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We're at the tweak/polish/play test cycle and enjoying the fruits of our labour. When stuff pops up, we address it.

What's the tech "Hatchling Mound" supposed to do? It says "Allows construction of a Hatchling Mount [sic]" but it actually doesn't give an improvement.

The point of researching down Total Majesty is to get the SCC.

Beta 1G is live.

Hatcling Mound is fixed.

Hopefully the AI will go a little slower when researching Military Starbase tech.

Saurian Cunning moved to War Profiteering.

Available from the File Archive and direct link.

Enjoy.

No idea.  I checked the data files in the most recent mod and didn't see anything amiss -- the only techs with WarProfiteeringAbility are "Invisible Hand" and "War Profiteering",  and only the Drath have those.

I had tech trading off and tech stealing off.   Not that that should even matter with those techs,  because they're untradable and unstealable.  

That should mitigate things somewhat,  we'll see how things play out.

They both had very bad starting positions.   One thing I have noticed about Large galaxies with Occasional stars is that luck plays a very important role.   It is not uncommon,  for example,  for a race to have only their home system,  with nothing else nearby that isn't closer to somebody else's homeworld.   Or sometimes there *are* one or two close systems,  but even with Abundant/Abundant planets they're both devoid of habitable planets.  In a Large galaxy with 10 races one or two of them are going to get screwed.  In the two games I've posted it's been evil races,  but that's just been dumb luck.   The Drengin for example have been getting moderately good starting positions and have done well (9 and 13 planets respectively,  where 10 is the median).

I'm thinking that a better testbed would have more *stars* and fewer habitable planets,  to avoid extremes of luck.   It is hard to compare AI when one starts in a void with just their home system and the other starts in a 3 system sector with 8 habitable planets in their two neighboring systems... 

Time to play around with map generation.

In AbilityBonuses.xml the costs for additional TradeRoutes uses still the old values:

<Ability Name="Trade Routes">
<AbilityIndex>19</AbilityIndex>
<AvailableOptions>3</AvailableOptions>
<Option0Text>Gifted Traders</Option0Text>
<Option0Bonus>1</Option0Bonus>
<Option0Cost>1</Option0Cost>
<Option1Text>Superior Traders</Option1Text>
<Option1Bonus>2</Option1Bonus>
<Option1Cost>2</Option1Cost>
<Option2Text>Master Traders</Option2Text>
<Option2Bonus>3</Option2Bonus>
<Option2Cost>3</Option2Cost>
<BonusUnits>rts</BonusUnits>
</Ability>

Oh, they do. Believe me.

Probably a bug we haven't seen before. Perhaps the AI's can techtrade/steal even when the option is off. I noticed the AI can use invasion tactics they have no business using.

Don't forget scattered stars, that helps homonogize the galaxy as well. That's what I'm using for my game.

I picked up my game from yesterday. I wasn't getting anywhere with the Terrans so I began to research beam defense. That helped, but not much because new ships showed up using plasma weapons. For a while the war went bad on both sides but it wasn't the Terrans I should have been keeping an eye on. A terror was brewing.

The Korath.

These bastards has been quietly terrorizing their own part of the galaxy. They conquered the Krynn, Arceans, Drengin and several minors. Some civs even surrendered  to them. 

Then, it was my turn and when their first fleets showed up I knew I was in a ton of trouble. A fleet, heavy fighters (not the worst they would throw at me) with +220 missiles.

Yes, they were using Psyonic Missiles. I lost two planets to spore ships before I knew what hit me. I had nothing in my arsenal to stop them so I cranked up the research to 100% and got as much missile defense as I got, eventually getting to Telepathic Defenses.

My new ships, equipped with a ton of defense went into battle.

And lost.

Logistics, Miniaturization, a military starbase, dropping spies on their worlds (didn't work, frigging Spy Center), Xalax defense ship, going for Large hulls. Nothing worked. Their fleets were ridiculously powerful and on top of that they had beam defense as well.

Frigates and Heavy fighters. That's it. I checked later. They had nearly finished researching their full weapon tree but they were still using Psyonic missiles.

Then I did something I never do. I reloaded from a quicksave and tried again. With Large hulls filled up with an insane amount of defense I managed to keep their fleets away for a while but my large ships (4 grouped) were destroyed so easily it was terrifying.

By frigates and heavy fighters (3 or 4). The Korath hadn't even used their battle ships. Yet.

I was toast. Totally and completely doomed as was everyone else. There simply wasn't anyway I could match their fire power and "Good" defenses proved less than adequate.

I know the psyonic weapons are much more expensive than the regular weapons but the Korath had no trouble pushing out dozens of ships anyway. As it stood none of the AIs had a snowball's chance in hell against this type of firepower. None. One by one they were wiped off the map. Only the Altarians resisted for a while because they had some defense again them but we were doomed from the 

But still I wonder... could I have done something more? Or is this a balance issue?

Painful, Huge, Abundant Habitable, Common Planets, Abundant Stars, Loose Clusters, Normal tech speed, Common Asteroids, Occasional Extreme. By mistake I forgot to switch off tech trading. Tech brokering off.

First of all, AI is doing really well. I felt pressure as long as I played in the dark without ctrl+u. I'm second in production, 2rd in economy (thank you morale mining base), but 8th in military All while being 1st in research (thank you research mining base ). Done bad in colony rush, most of the worlds where far away and by the time I reached tighter clusters, I had to compete with Thalans and Terrans, so I managed to grab only 21 colonies. 3064 income, 369 net income. I got Planetary Bombardment, Particle Beams II, Efficiency Studies 4, Collective Evaluation, Manufacturing Collective 4 and other techs. No one yet declared war on me so I'm turtling with research, trying to field superior fleets later. Also, I'm in possession of all TG except for Diplomatic Translators (Thalan got better of me). Even as I am no so high in military rating (2/3 of the highest civ, Korath), I think I can overpower easily other civs thanks to them not having small hulls (which is bad as it is 137 turn) and my superior weapons/defenses (minors give defenses so easily :>). As long as they don't team up on me that is. 

Drath: 68%tax, 64 approval, 100% spending, 3199 income, 798 net income, half of total income coming from War Profiteering. Spy slider 3/5. 132 Military Rating.

They got 33 worlds, work currently on Surian Cunning. They do badly in research. Xeno Economy, Xeno Medicine, Xeno Research, Xeno Industrial Theory, Planetary Bombardment, Small ships, Mass Drivers but no weapon tech. And Ion Drive. They got 1st level of farms but only 5 worlds have a single farm on them. Shame nothing can be done about AI and their farms.

Torian: 70tax, 60 approval, 100 spending, 100 spy training. 2528 income, 68 net income. 200-250 each from treaties, tourism, trade. 36 worlds which is very good considering they started in the corner with Drengin and Drath cutting them off from the rest of the galaxy. Xeno Factory, Power Plants, Basic Logistics, Adv Heavy Gravity, Impulse Drive II, Wellness Falls, Basic Miniaturization, Xeno Medicine, Farms, Universities (they got Research Centers from trade), Xeno Economics and Soil Enhancement. Rail Guns III. No Planetary Invasion yet. The're in war with Korx and they're winning. They built 3 farms lvl1 and Harvester on one planet, capping it at 21, hurting themselves. What if we increase AI Value of Harvester and decrease farms? Maybe they will stick to some more healthy numbers. Or buff Harvester and remove farms altogether. Still, they seem strong in every game I have played with them. I guess I'll have to accept they are always one of the greatest threat. Nerfing CoL and their starting stats was a good choice.

Korx: 65tax, 63app, 100 spending, 100 spy. 1999 income, 823 net income, 7500 bc in bank. 500 from War Profit, only 200 from trade. 16 worlds. Mercenaries, Cuthroat Competition, Xeno Industrial Theory, Medicine, Invasion, Mass Drivers but no following techs, no Economy or Morale techs, but they got Research Academies somehow. They skipped Xeno Research and got Research Centers from trade. Adv Aquatic and basic Toxic Colonization. Torians kick their butt strong, and lately Terrans joined in. 

Drengin: 55tax, 60app, 100 spending, 100 spy, 1321 income, 121 net income. 240 from trade and another from treaty. 16 worlds. Ion Cannons II, Planetary Invasion, Medicine (trade, no Xeno Biology), Xeno Slavery and no other following techs. They got Administrative Slavelings and Basic Diplomacy. Tiny hulls. Oh, and they got Military Starbase (most other races do have it, but I don't include it if they research other techs well). They just suck big time. And I even ctrl+n for them and Korath to spawn in good positions. They built 2-4 Arenas on every world. Oh well, they are push overs.

Terran: 69tax, 70app, 100 spending, 100 spy. 3869 income, 648 net income. 2800 from taxes itself. 45 worlds. Research Academies, Xeno Industrial Theory, Trade Centers, Medicine, no Morale tech, Habitat Improvement, Rail Guns II, Starbase Militarization, Planetary Defense I, Invasion, Ethics, Maxed Trade, Impulse Drive II, Tiny hulls. Except for lack of Interstellar Construction and morale techs, they seem fine. Could use less Starbase techs, at least factories or something better.

Korath: 80 tax, 72app, 100 spending, 100 spy. 1854 income, they lose money at -242 a turn. 22 worlds. Laser II, no Invasion, no Spore, Farming lvl 2, Arena of Agony, Soil Enhancement, Diabolical Research, Slave Pits, Medicine, Basic Logistics and Miniaturization, Impulse Drive I, Adv Toxic.

Iconians: 75tax, 60app, 100 spending, 100 spy. 1817 income, losing money at -174. 19 worlds which is very good considering they started in the corner with almost no planets nearby. They work on Medium hulls. Research Academy, Interstellar Refining, all econ techs, Basic Logistic,s Medicine, Adv Toxic, Planetary Bombardment, Scatter Blasters I, Soil Enhancement, Impulse Drive I. I'm surprised they actually built Refinery instead of basic Replicator on +700 manufacturing tile. Unless they got that planet later when they already had the tech.

Altarians: 69tax, 63app, 100 spending, 100 spy. 1300 income, 318 net income. 15 worlds. Singularity Driver I, no Invasion, Medicine, Soil, Farm I, Dark Energy and Divergent Evolution, Research Centers, Xeno Economics, Industrial Theory, Basic Logistics, Miniaturization, Ion Drive,

Thalan: 72tax, 80app, 94 spending, 1/3 spy. 2076 income, losing -400. 28 worlds. Industrial and Technology Adaptation I, Basic Gravitronics, Impulse Drive II, Soil, Invasion, Particle Beams I. No economics techs hurts them most. But main problem is somewhere else: because of high pop home planet (18b) they need to reduce their taxes down. Loads of their worlds stay around 85-100 approval. They could tax their people a bit more.

Solution 1: cut +75 food bonus from Hyperion Matrix

2: buff Temporal Entertainment Matrix to +150 Morale (but what if they built it on other planet then their homeworld?)

3: bit of both: Hyperion to +25 food (down from 75) and Temporal Ent Mat to +75 morale (up from 50).

Any of those easy fixes will sort them out. If any changes to this will be made, I want to test them further. Maybe they need eco bonus after all, small buff like 10-15 economy. But it's easy to say that bad taxing and only first level of each Adaptation tech puts a strain on their income. But not only they are losing money, so it needs more testing.

All civs had Basic Diplomacy, at least Trade I, some had interstellar governments tech. Some had Extreme Colonization but never researched anything (yet!).

Is size of the galaxy affecting research inflation? I used all bonus tiles for research and I seem to blast my way through the tech tree, but AIs seem to be light years behind. Even those with almost twice as many planets. 

Come to think of it, many wars broke out quite early, maybe that's why AIs concentrated more on military production instead of researching? I that is the case, best way to test new updates is without both Terran and Drath in the same game. Hard to keep up with who's fighting with whom.

More edits: Forgot to write, I played beta E.

Question 1: Drengin SA seems weakest of all, is there a possibility of editing Dominator Corvette's, so they could have +1 more weapon? Like adding another Rail gun or something? 

Question 2: So what about Ultimate Slaveling Lab, should we nerf it like CoL? Or increase research cost for the tech slightly? It's 10k tp for other races to get to 12tp lab, Korath/Drengi can get USL for only 1700 tp.

If we buff morale we're making it easier on the player as well. Right now a player will build morale structures, the AI doesn't. If we lower food we're effectively nerfing their main planet's economy while buffing their overal economy by allowing for higher taxes. Both player and AI will be affected similarly.

Lower food seems the best choice.

Galaxy size severely impact the research cost. That is while the small empires (15-25) planets fall behind.

It is possible. I think Marvin did something with the Super Dominator's in his mod.

That does seem very cheap indeed. But it's the same for their industry, high power, cheap, easy to get. That feels fitting. I'll have look at the USL.

I agree with the grumpy old man .

I'm glad someone feels the same way as I do about the Psionic weapons. Toning them down is needed. We could reduce the cost/dmg ratio.

I had a something different in mind. The evil weapons and good defense become "leap frogs". I'll use the Psionic Missile as an example.

The Psionic Missileis unlocked by Harpoon's III. The next 3 techs are Photonic Torpedo 1,2 and 3. So, Psionic Missile gets the same stats as Photon Torpedo I + 10% cost.

So, you leap over three techs to grab a powerful weapon that costs a little bit more. To progress you'll have to grind through Photonic Torpedo's. Once you grab Photon torpedo I the Psionic is replaced because the new weapon is cheaper.

This may seem like a small benefit but researching three weapons in a row can take anywhere between 20 to 40 weeks so for that period you'll be blazing away.

This way you don't introduce a new weapon, you introduce a carbon copy of an existing weapon for an increased cost.

Are you experienced with Google Docs? I've got a few spreadsheets there as well and it could be interesting not to mention effective to collaborate on them.

He actually did the opposite, reduced their weapons by 50%. SuperDominator is highly abuseable from a player-standpoint (basically a freewin on tiny - medium maps when there's multiple enemies present + a freewin on all maps with multiple enemies when you set relation to something else as "unknown")

Basically you declare 1 war every turn from 1st March onward, and you get a constant flow of SD Corvettes each turn. How many you get is based on the sum of attackships/3.75, although always a minimum of 2. Which equates to (total sum) 2/4/6/8/10/12/15/19/24/30/38/48/61/79/101 etc pp

If you put points into diplomacy + weapons you can even demand planets from 15th March on (if AI has more than 3) otherwise you get techs and bcs for free, and then declare war. You send your Corvettes in all directions and shoot everything down that might stifle the AI esp. his Survey Vessel and Constructors/Starbases. Leave souts because you can trade for them to reveal the map and also Colony Ships because you get all planets from him anyway by offering peace.

With enough AI's in game you can get up to 1000 ships (!) and once he doesn't accept peace anymore you use these ships to shoot all his Colony Ships down and basically colonize verything on your own and also take all resources and most anomalies.

How strong you can demand stuff from the AI is based on your MMR (and diplo) and here adding another weapon to these ships will only make it worse. Even in Marvins Mod were all SD Corvettes only have Att+1 you can get planets from the AI from turn 11 onward.

However, the AI doesn't utilize this very well... Basically his SD Corvettes are canon-fodder. They only become powerful if he has a good weapon, enough logistical points and sufficient funds to upgrade them. Given the fact that massdriver is a pretty cheap weapon he generally needs alot of funds to do this, that's why actually his Diplomacy should be high (so enemies will give him more money).

Another method would be to make Super Dominator Corvettes more costly which then could bridge the gap in upgrade costs.

This is the current sheet:

<Ship Name="SolarWing">
<DisplayName>Thunder</DisplayName>
<Model>Thunder</Model>
<Description>Live and let die.</Description>
<Tech_Requirement>ImpossibleTech</Tech_Requirement>
<Component>SmallHull0</Component>
<Component>MassDriver0</Component>
<Component>MassDriver0</Component>
<Component>Sensors0</Component>
<Component>BasicSupport</Component>
</Ship>

The cost of this ship is 92 MP. Once a decent weapon is researched Heavy Fighters can easily surpass +200 MP in cost which means that Drengin will need over 1000 bcs to upgrade a single ship so something semi-strong (it's still only a small hull that won't last very long). But that's probably only an average, it could be much more.

One way to help him would be to implement expensive modules into this build, for example hitpoint-mods:

<Ship Name="SolarWing">
<DisplayName>Thunder</DisplayName>
<Model>Thunder</Model>
<Description>Live and let die.</Description>
<Tech_Requirement>ImpossibleTech</Tech_Requirement>
<Component>SmallHull0</Component>
<Component>MassDriver0</Component>
<Component>MassDriver0</Component>
<Component>Sensors0</Component>
<Component>BasicSupport</Component>

<Component>ExoskeletonHullPoint</Component> 
 </Ship>

This increases their hitpoints from 8 to 14, and given that Drengin do have alot of racial hitpoints bonuses probably takes them to 16. Which also makes them alot more tougher (or "longlastinger") but without further boosting his MMR - because hitpoints are only added 1/10 into the MMR. Additionally the cost rises from 92 to 152, which saves him ~500 bcs in upgrade costs for each ship.

Another thing to think about if one wants to boost the Drengin is to either give him better Diplomacy so he can ask for more money, or to let him have the potential to get a +50 weapons stat which will make all Super Dominator Corvettes from +2 to +3 even if he cannot fund their upgrade.

It would also aid him great if he researches weapons that don't result in too expensive ship-design. For example Yor/Iconian have such weapons (Scatter Blaster) although I think more of tier2 or tier3 weapons.

Another thing; it seems like the bonus for speed only grants 1/10 of it: (in AbilityBonuses.xml)

<Ability Name="Propulsion">
<AbilityIndex>3</AbilityIndex>
<AvailableOptions>2</AvailableOptions>
<BonusUnits>pc</BonusUnits>
<Option0Text>Extra 1 Parsecs/Week</Option0Text>
<Option0Bonus>1</Option0Bonus>
<Option0Cost>40</Option0Cost>
<Option1Text>Extra 2 Parsecs/Week</Option1Text>
<Option1Bonus>2</Option1Bonus>
<Option1Cost>80</Option1Cost>
</Ability>

it should be: 10/ 20 respectively

Hope I didn't forget anything^^ it's friday evening so let's drink some beers   Prost!

SilasOfBorg, I didn't read your last post because I wrote too slowly^^

Just a note (I'm thirsty ) some of these specialized weapons were introduced to acutally boost or throttle an AI. Esp. the vanilla game is far more randomized as we actually perceive it. I think this is ok as it is.

But I like where you going with the psionic weapons, they are way too strong and I'd like to see that fixed. Those weapons as they are now totally defeat the purpose to do additional weapons-research (but the AI will still do this)

I'm also no fan of the super-uber-endtier weapons (they are totally unbalanced versus hitpoints) but it seems that SD treats this as a sort of "technological victory" 

One thing I don't like with the current design is to have cost of the same weapons homogenized, for example Laser1 costs 35, Laser2 35, Laser 3 35. It would be far more interesting in shipbuild when the inferior weapon would cost slightly less, because then the cheap weapon isn't always totally obsolete once the new got researched. For example, if you design a Heavy Fighter with a +2 attack and you still have say, 3 space left that you can't fill with anything else, then you could use one inferior weapon which results i the same firepower but reduced total costs.