game more fun?  Personally, I say no...but that's just my opinion 

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Sorry, I forgot to answer some questions in my rant 

>>How about a race colour colour. - or primary, secondary and tertiary race colours?
We may be able to tint the images, but since they're PNG's there's not much colorizing that we can do.  Something to consider, though.

Also, we're planning on using the race color to rolorize the main interface, so you'll get some change there as well when playing a custom race.

>>But here's a thought, we know GC2 will be heavily moddable, will it be possible (and relatively straight forward) for modders to create their own building packs?

This may be possible, but as with anything we'd be taking resources from other things to implement the proper system for this to work.  If everything goes smoothly we could be able to slip this in, but the coding TO-DO list is already jam packed

>>Tell us BoogieBac, is the art department crying into his sketchbook yet?

Hehe..no, not yet...we're too busy with other things to worry about this.  Major game features always take precidence over polish items, and let me say there're ALOT of major features that still need to get in.

Again, I definatly agree that a custom "Initial Colony" image would be cool, but honestly, as an artist, it'd be completly unrealistic for us to try and fit this into our schedule and expect to make the release date.

CariElf knows the quote better, but someone once said that "The Key to Finishing a Game is knowning when to Stop."

There's ALWAYS more that you want to put it, but at the end of the day you ARE making a product that's supposed to make money.  You can spend 10 years on "Best Game Ever 5", but if the $$$ you make is less than the $$$ you spend, you're still packing up shop 

Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Actually, the quote I always use is "You never finish a game; you just quit working on it."    That's from Game Design: Secrets of the Sages.

Scott is right, though, you have to know when to stop.  Would you really want us to put that much time and effort (and therefore money) into something that you would say "hey, that's really cool!" the first time that you saw it and took for granted thereafter?  Particularly when the time and resources could be better spent elsewhere?

I don't know if it will be possible to make a mod so that different races use different pictures on their planets. It isn't right now, they all use the same definitions with the same filename in them.

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Oh dear, I've just given Stardock an excuse to do the minimum work possible, okay everyone, we aim to make the game as bland and uninteresting as possible, but highly moddable so it won't matter.

Seriously though, I can't see how from the point of veiw of a game company it's that difficult given all the rest of what the must have to do to make computer games.

This is a basic math issue.  I think you should really think of what you're sayng. 4,000 man hours (which I think is a severe underestimation) would add an additional $250,000 to the budget.  And for what?  A polish point that no one but you has ever asked for and, until you brought it up, is something none of us had ever thought of.

We already have unique ships, which was non-trivial.  You would have to ask, which major feature should be removed to have that?  The entire ship design feature cost less than $250k to implement (to put it in perspective).

 

 

Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think it may be worth adding the ability to mod this at some point, but I agree that it's not worth doing it yourselves. Are you still planning to have a year of free support, or are you going to go straight into other projects/expansions? If you do have the year of support, maybe you can add that ability after release.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Excellent ideas. I was reading a review on Gamespy.com about Civilization IV and a new feature they are introducing that I think would help give Gal Civ more flavor and help civilizations feel more unique and more our own:

"Speaking of powerful folks, the heads of state are not the only important individuals in the game. Civilization IV introduces "great people," individuals who can make a huge impact on your civ. Certain conditions might trigger off the appearance of a great scientist, a great engineer, a great merchant, a great holy man, or a great artist (who looks like Elvis, natch). Each has his or her own special abilities. You can have them hang out in a city to bestow long-term benefits. Or, you can use them up: a great engineer can be used, for instance, to instantly finish a city building project, while a scientist can instantly give you a new technology. Or, two great people can be combined to kick off a golden age for your nation. These little guys will add a lot of strategy."

I like the idea of important individuals in Gal Civ - like a gifted Altarian scientist, or a bold captain, a Drengin turncoat, etc. Players could then assign them to planets to get bonuses or use them to complete planetary projects. Maybe they could implement something like this as part of the random events?

Just a thought.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Only one picture is required for each improvement folks and Galciv I ships had to have several static frames per ship, the building are a lot simpler, only one picture required (you don't even need to have a unique picture for the lower window). But there are admittadly more buildings than ships. I say that each civ has it's own seperate but identical files for building seperate from one another, this would make it very easy to MOD. Maybe a few unique buildings ie Farms, Factories, Initial colony and labs should be unique for each race (say it's beacause they come from an era before the races were in contact and standadised their buildings). This would be five unique buildings per race. Then the rest of the buildings can slowly be designed and added to the game by Modders, with the seperate folder for each race design making this easier. A good compromise solution.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Goblin, I think the point you are missing is that someone has to sit down and design each building for each race and then do the artwork. It simply takes more time than stardock can afford to put into it. Frogboy says it would cost as much as the entire custom ship design feature, and its far less important.

I do wonder about giving each race its own building files so they could be later modded, instead of all races refering to the same file. Of course each of these files would actually be identical to start with. I don't really know the practicality of it, my coding knowledge is zero.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
I definitly seems to me that even being able to mod in unique improvments would be a great adition to the game. Spliting up the data files would take a hour of copy-and-pasting, plus another hour of coding to use the seperate files. Tops. Probably less.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
What must be understood and remembered is GalCiv is on the galactic scale, different looking structures is not important nor nessecary for what would be in this game theme, though ground battles is a large and potential part of a space strategy.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Not to rankle anyone further, but honestly how often are we actually going to be *looking* at our improvements during the average game? After all, this isn't like your standard RTS where your buildings are sitting on the sunny meadow for all to see -- you actually have to pull up a star system, then a planet, and then the corresponding tile before you'll even get a glimpse (so I'm led to believe, anyway) outside of the initial build que. And just think how *many* of these things you'll be building -- surely the novelty would wear off after you've seen your thirtieth rusty hexagonal (which I like, BTW) Drengin Entertainment Network. (Wonder if they'll show The Running Human, brought to you by Cadre Cola? ) Granted, I think full customization of all structures, ships, interface skins, and even diplomatic avatars would be beyond exhilirating (I'm a huge proponent of "species identity" in these games,) but I try to be, above all, pragmatic when it comes to my games -- I'd rather it play like a dream than look like one, if I'm forced to choose, and from what I hear from BoogieBac, CariElf, and FrogBoy, they're thinking along those lines too. That being said, what little I've seen so far looks pretty dreamy, so I have little to complain about in that department. (And an aside to BoogieBac, I still can't wait to see those diplomatic animations!)

Ultimately, while I would love to see the implementation of "polish" in the vein of what GoblinCookie has suggested (and some of my own suggestions, for that matter,) I'm willing to sacrifice the eye candy if the process of implementing it a.) takes time and funding from other departments (e.g. military & diplomatic AI development,) or b.) pushes the ultimate release date out too far from its projected debut, as that always leads to problems and unrealistically heightened expectations. (Remember that MOO3 came out a full month and a half *after* Prima released the *worthless and outdated* strategy guide for the game! That's just ridiculous.)

No doubt the Stardock crew know what a name they've made for themselves with GC, and no doubt they know better than us how big a task it is to follow that act. I'm confident that what can be done within time and budget constraints will be done, and what can't could always be added later as bonus features, or even as mods from community sources. And if "Never finished, merely stopped" is the motto -- perhaps "on hiatus" would be better phraseology than "stopped," as that always leaves room for hope!
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Oh guys , I surely see the economiocal point but let's take old Master of Magic - dam lot of unit types and each one had own picture , that was great.
Let's only hope that GalCiv2 will generate enough money so StarDock will be able to do it in GalCiv3 or expansion pack
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
I devopled a News Network for my Civ:The United Lowan Network (note the word UNITED!) They show the best in lowan Entertainment and show documentaries on The uglebs and note how our best freind (either the dregins or the atlantarins who are the strongest powers most of the time Depending on my morality..)IS AWESOME!!!! and this friday we will show the man who cried "What the hell is the government doing?,well i don't really care but you know....IT has problems"-it was never displayed in privatly owned (Or government controled pretending to be privateized) becasue of the long ass title...
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
I'd say that the Yor eating food is more of an issue than the architecture.
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
They show the best in lowan Entertainment and show documentaries on The uglebs



I swear to god this guy is stalking me now.
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
I'd say that the Yor eating food is more of an issue than the architecture.


On toast no less!
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
The Yor are desinged to use bio-matter as fuel. The convert theirvictems into bio-deisel first. Then they spread it on Silicon wafers as food. But the phrase "We will liqueify your speises to spread on our toast" sound more daunting and understandable.