DrJBHL DrJBHL

England and Google Glass

England and Google Glass

 

Turns out our allies across the pond aren’t terribly thrilled with the idea of people driving while wearing Google Glass.

Can’t say I blame them. Distracted driving kills and maims. There’s no evidence to support the claim that this wouldn’t distract less.

“According to U.K.-based Stuff, the Department of Transport (DfT) has moved to outlaw the use of Google Glass while operating a motor vehicle, even before the spectacles become available to the general public. ‘We are aware of the impending rollout of Google Glass and are in discussion with the Police to ensure that individuals do not use this technology while driving,’ a DfT spokesman told the site. ‘It is important that drivers give their full attention to the road when they are behind the wheel and do not behave in a way that stops them from observing what is happening on the road.’” – PCMag

In 2003, Britain outlawed using hand held devices while driving cars and motorcycles.

This ban would also affect some of Tesla’s advanced features. Interestingly, West Virginia proposed a ban on head worn gadgets while driving, but no action has been taken yet.

 

Source:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2422591,00.asp

96,179 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting HighWater, reply 24

Would you please back your claim up with some statistics? Again, from first person experience, Indian cities are NOT safe when it comes to traffic, even when the inevitable gridlock occurs...
End of HighWater's quote

 

there's this:

http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/mainlinkFile/File761.pdf

it's pretty large document, but you can look at the amount of fatal accidents involving three-wheelers which are very common in inner cities, but very rare on national highways is low, while the amount of trucks is high.

i am not saying that traffic in an Indian cities is safe. but from my personal experience, while i never had an accident involving an other party here in Europe, it would not take longer than ten minutes until i crash into an other vehicle should i try to drive a car in Ahmedabad for example. and it would be completely my own fault. the only thing i dare is driving a motorcycle in rural areas. if you would throw a bunch of Westerners into the Indian inner city traffic i am sure the vast majority would fail miserably. crossing roads by foot is hard enough for the first few times. ;)

Reply #27 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 25
It is a complex behavior comprised of visual, auditory touch, motor activity, their integration and modification.
End of DrJBHL's quote

It's actually spatial processing within all FOUR dimensions. It's difficulty is an exponential function of speed.

....and there's also a ridiculous number of 'drivers' out there who are incapable of doing it all backwards....and reverse-park....;)

Reply #28 Top

moshi ...I'm sure Indian roads are as safe as their railways...;)

Reply #29 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 25

If I understand what you're trying to assert moshi, driving is at some level processed differently than all other inputs. 

That simply isn't correct. It is a complex behavior comprised of visual, auditory touch, motor activity, their integration and modification.

It is extremely complex (and takes years to learn), and adding anything to it won't happen "in parallel". You have only one mind. Therefore, anything added requires stopping one and processing the other. Yes, on a cerebellar level, your foot and hands remain in the same position (after learning how to do that) but that is the final common pathway (not exactly, but close), and the "processor" slows because additional inputs are being added and thought about.

Adding input slows the processing.
End of DrJBHL's quote

 

of course adding input slows the processing. the question is whether the brain is capable of handling it. 

when i used a navigation assistant for the first time, it sure was an odd feeling and i looked at more often than necessary. now it has zero impact (i'm sure it has some, but practically there is none). the brain got used to it, and it was pretty fast doing so. it may even make the whole driving safer as i no longer need to look out for road signs as much as before when driving in an unknown area.

the brain is just awesome. one just needs to look out of the window and realize how many things there are that you actually see, but do not notice because only the relevant information is processed further. :)

Reply #30 Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 28

moshi ...I'm sure Indian roads are as safe as their railways...
End of Jafo's quote

 

well, my point was that the human brain is capable of processing a much higher amount of information than some people in this thread think. i am sure nobody would argue that a huge amount of people on the road combined with what in our eyes is sheer chaos (actually it is not, it's pretty fascinating to watch the structures from a rooftop) is a higher amount of information to digest than just adding a HUD. still people do drive there, and so could anybody after a while (although it might be a tough learning process). the human brain can and will adjust.

Reply #31 Top

The point is that the processing takes time and 'relegating' other inputs downward. Unfortunately, RxT=D and with the slowing of processing, things will happen that cannot be related to/reacted to adequately as processes have to be 'unloaded' and rethought.

There's just not enough time to accomplish all that, unfortunately.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 31

The point is that the processing takes time and 'relegating' other inputs downward. Unfortunately, RxT=D and with the slowing of processing, things will happen that cannot be related to/reacted to adequately as processes have to be 'unloaded' and rethought.

There's just not enough time to accomplish all that, unfortunately.
End of DrJBHL's quote

 

i think we just have to agree to disagree here. in my opinion the brain is easily capable of handling that. i don't think the roads would be safer if cars would have no dashboards (although that would be less information to digest). actually i think that information (like a speedometer) makes driving safer.

of course it would have to be relevant information. incoming email or too much sight-seeing information would be distracting. but i sure would welcome weather alerts or traffic jam warnings.

again: Google Glass is not ideal for driving in my opinion. it's just too versatile (at least it's not Bing Glass ;)). what BMW has to offer is great though. unfotunately out of my budget.

Reply #33 Top

I just know someone would use Google glass to watch TV or lookup things on the internet while they are driving and end up causing a big accident potentially injuring not only themselves but other people too.

+1 Loading…
Reply #34 Top

Quoting moshi, reply 26

there's this:

http://morth.nic.in/writereaddata/mainlinkFile/File761.pdf

it's pretty large document, but you can look at the amount of fatal accidents involving three-wheelers which are very common in inner cities, but very rare on national highways is low, while the amount of trucks is high.

i am not saying that traffic in an Indian cities is safe. but from my personal experience, while i never had an accident involving an other party here in Europe, it would not take longer than ten minutes until i crash into an other vehicle should i try to drive a car in Ahmedabad for example. and it would be completely my own fault. the only thing i dare is driving a motorcycle in rural areas. if you would throw a bunch of Westerners into the Indian inner city traffic i am sure the vast majority would fail miserably. crossing roads by foot is hard enough for the first few times.
End of moshi's quote

Three wheelers are indeed very common in the inner cities, but inner cities are weird, trafficwise and hardly representative. I'll give some examples why looking at rickshaw related fatalities to determine driver competence is perhaps flawed:

- Rickshaws are not cars: They are three-wheeled mopeds. They lack the speed and the bulk of a car, which makes them inherently safer-to-get-hit-by, while rickshaw passengers and drivers are safer during an accident than on a regular moped because a rickshaw has more wheels (3 wheels are much more stable than 2) and a much better safety structure shielding the inhabitants. Rickshaws are mopeds with extra safety for the driver & passengers, it is likely they will do better than both cars and mopeds all other things being equal.

- The rickshaw environment is not representative for "traffic". As you already noted they are almost completely limited to the inner city. Indian innercities are often gridlocked. A rickshaw that has little space to move is unlikely to hit, let alone kill, anything, and in a gridlocked environment, nothing heavy is likely to hit the rickshaw (mopeds and motorcycles are more mobile which makes them (ironically perhaps) more likely to be involved in inner city accidents). Fatalities are likely to be low in inner cities regardless, because even in a non-gridlocked city, high speeds are unlikely (speed and mass are huge factors in accidents and fatalities, you can be hit and killed by a car going 10kph, but a car going 100kph is much more likely to do the job).

- Rickshaw drivers don't make that much of a fuss about fender-benders. Generally, small-time accidents such as these go unreported, because for all involved parties it is cheaper and faster to just pay up or give up, rather than getting the police or insurance companies involved. Rickshaw incidents therefore may suffer from under-reporting.

- I couldn't find information regarding actual rickshaw numbers and actual rickshaw kills, though I must admit I probably didn't look hard enough (I am unconvinced that they can serve as a proper illustration). The article provided only gives rickshaw fatalities as a % of total fatalities, which is meaningless without an actual rickshaw count and other information.

I don't think looking at rickshaws in this report gives much useful information regarding driver competence.

In preventing accidents, time is of the essence. In preventing traffic deaths, decreasing force is vital. In both "time available for action" and "total force applied" the speed of the involved vehicles plays a major role, as does the reaction of the driver (breaking earlier reduces speed, which reduces force on impact). Once again, an attentive driver will on average respond quicker and more accurately than a distracted driver, which is why distractions for drivers are a liability in traffic, which is the focal point of this thread.

 

This is, however, not necessarely the point you are arguing against. Your point, if I understood it correctly, is that in a high-input environment, the brain will adapt to process more information. This is only true to a limited extend.

Yes, putting a westener on the Indian roads means she/he will have a harder time than the Indians themselves until she/he adapts. This is a matter of experience. Things that are unlikely to happen in Europe, are common in India, and, being from Europe, I'd have a hard time anticipating such occurences with the necessary accuracy, forcing me to use a much higher safety limit than the Indians. However, this also works the other way around. An Indian that applies the "traffic rules" he's used to in India, will find that Europeans behave differently, which increases his/her chance of having an accident in Europe (it's amazing how many tourists completely overlook cyclists in Amsterdam when determining whether it's safe to cross the road). Being put in a different traffic-culture, and therefore being "out of your element", increases the chances of misinterpreting or missing something, with all the expected problems.This is not a problem restricted to Westerners in India. I do suspect Indian traffic requires more active attention than elsewhere, but active attention cannot fully compensate for smaller margins of error and higher numbers of possible mistakes. Indian traffic is, when it's moving at least, more dangerous than for instance the UK.

However, I will not say that Indian traffic is without rules. Indeed there is some weird organisation to the Indian city "chaos", in fact, it is this organisation and the fact that Indians are used to it, that prevents a lot of additional accidents. A lot of what we know and what we filter is processed unconsciously. Experience is key, the unconscious patterns are very important and much of what we do has been decided unconsciously before we even become aware.This, however, has not too much bearing on the topic. Yes we can learn to do a lot of things unconsciously, but this topic is about something which is inherently a conscious process, social communication, which disrupts a mostly unconscious process (driving). Conversations are not predictable enough to handle on auto-pilot, and even if they were, they would be more information to process unconsciously and the unconscious, lke the conscious, does not have unlimited processing speed. And speed and time are oh-so important...

Which is why, as I mentioned, HUDs MAY be a good thing, but only if they help you drive (navigate, monitor speed, etc.). They are a bad thing if they help you do something other than that.

(p.s. I don't think it's likely that you will crash your car in 10 minutes in Hyderabad, atlhough it sometimes feels that way when you see the driver at work. You may crash if you immediatly ty to copy everything the Indians do, but if you stick to European rules and "common sense" until you figure out which gambits are "safe enough", you are unlikely to get hit and unlikely to hit anyone, although you will get to your destination slower. When it comes to safety, I'd prefer sitting in a car in the urban chaos over driving a motorcycle in rural areas.)

Reply #35 Top

yeah, Hyderabad might be more "doable", but it has relatively large roads and particularly in areas like Banjara Hills or Jubilee Hills is rather modern. that's why i picked Ahmedabad as an example. 

Reply #36 Top

Can't we just short-circuit this entire distraction issue by getting self-driving cars? That would save so many lives anyway.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Sarudak, reply 36
Can't we just short-circuit this entire distraction issue by getting self-driving cars? That would save so many lives anyway.
End of Sarudak's quote

How many times has your computer crashed? Or hung? Or done something you didn't intend it to....?

 

Reply #38 Top

Quoting Earth, reply 37

How many times has your computer crashed? Or hung? Or done something you didn't intend it to....?

 
End of Earth's quote

 

That is a specious argument. Comparing a personal computer with one company making the motherboard, another making  the hard drive, another making the operating system another making the application, etc to a system made with only one purpose and choosing components and programming it with only that hardware in mind is not a fair comparison.

This is NOT to say that a dedicated, unified system cannot have bugs or glitches.

Humans make errors as well.

Reply #39 Top

Quoting flagyl, reply 38



Quoting Earth Force Captain,
reply 37

How many times has your computer crashed? Or hung? Or done something you didn't intend it to....?

 


 

That is a specious argument. Comparing a personal computer with one company making the motherboard, another making  the hard drive, another making the operating system another making the application, etc to a system made with only one purpose and choosing components and programming it with only that hardware in mind is not a fair comparison.

This is NOT to say that a dedicated, unified system cannot have bugs or glitches.

Humans make errors as well.
End of flagyl's quote

The Low level TFR of an F111 is handled by computer.....and it has two back-up fail-safe systems so you don't end up at mach1 into a barn/whatever.  If the failsafe systems also go down the plane is launched into a 6G climb....bugs out from low level.

I kinda think the 6G bug-out for a car would be 'problematic' ....;)

Reply #40 Top

People forget...(or never knew) that Astronauts (the original ones) went into space with less computing power on board than your phone has.

None of which is germane to the central fact that the English government has shown more brains and determination than you'll find in ours.