A thought on modding races and balance.

I notice there have been some truly brilliant mods developed that, amongst other things, correct the imbalance between different Civs.

Some thoughts follow, none of which are a criticism of the nods in question but rather an exploration of possibilities.

I started thinking about the underlying assumption:  Do the Civs NEED to be balanced?  Is gameplay worse if some Civs are intrinsically weaker than others?  Or is it better - in some ways at least?

A clue to the answer can be seen in Tolmekian's mod.  He made a lot of changes to make the major races more balanced.  But he also made the game more fun by beefing up the minor races, yet deliberately leaving them weaker than the major races.  In effect creating weaker "major" races.  This suggests that a lopsided challenge can actually make the game more interesting and fun.

The Arceans tend to "turtle".  This defensive posture makes it very hard for them to win and generally they end up as prey to a more aggressive civ.  Does this make the game worse?  Or does it make the game more interesting and immersive?

If some races sink too much into their military early, ultimately burning out economically, but making you sweat in the meanwhile - does that make the game more or less enjoyable?

Say one race has an outright weaker tech tree than others (as opposed to the AI tech weightings and categorization being borked which is a bug)  and almost never wins.  Does it make it more interesting to have their empire as fodder for the other races to fight over?  Does it add an interesting challenge to play AS that race?

I'm guessing my opinion's shining through pretty clearly. :D. But I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks...

7,808 views 5 replies
Reply #1 Top

. The main topic of balance is the balance of power among all Civs in a given scenario.  Having minor civs that can colonize, or that can't colonize but are as powerful as a full Civ can drastically alter the rate and manner at which full Civs expand.  It will also mean greater use from alliances with minor civs.  Imagine allying with every minor civ on a map?  Making a United Federation of Planets all your own, gaining access to possibly unique technologies and such.

. A secondary topic is the concept that a race can be equal but weaker.  To take your example of the Arceans, while it might be a fun challenge to play as them and try to win, what's the point of having them on a map?  If the "turtle" strategy of their AI makes their ultimate defeat a forgone conclusion, what's the point of having them?
. With minor civs, this is fine...they're minor.  Full Civs though should always have a roughly equal chance of winning, all things being equal.  The Arceans shouldn't just turtle, they should be like an inexorable wave of conquest taking one world at a time like an unstoppable glacial wall.  It might take a long time for them to conquer the whole map, but good luck standing in their way.  Obviously they don't currently work that way, but I hope you see my point.

. Finally, with all the other ways of adjusting the game's difficulty, creating imbalanced Civs that exist solely as irritating cannon fodder meant to hamper your progress and nothing more...well, it's just excessively complex and not really very interesting.  Again, the minor civs are already intended to fulfill this role.
. Now, it might be reasonable to have full Civs that are more complicated to manage and difficult to play correctly with more unconventional concepts behind their racial strategies, such that they only shine as AI Civs when the game's difficulty and such are turned up.  But aside from that, having weaker full Civs is really both unnecessary and doesn't add enough to the game compared to what it takes away.

. It could be possible to mod new full Civs into the game that are as handicapped as a minor civ purely for the challenge of it, but that sounds to me like a failing of the original game to provide sufficient challenge on its own.  After all, mathematical exploitations, and actual tactical and strategic thinking have almost nothing in common.  Most tactical and strategy games employ little if any actual tactics or strategy in the first place because games simply aren't yet capable of processing that many variables of such broad ranges.  Whether that inability is a failure on the part of programmers and designers, or of contemporary technology is a matter of debate at the moment.

. In closing, I think every game should have major and minor elements, and that each should stick to its role in a game.  Real life doesn't care about balance or fairness, and as such, simulations shouldn't either.  But true games should care about balance and fairness.  The idea behind a game is that you learn the rules of the game and exploit that knowledge to complete the victory conditions of the game.  The concept being, all things being equal, you and your friend will be evenly matched in every scenario and thus comes down to who actually plays better.
. For instance, Hopscotch isn't the kind of game whose rules you can really exploit mathematically.  It ultimately becomes a matter of how good your hand-eye coordination is (for throwing the token into a particular square) and how good your balance is (for the hopping up and down the track).  The rules are perfectly consistent at all times for all players, but some players just suck at it.  And the same should be true for all games.  As games have gotten more complex and varied, this has been lost to the point that most don't even remember the fact.  Hopefully it makes a comeback soon because games nowadays are just getting worse and worse.

. Here's hoping.

Reply #2 Top

I was going to post a longer reply here, but that really sums it all up.

I do agree that having colonizing minors (a mod I also use) is probably the best of both worlds between having deliberately handicapped races and giving everyone a fair shot. The colonizing minors are no pushovers, but they certainly aren't likely to ever win, and that seems like a good thing to me.

I have been experimenting with trying to get races that play differently then the norm, but different should not mean weak. Having the Arceans as turtlers is nice, but not if they have no chance to win (which seems usual). In contrast, I think what I've managed to do with the Iconians - create a civilization geared overwhelmingly towards research over military - is much more successful, as they've managed to win a tech victory despite having no military at all (albeit in a test game with no human player). The Arceans, however, while a tough race to finish off, have never, ever come anywhere close to winning one of my games on TA, except when I play as them.

Reply #3 Top

I suppose it depends on what you think is a good playing strategy (for a human or AI civ).  For example, cheap swarms of fighters will basically dominate the early game if you have the economy to back them, but they will easily be swatted by a few fleets of decent frigates.  So in that case it's a good strategy to not rely on swarms, to get your own frigates and dominate with them.

;)

Reply #4 Top

I was just thinking about this again, and I wonder if this really reflects a preference for "campaign-style" play vs "multiplayer-style" play.

I quite enjoy campaign play where the game is almost always heavily imbalanced - that's part of the challenge.  But sandbox is essentially a multiplayer game where all but one of the players are AIs.  And in multiplayer games there's an expectation that the game will be "fair".

An unbalanced Sandbox would be more campaign-like and I still believe that it would be fun.  I'd make a mod to test that theory if I didn't have the attention-span of a gnat.  X|

Reply #5 Top

Well, if you're interested in "unusual" civilizations, I just created a "super minor race" that were effectively Dread Lords you could talk to - they couldn't colonize, but they had access to all technologies in their tech tree. It should be interesting to see how things go for them (I haven't used them yet except to make sure that the modding actually worked).

Depending on how this goes, I may try and create more "oddball" minor civilizations that can shake things up, while still having my major races play at a balanced level.