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TGT Soft sues Stardock (just in time for the holidays :( )

TGT Soft sues Stardock (just in time for the holidays :( )

Well it looks like the folks at TGT Soft are in the holiday spirit (not!).  On Wednesday Stardock received a lawsuit from TGT Soft that was filed in .

The lawsuit essentially asks for a declaration that TGT Soft can use Stardock’s IconPackager theme format without liability. 

This incident began last month with the first beta of Style XP 2.0 which had a button labeled “Add an Icon Pack” which when pressed opened a dialog in which they could load a .iptheme or .ip file (IconPackager files). We were fairly annoyed that 1) They would try to compete with IconPackager/Object Desktop by using IconPackager files (remember, they sell this thing), 2) That they didn’t even give us credit for our icon packaging format but instead referred to them as “icon packs” as if .ipthemes were some generic term created by the ASCII group or something and 3) They didn’t even create icon packages but rather planned to just exploit the popularity of IconPackager which we’ve worked hard and long on for many years to make popular.

We informed them that this was unacceptable and we would defend our rights either technically or legally if necessary. If they want to compete with Object Desktop or IconPackager they would need to come up with their own format that they have to support and promote.  If they want to put out an icon changing program, that’s fine. But to copy our format and use it so that they can undercut the price of our software is unacceptable and we believe, illegal. 

In subsequent correspondence, we even offered to license them the use of our format for a modest royalty (remember, this isn’t a freeware program we’re talking about, they’re selling Style XP for $20 a pop). Their response was to reject that and file a lawsuit that seems to be designed to force us to let them use/convert our IconPackager theme format without any compensation. 

Apparently they would have it where we would be the ones to provide the software to create and support icon packages (which is where most of the development/marketing costs have come from) and they would just reap the benefits financially. Note that Style XP 2.0 currently does not seem to have the ability to actually create icon packages/sets. Only apply them.

They have subsequently come up with their own format (.iconset) but since they can’t actually create .iconset files from their program, they rely on a new program they’ve made, IconTranslate, which seems to exist primarily to convert IconPackager themes to their “.IconSet” format. And once installed turns on a feature in Style XP to read IconPackager themes directly from within their program.

Picture this scenario then: Someone buys Style XP instead of IconPackager or Object Desktop costing us income. Then their customers would come to WinCustomize.com to download icon packages to use with their program, costing us more money since we pay for the bandwidth.  We pay the costs, they make the money, and to top it off, they’re suing us, costing us legal expenses.

To us, this situation is akin to someone asking a skinner to let them port their skin to a different platform and if the skinner says no then turning around and suing them to try to force the skinner to let them port their skin. Stardock fully intends to defend its intellectual property rights.  The implications if TGT Soft were to win are far reaching not just to Stardock but intellectual property holders everywhere including skin and theme authors.

We generally feel that people who create stuff should have a say over how that stuff is used. Stardock worked long and hard to make IconPackager a success. Its popularity is not due to marketing but due to the hard work over a long period of time (ex: making it possible to create and apply icons on Windows 95, Windows 95 + IE4, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP).  Doing that was not easy as early IconPackager users can attest to. It was very hard to make IconPackager work reliably on the many different versions of Windows, different interactions with the OS and Internet Explorer, etc. But this was part of the effort necessary to make IconPackager successful and why it’s the most popular, by far, icon packaging technology available.  On top of that, Stardock has paid many thousands of dollars over the years to create icon packages to help promote our program and format (such as the recently released Christmas Time IconPackager theme).

 

For someone to simply come along and try to cash in on our hard work without any compensation strikes us as both morally and legally wrong.  But to actually sue us (and they are also suing me personally, not just Stardock and I can say, on a personal note, getting a lawsuit that targets me personally a week before Christmas is pretty crummy) is just incredible.

Like I said, we don’t have a problem with them changing icons or making icon sets. What features they add to their program are their business. But to try to profit from our hard work over many years is wrong and to file a lawsuit against us (and me personally) to try to force us to let them use our intellectual property goes beyond words.

So that’s where we’re at.  We will defend our rights because the implications it would have on all our software as well as on the community. If people who create things don’t get to have a say on how it’s used, it would likely have a chilling effect on our community – whether you’re a skin author, an icon artist, a theme author, or a software developer.

 

IconPackager’s page is: https://www.stardock.com/products/iconpackager/

69,062 views 281 replies
Reply #151 Top
....if the skin don't fit...you must acquit

oh wait...that was a glove wasn't it
Reply #152 Top
I've lurked on some of the sits to see what people say. It's interesting how the rejects and outcasts like ChiChiGirl, Dokt, Dusty and their ilk are happy about all this. It shows just how miserable and pathetic they are. It's pittable but illuminating. Illuminating because it makes it pretty easy to see why those guys are outcasts. So full of hate and petty nastiness.
Reply #153 Top
It is good that this controversy is public now. At some point...at some time...litigious people suffer. When, not if, TGT Soft loses and loses badly and goes out of business from the crushing legal costs, there will be some fool somewhere trying to blame it on Stardock. That is when people need to be reminded that TGT Soft was the one who started itself on this ruinous path.
Reply #154 Top
Well it will be interesting to see if the case gets thrown out of court. Anyone can file a lawsuit. Getting it into a court and litigated is another matter.
[Message Edited]
Reply #155 Top
I've lurked on some of the sits to see what people say. It's interesting how the rejects and outcasts like ChiChiGirl, Dokt, Dusty and their ilk are happy about all this. It shows just how miserable and pathetic they are. It's pittable but illuminating. Illuminating because it makes it pretty easy to see why those guys are outcasts. So full of hate and petty nastiness.


Speaking of dusty he wrote me a email. Seems he is still lurking around WC and still is upset about being exiled and still sore at jafo. Claims he hates Stardock and Frogboy.
Reply #156 Top

Kona...people who 'cross the line' will always be sore at those who are charged with drawing the 'line'.

Fact of life....and won't cause me to lose any sleep...

Reply #157 Top

I've lurked on some of the sits to see what people say. It's interesting how the rejects and outcasts like ChiChiGirl, Dokt, Dusty and their ilk are happy about all this. It shows just how miserable and pathetic they are. It's pittable but illuminating. Illuminating because it makes it pretty easy to see why those guys are outcasts. So full of hate and petty nastiness.

I have noticed this as well. I must confess, there is a certain satisfaction at being vindicated that people we have exiled here weren't exiled wrongly but rather because they seem to be anti-social to an unusual degree.

Emily: I wouldn't be surprised if what you say turns out to be true.  Stardock has been through lawsuits before. I can honestly say that Stardock has never filed a lawsuit in its 10 year history. We have always been able to work out our differences with people privately. 

I truly believed that TGT Soft would take the ethical path (like every other icon changing program out there) and try to build up support for their own program based on the merits of their software. Like I said earlier, with the money they are going to spend on legal costs they could have worked with the community and paid for dozens of exclusive icon packages for their program (assuming they could figure out how to create icon packages as opposed to merely apply existing ones). 

I wonder if they realize what they've gotten themselves into.  We don't have a choice, we HAVE to defend our intellectual property rights. If we don't stop them here who knows what other things they'll try to do.  Our community, including Stardock, rests on the premise that the people who create skins, themes, icon packages, wallpapers, etc. have the right to control how it is used. We take quite a bit of grief from our moderation here but we do it because without it, many people wouldn't be willing to put in the kind of work and time involved to create this stuff.

The same is true with software.  Most of the expense in IconPackager has come from the technology to create the packages on many different versions of Windows and then getting icon authors to use it.  We pay for that by selling Object Desktop as well as IconPackager on its own. But if a competitor can just jump in and start using what we've created and then undercut us in price since they didn't have to do nearly as much work as we did, it discourages people from going out and putting in the work that we all benefit from collectively.

Reply #158 Top
well u can sue them for unlawful use of your program without your permission , you know gets me you dont see stardock using tgtsofts programs with stardock programs so what gives ? the lack of users who buy tgsoft products pffft i think its a jealous issue is all besides think about it u can do way may with stardock products to enhance your pc style xp pffft only changes your theme and login blah blah blah and tgtsoft what just started making updates what 6 months and they been out since 2001 lack of support least with stardock they have 100% nice & honest support thats my 2 cents peace
Reply #159 Top
Given their business practices (reverse engineering and hacking others' programs and files for profit) one wouldn't have thought this is a can of worms they would want opened. Just think what one could get from them through the discovery process and present to the court.



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Reply #161 Top
I've never expected to see something like this happen. I thought it would always be TGT Soft who were being sued.



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Reply #162 Top
Heh. You're going to have to figure out a way to charge by the icon package to beat the problem this lawsuite exposes.

Please explain exactly what you mean by this...I'm being slow today.
Reply #163 Top
there is a certain satisfaction at being vindicated that people we have exiled here weren't exiled wrongly but rather because they seem to be anti-social to an unusual degree.


You never did exile me... but you probably will now, just for expressing my own opinions on another forum.



[Message Edited]
Reply #164 Top
You never did exile me... but you probably will now, just for expressing my own opinions on another forum.


Are you dusty?
Reply #166 Top
Hang them, Hang them all I say!! >
The nerve of those incompetent idiots. The irony of this whole issue is that they are tying the rope around their own neck.
Im not a Icon designer (yet) but I would hate to see the work that I create to share with the entire skining community it's been taken and converted by another company for benefits of their own with no intentions of paying royalties to the original developers.
Brad I hope this blows over soon and that the end result is to the benefit of StarDock.
Reply #167 Top
Are you dusty?

Yep. And for the record... I never claimed that I was exiled from here or "hated stardock or froglegs-boy" although, I don't like their business practices. And I didn't appreciate the certain admins accusations in emails. That's all.



Reply #168 Top
I still hard to believe that a admin did what you are saying they did.

I might not agree with Stardocks Business practices or Frogboys opinios from time to time, but I love the products and I love WC and the people here.

I thought you were exiled.
Reply #171 Top
heh a little history on mfaccone aka dusty
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?id=202507&BID=WC&page=1#203795

https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?id=204329&BID=WC&page=1#204960

whatababy
Reply #173 Top
You know nothing China.. cause all this happened in email, not on this forum. But as usual, your nose is so brown you don't know if its your own poop coming out your butt or someone elses.
Not the issue anyway.
I just came to acknowlege something someone said... nothing more.
Bye
Reply #175 Top
did he just say poop?