Im sure im missing something

Hi all,

I have played GC2 (Ult Edition) for quite some time, fairly off and on, and there have been some thing I have never really gotten the hang of.

 

1 - money, and 2 - racial interactions.

 

Money as a basic thing I get, btu in the first few hundred turns, I am always strapped for cash and/or having to keep my production at or below 60%,just to keep myself in the black (never more than 25bc per turn and normally around 10).  And I am like this, able to produce and research for quite a while, up until you second biggest chassis of ships, maybe 3rd largest if I am doing really well, and I have DOZENS of planets and LOTS of trade, then I start making some cash.  While this isn't my first TBS, im also not a guru outside of MOO2.  Is there somehting I am missing?  The only descent source of income I make after a while is tourism, and the only way I maintain it is mroe and more and MORE influence bases.  Im thinkng there must be some fundamentals I have missed, like factories/research buildings/blanking on name, but those buildings for increasing the income of a colony are they NOT cumulitive, so more than one is simply a waste of money?  Im not sure what I am missing.

The races side of things, I can be in good relations, and have had it with no spies and maxed out spying, and see no one spreading rumors about me, or anything else, but seemingly out of nowhere, with a race (Good, Nuetral or evil) my standing with them PLUMMETS, and no amount of bribes or anythign else stops them.  Im confident in holding my own in a fight, but at times, im not trying to go in guns blazing.  What am I doing that causes this?  This frankly, frustrates the crud out of me.

 

Help me out here guys, love the game, want to love it more  :)

25,974 views 20 replies
Reply #1 Top

1 - look at the list of planets to see which ones are making losses.  Maintainance costs of the basic colony are significant early in the game;  new colonies make a loss for a long time.  Its not worth building many factories or labs (workers' costs) if you are on 60% production already.

Reply #2 Top

As Zarnick said, don't expand and build up too fast.  If you're not already, try colonizing only the highest quality planets.  Use the Federalist political party - they give a 20% economic boost.  Grab every economic mining resource you can and build them up to the max.  Increase your tax paying population by building farms and using morale resources and researching morale improving techs.  I normally play with the Super Breeder ability, as that shortens the time that a new colony takes to break even (as long as your tax rate isn't set so high that approval isn't 100% even on a new colony).  

Reply #3 Top

Forgot to mention - build recruiting centers to help with both economy and population growth, and see if you can trade with the Iconians for their Merchant Trade Centers - they give a 50% boost to a planet's economy.

Reply #4 Top

When I first started playing I took the advice I had read in the few guides there are and stayed away from placing farms on farm bonus tiles and to refrain from developing farming beyond Basic Farming. Now, every planet above PQ6 gets a farm, and if I have an entertainment bonus tile as well as a farm bonus tile, then I will build up to lvl 2 farming on the farm bonus.

What I end up with is around 50% of my planets have a pop of 10bn, another 25% will be in the 12-18bn range, and the remainder (usually the under PQ 6 planets) will be at 6bn. The net effect is to have taxes and tourism cover all of my expenses at the least, and have trade be over and above that. And yes, stock markets are cumulative. I develop most planets with this ratio: 1 entertainment building for every farm, 2x as many factories as research, and 1/2 as many stock markets as factories/research. So a typical PQ12 planet with no bonus tiles might look like this: colony tile, starport, farm, entertainment, four factories, two research, two stock markets. Bonus tiles can alter things a bit depending on what they are. There are, of course, many different ways to develop, this is just my way which seems to work for me.

When the inevitable happens towards the end of a game (whatever civs are left ally against you), my economy can stand on its own, while my enemy's econs go straight into the toilet because their trade with me was a hefty chunk of their income (and the first thing I target is their merchant fleet, dropping their trade income to 0).

As to the race relations, someone could be paying another civ to go to war with you. Take a look at the relations screen to see which factor +/- in your relations suddenly changed. 

Reply #5 Top

Another thing:

Please note that if you are loosing money, it can be also by the fact that your factories are producing something, which costs alot of money.

Try cancelling some projects on the starports if you are strapped for cash. You can resume them later,

Reply #6 Top

@Zarnick

How high of production should I be at?  Once im up and going, im normally at or around 75-85 depending on the galactic economy.

 

@ Publius of NV

I already look toward the biggest and best first.  However once other races start encroaching, I grab the other worlds within my borders, as I have found, when I don't im almost always in for a fight in short order.  I also usually end up being Neutral, if that matters.

I grab all the resource nodes I can get, as far as mining asteroids, I grab those quickly as well, they seem to help a good amount too.  Also, is Merchant Trading Centers a racial exclusive skill or can I research it as well (I dont have the tech tree memorized).

Also, what is your tax rate/approval normally, as a ballpark guestimate?

 

@Klaatoo

Interesting basic build idea.  What do you do for your heavy production needs?  For instance you are needing you 2 biggest chassis cap ships built in reasonable time frames, do you have worlds who are solely built for that purpose?

 

@dnzrx

Good point, I will keep that in mind

 

In general.

Forgive the ignorance, I found the downloadable 500 turn demo, loved it, bought it and tested the depth of the water with both feet, so to speak.  I learned by getting my @$$ kicked a few times, I always prefer to learn by my own mistakes rather than read a guide, but I am at the point where I guess more than anything else, I need clarification.

Does a factory assist with production on a planet in general?  For instance, I build my factory, it will then help get my economy buildings and other structures up faster?  If not, I have really misunderstood a few things.

What do I do to grow Tourism?  It seems to grow as I have more planets, and with my Influence stations (which I tend to build alot of.... worked well for me thus far).

Is it really that beneficial in the long run, to take smaller planets just to laod them up on economy boosting buildings?

Mid game, once i am established, I usually colonizedall the 5-8 building planets and from there I make all of the research, or alot of them and the rest econ.  Is that not a good idea?  And if not, why? 

I dont remember what my racial picks are atm, I amde a race I liked and ran with it, I figured I would have to revisit it, I know I run Universalists, as it has good all around buffs, didn't remember which other option I took super breeder or whatnot.  I know I was leaning towards heavy research, as that was how I dominated in MOO2, I know this isn't MOO2, but that was my BS space game I knew, so I tried to stay with a known good idea and learn the new game rm there.

Reply #7 Top

Regarding



 

1 - money, and 2 - racial interactions.


End of quote

 

Regarding money, racial abilities can help too. Out of those ten points we have at the game setup screen, I usually choose max for Economics and Research, leaving only 2 points. (I used to give them to morale or another attribute in Dread Lords. Now that "Luck" has become important for ship combats in TotA, I go for morale and luck.)

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Marauder_IIc, reply 6
How high of production should I be at? Once im up and going, im normally at or around 75-85 depending on the galactic economy.
End of Marauder_IIc's quote

  If you are at 60% production, you will have the same output at 100% production with 60% of your factories.  You could build market places instead of some of those factories.

  I don't know any reason for having less than 100% production except when I suddenly lose a large source of income and need to keep my treasury in credit for upgrading starbases or rush-buying.

Reply #9 Top

How exactly do I increase tourism?

 

 

Side note, I had never persued a tech victory before.  I just did and the tech victory description was HILARIOUS, all the clocks blinked 42......

Reply #10 Top

Tourism depends on your influence so either grow your population or research technologies that increase your influence. Personally, unless there's this event that quintuples tourism income, I've rarely found tourism income to be significant enough.

Regarding your question on a race's stance towards you: you should be able to see the positive and negative elements in your relation when looking at the race's details.
Examples of positive elements are: trade, economic / research / overall alliance, same ethical alignment, your military rating being significantly higher than theirs, high diplomacy, ...
Examples of negative elements: previous wars with them, different ethical alignment, having borders with them, your military being weaker than theirs, them distrusting you if you're being aggressive towards other races, ...

For your overall gameplay I've listed some recommendations below. While I'm definitely not the best or most experienced GalCiv II player out there, I do well on difficulty levels ranging from painful to crippling depending on the race and galaxy size.

1) First turn: set your production slider to 100% and lower the tax slider to get to 100% approval rating (for some races you may need to settle for 76% if you can't reach 100% approval).
Having 100% approval on a planet gives a bonus to population growth on that planet. The same goes for 76% approval but the bonus will be smaller.
A rule of thumb is that once my cash reserve is only sufficient to last 30-40 more weeks at the current spending level, I'll increase taxes at the expense of my approval rating. As long as my weekly balance is too negative, I don't spend anything on espionage yet.
I never lower my production slider below 100% unless I made an error of judgement and I'm getting too close to being 500bc in debt (if your debt is higher than that, your production is set to zero automatically until you're back above -500 bc)

2) In galaxies up to medium size, only build on 2-3 planets early on in the game. Colonize other planets with decent quality but don't build anything on them yet to reduce your expenses.
I usually get some production (factories) on my homeworld, add 1-2 morale buildings and as soon as possible an economic capital + some econ buildings (banks, trade centers, ...)
My second planet will be dedicated to the production of colony ships. Crucial here is to rush-buy some factories and a starport relatively early.
My third planet will be mostly dedicated to research (labs) though it's usually best to start with a factory as it increases your building speed.
For larger galaxies, I'll also build factories and a starport on a more distant planet as this will improve my colonization efforts.

3) Research: go for some basic techs first, the ones that give you bonuses to social / military production, morale, economy. Some speed bonus also helps to be able to grab planets before the AI reaches them.
Trade is also a good early tech to research as it allows you to build an economic capital.
Trade technologies and influence points (never more than 999 at a time) for other technologies or cash, especially with minor races. It's best never to trade any technologies that give your opponents a diplomatic bonus since that will hamper your future interactions with them.

4) Military: while I usually want to be the first to have military ships, I don't try to outclass the other ratings too much in military rating until my economy is sustainable (either running a small loss each turn or being in the green)... or until I want to go on the offensive.

Hoping this helps a little...

Reply #11 Top

Firstly, I play only DL so take that into consideration when reading my suggestions.

Secondly, the above recommendation about 100% production is quite true. I set it there as the first thing I do and never touch it again for the rest of the game.

As to what I do for warships sizes....I play mostly as the Yor and occasionally the Terrans. In neither case, especially as Yor do I bother with starships larger than mediums. My tactic usually depends on outproducing my opponent(s) so small and mediums are the rule as I can produce these faster than those who build BB's and Dreadnaughts. This is especially true once weapon techs get into the highest levels...and it costs 2-3 times as much to counter the top level weapons with the appropriate defense. I just pack my smalls and mediums with weapons and engines, and enough defense to withstand one hit. If my fleet goes down in flames, I can make more faster than my opponent and so I'm ready for round two, so-to-speak, before they are. I also use what I term "gunships" to greatly reduce my opponents biggest, "baddest" fleets. That is, a merchant hull crammed with weaponry and engines only.

I research the Mini bonuses to the max, and try for the Mini TG's before anyone else gets them so I can stuff "more on less". I find that, as the Yor, I need a minimum of 4-6 factories (Industrial Sectors eventually) to turn out a powerful small in one month or less. If I have factory bonus tiles, particularly the 300 and 700% variety, these become my planets for cranking out mediums, which I can do in one month or less (all figures for a 40% setting on the military slider...can be done quicker in times of emergency by setting it higher).

Also to note, I only play the Evil alignment for the bonus buildings to production and econ.

As noted, tourism income is rather small when compared to taxes and trade, but don't discount it. When I'm fully up-and-running, my tourism income can amount to 300-500bc per week or more depending on the situation and this really helps with the balance ledger, especially in times of high production needs.

Bottom line is that every one of my planets needs to be a money producer, some may be just barely in the black due to high maintainence, but nevertheless I want them all making money. There are, of course, exceptions, and thse are mainly bonus tile related. If I get a planet with a bunch of factory/research bonuses and nothing in the way of entertainment/farm bonuses, that may dictate that those colonists will have their noses to the grindstone building things and doing research ;-) 

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Marauder_IIc, reply 6
@ Publius of NV

I already look toward the biggest and best first. However once other races start encroaching, I grab the other worlds within my borders, as I have found, when I don't im almost always in for a fight in short order. I also usually end up being Neutral, if that matters.

I grab all the resource nodes I can get, as far as mining asteroids, I grab those quickly as well, they seem to help a good amount too. Also, is Merchant Trading Centers a racial exclusive skill or can I research it as well (I dont have the tech tree memorized).

Also, what is your tax rate/approval normally, as a ballpark guestimate?
End of Marauder_IIc's quote

Merchant Trade Centers are a racial exclusive to the Iconians.  I normally play as a custom race with the Terran tech tree, so whenever I can I try to trade with the Iconians for it. 

Since I'm playing as a custom race with super breeder ability, I try to keep my tax rates low to build up my population quickly.  I normally start out at a tax rate of 49%, and then when I have a fair number of colonies that could grow faster if their approval was at 100%, I drop it to 39%.  This is usually after I've been able to build an economic capitol and have established a few trade routes.  The 39% tax rate pretty much makes all newly colonized planets have an approval of 100% until they are close to their starting max population (before any farms).  I tend to end up with most planets having a population of 15B, with the home planet and any captured home planets at 16B, and any planet with class 20 or higher 18B (with the food distribution center).  I do not build farms on the food enhancement tiles.

I don't pretend to be the best GC2 player in the world, but this seems to work for me.  The only time I'm close to hurting for cash is if I haven't been able to claim any economic resources and haven't yet been able to build an economic capitol.

There are many others who keep their tax rates much higher than mine, but that doesn't play well with the super breeder ability.

Reply #13 Top

Most of the time, I keep the tax rates at 33%. Works for me in the fact the only times where I'm loosing money is when I do not have Adv. Market Centers up (which is early in the game), do not have huge populations (also early) , or if I have too big of a military (which happens on occasion).

 

Reply #14 Top

A handy tip if you're wondering whether to concentrate on building Embassies or Market Centres on a particular planet for tax or tourism income - check out the influence points gained from the planet itself by hovering over the ip indicator.  If it's 10 or more then, even with no other influence bonus, two embassies will net you at least 3 additional ips.  Two Cultural Exchange Centres would net you at least 5 additional ips.

 

Reply #15 Top

I am not really experienced (neither really talented), I am playing terran with UE. Racial advantage plus federalist political party plus economy research plus economic resources if you can grab. I leave new colonies only with the colony building (and currently with starport as it has no maintenance cost) till they reach 800m - 1b population where the economic buildings will become actually productive (research tiles are exceptions to the rule) and then place four of them. If there is nothing special on the planet fill it nearly completely with economic buildings. I read somewhere that tax above 35% is risky so I am afraid of raising it. Early on you will need an approval building on your capital only to keep it in line. (I have not tried whether the capital would actually revolt or not.) Decrease the spending only if you are in trouble (your cash reserve is enough only for ten turns) and then focus on getting out of it to increase the slider back to 100%. 

Mid game do trade and convince others to make an economic agreement towards you this way they will help you instead of each other. (This is (was, I am just too lazy to go into war and I switched off influence victory) my second game on challenging and mid game I had all but one major civilizations (and all the minor ones) to support my economy making more money from agreements than from trade. Add a level 1 farm to each (non capital) planet to increase base income by 25%. This is basically the time to decide whether you would care about approval rate or not. If so you might think of a more "advanced" governance form for economy bonus. Many manufacturing facilities might look nice but the war is a matter of money (and some interest). I dedicate one or max three planets (late game) for production, for the rest I add only one manufacturing facility after each ten quality (PQ 20 = 2 plant) - to help updating research or economy buildings. Keep your military close to average to avoid others seeing you as easy prey. Consider planets with at least one approval tile and quality >=15 to become population centers with two or equivalent farms and four or equivalent morale buildings.

Late game money is not an issue, with the moral technologies (bought and researched) and resources you will have two kind of planets: normal (15-16b population no approval building) and large (22-23b 4 approval buildings) all planets with approval rate at least 90%. If you do not care that much about morale then only a single type of (22-23b no approval building) around 70% approval.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting antibor, reply 15
... I read somewhere that tax above 35% is risky so I am afraid of raising it. Early on you will need an approval building on your capital only to keep it in line. (I have not tried whether the capital would actually revolt or not.) Decrease the spending only if you are in trouble (your cash reserve is enough only for ten turns) and then focus on getting out of it to increase the slider back to 100%...
End of antibor's quote

Having your taxes higher than 35% is not an issue, it all depends on how this affects morale on each of your planets.
In case of morale dropping below 46% there won't be any population growth on that planet anymore. If you go even more extreme (here I don't remember the cut-off point, roughly around 20%) your population even starts to shrink.

I would recommend to never decrease your production below 100% because then you risk falling behind compared to the AIs. Increasing taxes and trading techs / influence points for cash should keep you afloat for much longer than 10 turns. It should be possible to stay above -500 bc throughout the entire game without having to lower your production. However, playing around with the military / social / research sliders can make quite a difference on your costs if you're in a tight spot.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Noctilucus, reply 16
However, playing around with the military / social / research sliders can make quite a difference on your costs if you're in a tight spot.
End of Noctilucus's quote

Yeah, why is that?

I've noticed it, but I thought 1bc = 1 tp = 1 mp.  Why does shunting around the proportion of the spend result in a different total amount?

Reply #18 Top

Well, I thought production (employment?) slows down all areas while playing with the sliders slows down or speeds up specific areas. Is this not the case?

So if you have 24/24/24 ability with 100/33/33/34 sliders and no military project but ongoing social and research the social costs 7 and the research costs 8 (total 15). With 100/0/66/34 social costs 15, research 8 (total 23), with 100/100/0/0 neither social nor research costs (or progresses).

Reply #19 Top

Quoting irrevenant, reply 17
Why does shunting around the proportion of the spend result in a different total amount?
End of irrevenant's quote

   My guess is that production bonus applies only to the specific category's final/actual amount (so a planet/race social production bonus is only added to social production,  not when sliders move some of this production and not when the social production is added to military when there is no social project on a planet).  A United Planets law could be bringing in extra production somewhere.

  I've noticed in the economy tab that there are costs for "bonus production",  and that the total income can change by several hundered BCs by adjusting the sliders (usually more total income when the research slider is generally decreased).  I once did this recently to turn my economy to a profit from "-500BC in a few weeks".

Quoting antibor, reply 18
Well, I thought production (employment?) slows down all areas while playing with the sliders slows down or speeds up specific areas. Is this not the case?
End of antibor's quote

  According to the manual,  you are hiring and distributing the workers.  I don't know how the maximum total spending amount is calculated.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting irrevenant, reply 17
Yeah, why is that?

I've noticed it, but I thought 1bc = 1 tp = 1 mp.  Why does shunting around the proportion of the spend result in a different total amount?
End of irrevenant's quote

1 bc = 1 tp = 1mp is correct.
There is an impact from the "bonus production / research" (though I have no idea how that is calculated) but the major difference is coming from planets where you don't have activity in all 3 areas military / social / research like Antibor indicates. If I have a planet where I'm not building any ships or buildings, funding in those 2 areas will not be used, only the research money will be spent.

I think there's also an influence from focus: imagine many of your planets have a focus on research while they have military and social production ongoing. The more you go towards 0/0/100, the lower your spending should become since you're moving X points in social / military production to only 80% of X points in research.

The percentage chosen with major production slider is indeed multiplied with the 3 sliders below it. Setting the overall production to 50% will reduce the cost of your social, military production and research by half (and the output as well).