Sorry to sound negative in my post. I would really like to see it work and work 'fair'
Someone is always running around complaining about unfairness.



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So, what statistics denote the top "20" or so. Subscriber downloads or all downloads.
It's a noble and generous idea and I hope the details will work out.

I still remain skeptical however.

Phoon.... subscriber downloads only.

Good answer.. thanks..

PS .. Koasati.. you have mail

But that's not what we're talking about here. If subscribers are paying us X thousands of dollars per month to support the site, it might be a good thing to let the top 20 or so skinners get a little piece of that.

Well then Stardock might as well cut regular checks every 2 weeks for Adni18, Apoc, Tiggz, Jairo, Pixtudio, TSF and the "usual" suspects in the top authors as they are ALWAYS up there.
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If so,they earned it.

Those pesky top authors... always uploading stuff that we just love to download....

I think it's a great idea.

My only problem, personaly, regarding earning money from my skins, would be that I would feel obligated to offer "customer support".  Right now, I skin for fun, and although I try to make it work for most people, I won't go crazy with it. If I can't figure out the problem right away, I drop it. Use it if it works, and don't use it if it doesn't.
I would really hate to feel like I *had* to do anything at all. I do this for fun, and from the moment anything becomes an obligation it's not fun anymore.  That's why if I was to be one of the top 20 (extremely unlikely), I would turn down the money.
But that's just me, I've got nothing against anybody else who make money from their skins if anything I feel a little sorry for them.

Yep, ...this is a great idea.

Those top authors *earned* their positions in the top authors section. Those that are not there yet ~should strive to get there, by upping the quality of their work.

...get in the top 20, and you get access to the bonuses. Simple really.

Great inspirational/motivational carrot dangling! Bring it on I say!

I'd love to see you guys getting paid for your stuff. I don't skin, but I do know the time and effort it takes to make a good windowblind, wmp or winamp skin, having pulled some apart to see the inner workings.

There's some very talented people who definitely should be getting a slice of the pie, ...and Brad should be commended for offering it. Many businessmen would not have, and just kept the dollars. Nice gesture imho.

I can easily see a couple people combining efforts and uploading work under a different (group) name. Take The Skins Factory for example. They are not 1 single person. Skinplant.....even though the authors upload work under their own names I can easily see them combining efforts and splitting their cut of the money amongst themselves.
I am an administrator at skinartistry. The kind people there as individuals probably have no chance at getting into the top 20 authors but if we were to combine our efforts maybe we could generate some funding for the site. Will this cause problems betweeen different groups? I don't know but thats the way I see things going.

I would have to agree with WrecklessEric about the gesture being an honorable one. Hats off to Frogboy and company for trying to establish a way for people to make some money. even though there will be some bumps in the road, credit is due for giving it a try.

This 'paying for skins' question is a thorny one. There will be detractors who will complain about paying for anything - despite the fact that they have a choice of whether or not to download, and hundreds of free skins to choose from.

Of course there will be lots of things to sort out. Should all subscribers be allowed to offer skins for sale (I think that as has been mentioned, it may mean that only a few skinners will ever get to sell)? will skins be adjudicated before being allowed to be sold? how will they be priced - per skin or in a pack? would there be a commission for Wincusto, and if so how much? would there have to be a minimum specification for the skin or icon set? ... I expect that there are lots more questions like that.

But it's another good idea Brad.
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(not sure where all my semi-colons went in that last post! Sorry.)

#25 by Frogboy - 10/3/2004 8:46:41 PM I think many of us are (myself included).I am all over the concept of not awarding any sort of merit medals to people who become popular calling their skin or theme or wallpaper "Something XP" or "Aero Thing".But that's not what we're talking about here. If subscribers are paying us X thousands of dollars per month to support the site, it might be a good thing to let the top 20 or so skinners get a little piece of that. First off I think it would encourage more GOOD skins. I think it might encourage other people to make skins. And also, it might encourage more people to subscribe to teh site because they would know they are supporting the skinners too.

Agreed but I am with Patric Fontaine. Here we skin for fun, not for money.

But if this Policy is to be implemented then the award money should not be for just top 20's. The awards can be given on catagory bases like Oscars are given. They can be categorize into:

. Top 3 Artists
. Best Emerging (Novice) Artist
. Most Downloaded (On per month bases and average per day)
. Top 3 Contributers to WC
and many more to include in.

In this way the treat of "Monoply" can be vanished

(Sorry for my poor english)

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I dont skin, but appreciate the hard work that goes into them....quoting Frogboy..The top 20 skinners would get a percentage of the quarterly revenue from WinCustomize subscriptions if they themselves are subscribers OR have Journeyman access or higher....this would work in part....I love the idea that my subscription * which I will have soon *...will pay for the hardwork the skinners do...if it wasnt for those skinners wincustomize wouldnt make any money....but a *variation* on who gets paid should be allowed...every so often we see a *new skinner* without journeyman status make an astounding skin..ie farkusmarkus,...the number of downloads in a given time would show the quality of that work and deserves to be rewarded the same as the *top 20 journeymen*, irregardless of subscription status..And subscriptions as rewards too.. I would feel that I am getting my real moneys worth and would keep resubrscribing based on that...Now many skinners in this thread..37 by essorant - 10/4/2004 8:59:08 AM
This 'paying for skins' question is a thorny one. There will be detractors who will complain about paying for anything - despite the fact that they have a choice of whether or not to download, and hundreds of free skins to choose from.

Of course there will be lots of things to sort out. Should all subscribers be allowed to offer skins for sale (I think that as has been mentioned, it may mean that only a few skinners will ever get to sell)? will skins be adjudicated before being allowed to be sold? how will they be priced - per skin or in a pack? would there be a commission for Wincusto, and if so how much? would there have to be a minimum specification for the skin or icon set? ... I expect that there are lots more questions like tha...I am copying this essorant bc at no point in Frogboys propasal did he mention individual sales..being involved...Please clarify what I understood Frogboys proposal is.....simply...I pay for my subscription..only..that money is then contributed by percentage to the top skinners....no extra money coming from me....As long as I pay the same amount for that subscription and no other cost incurred I think the idea is an excellent one

~Its My Secret~

We were thinking of allowing authors to click a checkbox to make a given submission only available to subscribers.

great idea, that would definitely be a worthy idea. One of the things I was dissapointed about was that I only got two skins that were subscriber only skins. I expected to find a whole bunch of skins in the library that were previously unaccessible when I bought my subscription.

I think this is a good idea since it focuses on an overall benefit for the site as well as for the artists and users.
Also keep in mind that not all of the top 20 authors have Journeyman level and that level is not required to benefit from the revenues. All that’s required is a paid subscription and fair quality uploads.
As far as detractors complaining for paying for something, the only thing they are paying for is a subscription to support the site and to have limitless downloads. Stardock will be the one taking a percentage of 'THEIR' revenues and awarding it to the authors in a fairly distributed way, so authors shouldn’t feel as if they have to comply or offer any kind of support or updates of their work.
On the issue of authors selling their work, it will not be done thru this idea. As far as I know (and if I understood correctly) the selling of premium skins will be a part of WC2K5 and it’s a feature offered only to certain authors (Masters and such)
Top authors as they stand right now, are people that have continuously contributed to the site and (obviously) are putting out work that people find very appealing otherwise they wouldn’t be on that list. In the past 2 yrs I've seen many artists come and go, a lot of them give up because they don’t get downloads, or get negative comments or simply get bored of skinning. That is why this idea is good, because it will encourage and give an incentive to the artists to strive for better quality work.
Regardless of the pros and cons, I think the idea is good enough to give it a try. Heck....it's so crazy it might just work

Heck....it's so crazy it might just work

I think thats an excellent Idea. It is high time that the talented skinners on this site get some sort of reward for their effort, and I would feel really good knowing that part of my subscription is used to support the artists here.

I would like to see a system put in place, which gives younger and less known artist a chance to break into the circle of the established authors such as Pixtudio and TSF, who after all are fully blown professionals and have been in the business for years. Something along the lines what Black Xero mentioned earlier sounds reasonable.

I am all for this idea. The top 20 skinners, subscribers, journeymen...whatever, they get to upload "premium" content...for which they get a cut of the subscriptions based on the # of subscriber downloads. This in turn...allows all subscribers free reign on the "premium" content...but all non-subscribers can only look and drool.

It's the absolute perfect incentive for both parties...skinners want $ and subscribers want better skins! All those non-subscribers now have a HUGE reason to subscribe. Genius!

Please read this carefully:

This is no a premium skin discussion.

It's basically a discussion of whether to share a percentage of the money we receive via WC subscriptions iwth the top 20 skinners.

I think we'll probably have to shelve this idea given that I can't seem to communicate this concept in a thread amongst regulars. So forget the idea.