Questions from a New Player

I got this for Christmas from a nephew, starting playing last week. After using Beginner to get use to the game, I tried Normal. Now I'm on a Challenging game. And some things I don't get.

1)This game has the Drengin nearby so I was hoping to be pushed on the war front. But just as with my easier games, the Drengin don't seem to grow quickly. They can threaten all they want now. I have fast enough ships to wipe-out their troop ships. What level gets the Drengin's backside in gear? Altarian seems to have the same problem sometimes. Only the Troxin seem to push-out quickly, and I don't enjoy a game of just keeping them out of my face. I hate those guys.

2)I went on some forum sites tonight and noticed that ship construction seems to concentrate on Offense. But in my normal game I had two groups that didn't like me. But I made note of their weapons and concentrated on defense. I may have lost one or two ships in the fleet, but once passed the first salvo, they were toast. And I gained hit points (levels) on ships not being destroyed. Am I right in assuming that? (Please note: I go after a "Pathfinder" early on. This is a ship I designed so I could quickly upgrade my scout ships to survey ships. If the game wants to give me a 1000 credits every once in a while, I'm going to get as much as I can. And Scout ships aren't all that useful after Cartography.  Actually, not that useful before either.  Buying factories helps move planets along nicely. But to get a Pathfinder, I need Impulse III, Miniaturization III, and Logistics II early on. This gives me room for some extra Defense on my early Defenders. And the AI at challenging level, still doesn't see the need for speed.)

3) The Pirate plague is a great event. But I'm the only one that seems to work on clearing my space? Why does the AI leave them alone? The Jag*** League is another interesting event--- I hate loosing planets. But again the AI lets their empires have a swath of possibly enemy planets--- does this change at higher levels?

4) Is the ability to upgrade Starbases all you want after the Council puts on a limit of two modules a well known bug and is it considered acceptable to abuse the rule?

5) Can I use "Upgrade" to speed-up repair?

6)I wanted to post a picture of my "Condor Dreadnought" and "Condor Leader" for comment but have never done anything like that before. How would I do it?

 

Thanks

Bob

 

20,213 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top

1) This is caused by a combination of problems:

First, there are several errors in the techtree, that prevent the AI from making good use of it. E.g., Space Weapons is mislabeled as Point Defense for the Altarians and a few others, so they only research it if someone is using Missile Weapons.

Second, AI Personality 7 (Drengin, Korath and Yor) and 10 (Torian and Iconian) are considered broken. AIP 7 only colonizes planet within its cultural borders, which severely hampers it during the colony rush. While AIP 10 does extremely well during the colony rush, but only fully utilizes the first few planets it got.

The AI problem can be overcome by choosing a different personality for those races. You can do this by clicking on the "edit" button in the opponent selection screen and then going to the "personality" tab. AIP 8 (Terran, Thalan and Drath) is quite militaristic. Combined with a high aggressiveness, it would be most fitting for the Drengin and Yor. AIP 11 (Generic, all other major races) can be used for the Torians and Iconians. The Korath, however, are a special case, as only AIP 7 can use their Spore Weapon Super Ability.

The techtree problem can only be fixed by editing the xml files. There are currently two mods available that do this. MarvinKosh's "Space Weapons Fix" and "TotA TechTree Fix" by Tolmekian. Both do a very good job at making the AI more competitive. They do however change the layout of the techtree. Especially MarvinKosh's is quite radical. If you are interested, you can find them in the modding sub-forum.

2) Yes, HP increases with gained experience and level.

3) This is somewhat affected by the problems as outlined in 1). If the AI has a big enough army, it will eventually go after them. But not always.

4) That one is new to me. Are you certain the proposal passed?

5) Yes, but only if you upgrade to a different design.

6) I haven't tried this myself. Hopefully someone else can answer this question for you.

 

Welcome to the forums!

Reply #2 Top

Welcome to the forums.

It take an in game picture, press Ctrl+Print Screen. The Print Screen should be next to your F12 button or near it.

The pictures will be stored in the Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\ScreenShots folder for your own viewing pleasure.

Reply #3 Top

Gaunathor,

Thank you for the answer, very complete.  I don't think I'll be rewriting the tech tree but I will try the different personality types.

I figured the starbase--- "workaround" shall we call it-- would be known.  The Council law on a two-max module upgrade to a starbase stops additional construction ships from entering starbase space---- if the starbase is the endpoint of the trip.  If the square next to the starbase is the endpoint but movement of the construction ship just happens while over the starbase,  well hit "B" and it opens up the module dialogue box. The Council law becomes as useful as a UN Resolution.

Thanks again,

Bob

 

Reply #4 Top

dnzrx1,

Thank you for the welcome and instructions.  I will try it this week.

 

Bob

Reply #5 Top

Sorry for poorly written sentences. 

I wrote:  If the square next to the starbase is the endpoint but movement of the construction ship just happens while over the

Should Read:  If the square next to the starbase is the endpoint but movement of the construction ship just happens to end while over the

And my "Pathfinder" Needs Sensors 3; Lifesupport 2; and Miniaturization 2.

Not important but wanted to be accurate.  The game kept me up late and I'm paying for it. LOL.

Bob

Reply #6 Top

Re #5 - I've done repairs by rush buying the same ship.  (Upgrading to the same ship).  It can take some time to complete if you're far from your empire so you need to be in a safe area.  If the enemy gets to your ship during the upgrade cycle, you'll only have 1 hit point and no weapons. A sitting duck for even a light fighter.  A real shame if you're repairing a huge hulled beasty.

Quoting dnzrx1, reply 2
Welcome to the forums.


It take an in game picture, press Ctrl+Print Screen. The Print Screen should be next to your F12 button or near it.

The pictures will be stored in the Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\ScreenShots folder for your own viewing pleasure.

End of dnzrx1's quote

re #6 - That ^^^ and if you want to post it, you'll need to host it.  Imageshack is pretty popular, as is Photobucket.  You can google them.  Both have free options.  

When you upload the picture, copy the forum code and paste it into your post or copy the direct link and use the Image Tool in the post.  It looks like a little tree to the left of the smilies.

Welcome to the forums and the game.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting NRSONE, reply 3
Gaunathor,
I figured the starbase--- "workaround" shall we call it-- would be known.  The Council law on a two-max module upgrade to a starbase stops additional construction ships from entering starbase space---- if the starbase is the endpoint of the trip.  If the square next to the starbase is the endpoint but movement of the construction ship just happens while over the starbase,  well hit "B" and it opens up the module dialogue box. The Council law becomes as useful as a UN Resolution.
 
End of NRSONE's quote

Yes, that is known. By your earlier description I figured you meant the law wasn't working and you could upgrade your starbases directly.

 

Quoting MottiKhan, reply 6
Re #5 - I've done repairs by rush buying the same ship.  (Upgrading to the same ship).  It can take some time to complete if you're far from your empire so you need to be in a safe area.  If the enemy gets to your ship during the upgrade cycle, you'll only have 1 hit point and no weapons. A sitting duck for even a light fighter.  A real shame if you're repairing a huge hulled beasty.
End of MottiKhan's quote
 

You're right. I was confusing it with the inability to upgrade a fully healed ship to the same design. Tried that a couple of times by accident before I noticed that the ship already had been upgraded. I really shouldn't post (or play), if I have slept for less than three hours.

Reply #9 Top

Mottikahn,

Thanks.  Worked.

 

Gaunathor,

I figured it had known. 

 

Bob

Reply #10 Top

Risking being a pest:

1) People talk about unhappiness being a problem at higher levels-- but you get tax money.   Has anyone figured-out the optimum in trade-off of squares dedicated to "Crowd Pleasers" versus population generated taxes.  This would be without any Wonders dedicated to keeping the Rabble happy.

 

2) If you run a Trade route to a safe trading partner, can you run the route through multiple Starbases for multiple Tarrifs, or is it one and done.

 

3) If you have two special squares for manufacturing etc on one planet does it make sense to use one for an assisting improvement  (ie, Fusion) ?  Or a Capitol improvement? 

 

4) The Dread Lords are a strange phenom.  They showed-up in my present game. I fill the planet with spies and kill-off the the DL's unarmed Scout.  They keep rebuilding (slowly) the scout.   They lost control of the Galaxy because they're dumb.  Do they ever try to clear-out the spies?  Or stop producing scouts?  Where is the Dread in Dread Lords.

 

5) I got two Rangers in my present game.  I'm about to quite the game because I could create a fleet that would usually not exist until the end of the game.  Yet when the AI gets these ships, they don't seem to use them  well.  I saw one CIV surrender with a Ranger in a previous game.  What is the opinion of the Gal Civ Community on these ships showing up?

 

Bob

Thanks for the info on switching the personality types.  It's a better game.  And because the other Civ's are progressing better, the Torian aren't as annoying-- so far.  I ran a successful freeze-out strategy on their trying to grab colonies.  And that's fun.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting NRSONE, reply 10
Risking being a pest:

1) People talk about unhappiness being a problem at higher levels-- but you get tax money.   Has anyone figured-out the optimum in trade-off of squares dedicated to "Crowd Pleasers" versus population generated taxes.  This would be without any Wonders dedicated to keeping the Rabble happy.
End of NRSONE's quote

Are you referring to actual population increasing structures, ie farms? The top end for that comes early, as higher populations are harder and harder to keep happy.  It's non-linear, so 16b people are not simple 1/2 as happy as 8b people.  I'm sure others will give you a more precise answer, but you'll find out quickly that you don't want to push your populations too high.

I did answer a question about the optimum number of farm+morale vs economic buildings. Here is my reply.  It breaks down how many stock markets you need to make it profitable to use from 1 to 4 squares for farm+morale buildings.

 

2) If you run a Trade route to a safe trading partner, can you run the route through multiple Starbases for multiple Tarrifs, or is it one and done.
End of quote

You can run it through as many starbases as you can fit, adding the bonus for each additional starbase.

3) If you have two special squares for manufacturing etc on one planet does it make sense to use one for an assisting improvement  (ie, Fusion) ?  Or a Capitol improvement? 
End of quote

Manufacturing bonus squares don't help the %bonus improvements.  Don't use them for power plants, man. capitals, etc.

 

4) The Dread Lords are a strange phenom.  They showed-up in my present game. I fill the planet with spies and kill-off the the DL's unarmed Scout.  They keep rebuilding (slowly) the scout.   They lost control of the Galaxy because they're dumb.  Do they ever try to clear-out the spies?  Or stop producing scouts?  Where is the Dread in Dread Lords.
End of quote

The Dread Lords seem dumb because, quite frankly, they are. Their RaceConfig.xml entry is missing the code that lets them use maximum AI ability and CPU power. This is something I fixed in my mod.

 

5) I got two Rangers in my present game.  I'm about to quite the game because I could create a fleet that would usually not exist until the end of the game.  Yet when the AI gets these ships, they don't seem to use them  well.  I saw one CIV surrender with a Ranger in a previous game.  What is the opinion of the Gal Civ Community on these ships showing up?
End of quote

Don't have much for you here, sorry. I've noticed that the AI can fail to use freebie type ships - those that either pop up through events or are given to them. I also wouldn't expect the AI to realize that it has the premier warships in the galaxy and go on a rampage with them. The AI just isn't capable of that.
 

Thanks for the info on switching the personality types.  It's a better game.  And because the other Civ's are progressing better, the Torian aren't as annoying-- so far.  I ran a successful freeze-out strategy on their trying to grab colonies.  And that's fun.
End of quote

Changing the personality types is just one step in making Twilight a fully enjoyable experience.  You really need to either fix the TechTrees yourself or run a mod that does it for you.  Several races have serious problems with research due to rampant typos, omissions, and blatant errors in their TechTrees. As a new player, I can understand that you may not want to deal with mods, but you will be very happy that you did.  If you're interested, may I recommend . . .

Tolmekian's TechTree fix - My mod.  Fixes the TechTrees and also many other problems with starbase modules, planetary improvements, UP votes, and other things.  Current version 2.0, with 2.1 to be released shortly.  Pretty much preserves the game while, in my opinion, improving it.  It may be a mod, but it's not like you're playing a different game.

Good luck, and have fun!

 

Reply #12 Top

Small corrections to Tolmekian's answers:

1. 20B population is the highest you generally want to take it, with 5x/6x +39 morale resources, trade goods, tech, for DA.  Mining resources can go higher in TA, but even with +78 resources (Thalan tree is the only one that can get quite this high), you'll only be able to handle about 22B, without having to lower your tax rate significantly, and/or needing far too many VRCs to be worthwhile versus stock markets.

2. Trade modules on economic starbases increase the value of the trade route while the freighter is within the area of the effect.  This means you can have your freighters run through multiple economic SB arrays, but, generally speaking, only one area will have an effect at any given time.

Reply #13 Top

Thanks again.  A brief time off that allowed me to explore this game has come to an unexpected end.  But I want to thank all for the time in answering my questions.  My game playing time is back to brief periods. 

Two final questions when I do get a chance to play.  When one rips apart the Defender you are allowed a free Particle Beam, Sensor and Basic Support -- a bug?

Foreign Influence Starbases: Concern over the affect of a foreign influence base--- can you counterbalance the effect of the foreign starbase with one of your own in the same area without giving up an available square on a planet to an embassy?  (I don't want to start a war, and the other Civ is not at war with someone I can give a small ship located next to the offending Starbase.  A great trick I read of but have not been able to try.)

 

Tolmekian--- the explanation of the morale vs economic structures was what I needed, thanks. 

 

Sole Soul-- I had a series of planets with economic bases between me and the Altarians and the freight route.  So it makes sense to use a trade node on each one.  Thanks

Reply #14 Top

Quoting NRSONE, reply 13
Two final questions when I do get a chance to play.  When one rips apart the Defender you are allowed a free Particle Beam, Sensor and Basic Support -- a bug?

Foreign Influence Starbases: Concern over the affect of a foreign influence base--- can you counterbalance the effect of the foreign starbase with one of your own in the same area without giving up an available square on a planet to an embassy?  (I don't want to start a war, and the other Civ is not at war with someone I can give a small ship located next to the offending Starbase.  A great trick I read of but have not been able to try.)
End of NRSONE's quote

Those are dummy modules, which are in the game purely for aesthetics, for instance if one wants a ship design with mirrored modules, but without the capacity or need for two such modules.  At least, that's how I remember it.

But really, if you want to stand up to the AI's ships, you should design your own-TA has an autodesigner as well, for the human player, but the AI autodesigns ships regardless of version.

Probably, never tested that myself-but if their influence isn't over about 3x yours (it can't flip until 4x), there's no cause for alarm.  This information shows on the bottom of the screen with the planet selected in the galaxy view.

With regards to the trade routes: True enough, just wanted to make sure you were aware that they don't stack infinitely.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Sole, reply 14

With regards to the trade routes: True enough, just wanted to make sure you were aware that they don't stack infinitely.
End of Sole's quote

I didn't know that.  Thank you for the correction.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Tolmekian, reply 11
4) The Dread Lords are a strange phenom. They showed-up in my present game. I fill the planet with spies and kill-off the the DL's unarmed Scout. They keep rebuilding (slowly) the scout. They lost control of the Galaxy because they're dumb. Do they ever try to clear-out the spies? Or stop producing scouts? Where is the Dread in Dread Lords.

The Dread Lords seem dumb because, quite frankly, they are. Their RaceConfig.xml entry is missing the code that lets them use maximum AI ability and CPU power. This is something I fixed in my mod.
End of Tolmekian's quote

I did not know this, and find myself quite worried by it - I've only run into the Dread Lords on TA once, but when I did they were pretty tough - I'm not sure I want to face "smart" Dread Lords.

The ones on DA do seem pretty dumb, though.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting qrtxian, reply 16

I did not know this, and find myself quite worried by it - I've only run into the Dread Lords on TA once, but when I did they were pretty tough - I'm not sure I want to face "smart" Dread Lords.

The ones on DA do seem pretty dumb, though.
End of qrtxian's quote

If you give them enough time to build up, the Dread Lords can become quite powerful despite being "brain damaged". Otherwise, they just provide another high class planet for whoever gets to them first.

Reply #18 Top

I went on some forum sites tonight and noticed that ship construction seems to concentrate on Offense. 

This is because the tech tree greatly favors offense over defense. It costs 2 1/2 to 3 times as much to counter a high-end weapon (like the Doom Ray, for instance) with the appropriate defense. This makes for longer build times and much higher expense. I don't care much for this system, but it is what it is.......

 But I made note of their weapons and concentrated on defense. I may have lost one or two ships in the fleet, but once passed the first salvo, they were toast.

This may work for early and mid-game, but when opponents start showing up with starship attack values well over 100, no amount of defense is going to hold up.

I play almost exclusively as the Yor (for the mini bonus) and I get as many of the "mini" TG's as I can, and research the Mini tech to it's max. This allows me to pack as much firepower on a small as most civs frigates, and as much on my mediums as most battleships or dreads. I can produce my ships much faster, so I usually win the attrition war.

 I also build my Kamikaze Class with the express intent of decimating the biggest enemy fleets I face. I take a cargo hull and pack it full of weapons, and send them in. It may take several of these fleets to get the job done, but once space is cleared of the enemy 'heavies', I send in my "regulars' to finish off anything that remains.

Military starbases are a waste of time, IMHO, but the only time I will build one is to "slingshot" my kamikaze into enemy space all buffed for battle with the bonuses granted from the starbase.

BTW, I've tried putting just minimal offense and maximum defense on ships, but in the face of the "Black Hole" weapons, or the Doom Ray, they get toasted anyways. Might as well take down as many ships as possible with my own high-end weapons........just my 2bc. 

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Klaatoo, reply 18
values well over 100, no amount of defense is going to hold up.
End of Klaatoo's quote

Perhaps TA is vastly different, but in DA with all miniturization techs, and military resources, having over 1000 defense on a huge hull is not uncommon.
I favor engines over att/def, always having just enough to counter the AI's best fleets, but in my current game, with bonuses, i have over 400 defence and over 300 attack, with speed 24.

Late game with multiple shrinkers and all military resources maxed out, you cen get some insane amounts of att/def.

Quoting Klaatoo, reply 18
Military starbases are a waste of time, IMHO
End of Klaatoo's quote

For anything but score, you are correct. If you want 1mill+ games SB arrays are a must.