Tolmekian Tolmekian

Twilight: Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v3.51 Release 05-10-13

Twilight: Tolmekian's TechTree Fix v3.51 Release 05-10-13

Purpose of the mod:

 This mod addresses widespread errors in the TotA TechTree.xml files.  These errors pretty much broke many of the unique TechTrees, causing the AI to pursue a deeply flawed research strategy and outright preventing the research of many techs.  Part of the fix included rearranging a number of the TechTrees to fix the seemingly random arrangement of some techs and reduce the number of branches for the AI to get sidetracked on.  Along the way, I ended up fixing many UP issues, planetary improvements, starbase modules, and did some general improvement and balancing on individual techs.

This mod is a direct result of MarvinKosh's Space Weapons Fix Mod, which provided the inspiration.  A lot of my development commentary and good input from other modders working on their own fixes is in that topic.  Thanks MarvinKosh, Quaternus, deweyjohn, TOV, foxthree, qrtxian and all others for input and support.

 


05-10-13: v3.51 release

Update to fix some errors in v3.5. 

  • Because I forgot to mention for the 3.5 release: The Hyperion improvements (shipyard, shrinker, logistics, resupply) are now all Galactic Achievements instead of Super Projects.  No more collecting shrinkers :o, it really matters who builds these things.
  • I would also like to add a special thanks to Gaunathor for extensive proofreading, playtesting, and feedback.  His contributions have played a big part in me continuing the work, fixing/improving even more than I originally intended, and finally putting out a (more or less) finished product after all this time.  It's fair to say that without him, this mod wouldn't be nearly what it is.  Thanks.

04-28-13: v3.5 release

 

Here it is, the more or less finished product after all this time.  It's been about a year since I put this project down, so I'm a bit fuzzy on what exactly I did before coming back to finish it up.  I'm pretty sure I've got the major things nailed down, though.  Let's see:

 

  • Fixed those minor but embarrassing typos that made it into v3.0
  • Standardized the cost vs maintenance vs output ratios for the various improvement.  Now every race can be content with their own improvements and not shop around for the obvious best.  You can now upgrade to Industrial Sectors without fretting about the inefficiencies.
    • In general, costs went down, sometimes a lot.  Maintenance costs were also reduced or eliminated on many improvements.  No more taking years upon years to develop a planet only to have the game end immediately thereafter.

 

  • Made starting techs that allow a bottom-tier improvement for many of the improvement lines.  The idea being to allow the AI access to each type of improvement and allow balanced planet development - no filling up planets before researching basic improvements.
    • eg. Races that use the "normal" economic structures (banks, stock markets, etc) now start with Market Economics, which allows construction of the Market Center.
    • If you make a custom tech tree, this allows you to select the base techs for your tree without needing conflicting "history" techs to unlock basic improvements.
  • Rounded out the Temple morale improvements, so Altarians and Drath have a progression of decent improvements unlocked by various techs, starting with Spiritual Happiness.
  • Did away entirely with farms, charging stalks, etc.  Replaced them with a universal, one-per-planet improvement that gives a bonus to pop growth and %food.
  • Did away with Advanced Extreme Colonization techs.  Now only one tech is required for each type of extreme planets.
  • Now every tech tree includes the Government techs and Planetary Defense Techs.  No good reason for some races to go without.
  • Omega Research Center: Now with more awesome.  No longer just a watered down tech capital, the Omega Research Center is a Galactic Achievement worthy of the title.
    • Speaking of watered down Tech Capital . . . I watered down the Tech Capital.  Kind of.  Bonus from 100% to 50%, but it now generates 14tp on its own.  Which leads to the next point . . .
  • All improvements that give a bonus to manufacturing or research now also generate their own mp or tp proportional to the bonus.  This is to counteract the sometimes painful misplacement of these improvements by the AI.
  • The evil races (Drengin, Korath, Yor) got a lot of attention during 3.5 development due to general lack of competitiveness.
    • Now have access to all 4 types of capitals (economic, technological, political, manufacturing) or an equivalent structure.
    • Drengin got a couple new unique techs - Superior Warships and Fleet Domination - which boost stats and unlock Galactic Achievements to speed their conquest of the galaxy.
    • Korath have a new Galactic Achievement - the Aul Incinerator.  Out with the one-per-planet suckfest and in with something that you'll actually want.
    • Don't think the Yor got any new stuff, but some stuff is easier to get and the Manufacturing Vortex and Distributed Energy Matrix got pretty big buffs.
  • Sprinkled a couple speed bonuses in the basic techs to speed things up a bit.  Basically, the AI never designs ships with engines and ends up late game with ships that move 3 or 4 per turn.  Now we're looking at 6 or 7.
  •  Uuuuuh . . . I think that's the major stuff.
  • Enjoy!

TechTree Fix v3.51 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here.  If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the  AI's ability.  I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade.  Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing.  They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them.  It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII MinorsThe MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors.  Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix".  That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload.  So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.

TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not?  If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod.  Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both.  Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice.  I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work.  (famous last words.)


03-04-12: v3.0 Release

v3.0 continues the work, this time focusing on starbase modules and planetary improvements, particularly Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods.  Also included is a wonderful conversation mod, kindly contributed by qrtxian.  His mod fixes the errors in the GC2_Conversations.xml, so now you can enjoy all the unique dialogue as intended.

Highlights

  • All fleet modules that were removed in v2.0 are restored.  That's the fleet attack/defense and fleet warp bubbles, etc.
  • Entire Starbase Fortification branch removed.  The attack, defense, and assist modules were spread uniformly among the appropriate weapons and defense techs.
  • Enhanced Battle Stations starbase modules and added equivalent Starbase Defenses modules.
  • No more easy pickings, expect to see some well armed starbases.
  • Addressed a limitation where the AI will only use the first 100 starbase modules in the xml file.  Rearranged, removed, and edited starbase modules to ensure the most basic and useful modules are AI accessible.
  • Evil weapons and good defenses are now available at every weapon/defense level, instead of only at the end.
  • Extensive changes to Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods.  I went after them with the idea that every one should be a "must have".  Costs reduced and AI values increased to ensure the AIs actually have a chance to build them, given their inability to plan planetary improvements.
  • Edit to add - All the trade goods now have a unique icon rather than a stack of boxes.  Except the Xinathium Hull Plating.  I figured that would still come in boxes.    I chose from among the unused icons that come with the game, so they may not be perfect.  They are, in my opinion, better than the boxes.
  • Two previously unused Galactic Achievements brought into play: the Life Force Extractor and Historical Preserve.  Two new GAs introduced: the Benevolent Research Center and Trade Nexus.  All four new GAs are unlocked by ethics techs.
  • Introduced new ethics techs to split up the multiple GAs and SPs unlocked by them.  Ethics techs now also provide a small bonus, so those who don't get the GAs don't waste their research.
  • Further optimizing and balancing.  My last playtests were some of the most balanced I've ever seen.  Sure, sometimes there are runaway monsters and pitiful also-rans, but overall it's pretty good.
  • All races are still set to AIPersonality 11, or Generic.  The Altarians, Arceans, and Korx default to their unique AIP when set to 11.  You can still use AIP 8 (Thalan, Human, Drath, Krynn) and 7 (Drengin, Korath, and Yor) if you want to mix things up, but there are special considerations.  First, AIP 7 is flawed in that it won't colonize outside of its influence sphere.  In order to stand a chance, you need to use Abundant Planets, Abundant Habitables, Abundant or Common Stars, and Tight of Loose Clusters.  Then, you need to Ctrl-n until you get a galaxy where the AIP 7s have enough stars within their influence.  Other than that, AIP 7 and 8 will perform pretty well.  Their research is somewhat flawed (no Xeno Ethics, for example) and they're hyper militant, but they seem to compete well.
  • Edit to add - While trying to improve the Arceans, I tested their TechTree with regular engines instead of their unique navigation techs.  I kept the navigation techs in the standard Arcean TechTree, but also left the Arcean-Eng tree in.

I think that's most of it.  Without further ado, here it is:

TechTree Fix v3.0 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here.  If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the  AI's ability.  I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade.  Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing.  They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them.  It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII MinorsThe MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors.  Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix".  That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload.  So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.

TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not?  If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod.  Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both.  Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice.  I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work.  (famous last words.)


Update 01-07-12: v2 Release

After nearly a year, here it finally is.  Details can be found in this post.

v1.1 Notes:

  • Extract the zipped folders into: C:\Program Files\Stardock Games\GalCiv2\Twilight\mods  This is the pathway for my Impule-downloaded version.  In any case, put it into the mods folder in the Twilight folder.
  • The TechTree Fix is optimized for AIPersonality 11 (Altarian, Arcean, Korx, and Generic).  AIPs 7 and 10 are pretty much broken, and AIP 8 has certain issues that require me to do another round of optimization and testing for any race that I want to set as 8.  I set all races to AIP 11 in the mod.  You can change the setting, but it will change the way the AI pursues research.
  • My detailed change log is included in the folder.  I'd include it here for everyone to see, but it's a 15 page Word file.  It lists all the changes that I made to the techs, improvements, modules and issues.  It also includes every iteration of AIValue for each tech, so you can see just how many times I had to tweak some of them.
  • Additonal Highlights:
    • Fixes broken UP Issue "Add two trade routes".  It proposed 2 trade routes, then called for a vote on 0,1,2,3, or 4.  That vote was broken and didn't work.  It's now yes/no for 2 trade routes.
    • Restores 3 Galactic Achievements by fixing Tech Requirements: The Galactic Stock Exchange, Galactic Monument, and Hyper-Distribution Center are once again available with the proper techs.
    • Fixes error in some starbase modules that caused attack bonus to be misstated in the starbase summary.
    • Fixes Temple of Neutrality, which was a cut-and-paste of Temple of Righteousness.  That means the tourism penalty affected good races.  Now it affects neutral civs and not good ones.
    • Fixes Planetary Defense improvement so it now actually gives +25% Planetary Defense.
    • Fixes a number of errors in descriptions of techs and improvements.  Unfortunately, I didn't fix the error in the Temple of Righteousness/Neutrality/Evil descriptions.  They don't affect trade income, only tourism.
    • Fixes a number of errors in the TechTree xml that prevented the entire TechTree from being displayed in the xml viewer.
    • There's a few more in there.

 

1,778,167 views 722 replies +1 Loading…
Reply #576 Top

Regarding the tech trading with the AI, I've found something interesting:

https://sites.google.com/site/mabusraeen/extra/modders-resource/appendix-2-tech-trading

He's got some other interesting findings. I've tweaked my AI values in the tech tree to better match what he says there, but didn't have time for a play test.

Reply #577 Top

Quoting MarvinKosh, reply 574
It's the auto-upgrade and the food multiplier tile that messes up the AI.

Basically the AI will happily research and auto-upgrade all the way to the end of the Xeno Farming line of improvements, regardless of its situation.  If it has two or even three farms on a planet, it will upgrade all of them to Advanced Farming at (by default) +7mt a go.  If it builds just one farm on a bonus tile, then a massive population cap is similarly the result.

This in turn creates a very unhappy population which are easily conquered using the propaganda tactic.  But also, it pulls down the AI's approval rating, which it then attempts to fix by reducing taxation.  The AI doesn't actively consider other strategies like filling up transports or just considering the median approval rating (what its approval is on the vast majority of its normal-population worlds) when deciding on a tax rate.

That's why in most cases it's best to make farms a one per planet improvement and a percent bonus to food rather than an addition.
End of MarvinKosh's quote

 

Can't you make AI identify the problem planet and just spam happiness buildings on it? That is what I do when I have bonus food fields, I hate to waste them :P Then the planet makes lots of money and is great for buying transports.

Reply #578 Top

Quoting bbr91, reply 576
Regarding the tech trading with the AI, I've found something interesting:

https://sites.google.com/site/mabusraeen/extra/modders-resource/appendix-2-tech-trading

He's got some other interesting findings. I've tweaked my AI values in the tech tree to better match what he says there, but didn't have time for a play test.
End of bbr91's quote

Wow, it's like the long-lost twin of my own modding efforts.

Reply #579 Top

Quoting LD1977, reply 577
Can't you make AI identify the problem planet and just spam happiness buildings on it? That is what I do when I have bonus food fields, I hate to waste them Then the planet makes lots of money and is great for buying transports.
End of LD1977's quote

Love to be able to do that.  Unfortunately the AI uses up its tiles quite quickly, it does not demolish or keep tiles in reserve like we can.  So without being able to add new AI code, all we're able to do is work with what we've got.

With the right programming and the ability to choose whether or not to upgrade improvements, the AI might be able to optimise a planet with a food bonus tile.  Since Stardock's plans for GalCiv seem to be on ice, I wouldn't expect any code changes along those lines to happen, at least not any time soon.

Reply #580 Top

Here's a question:  When a new minor (e.g. Vegans) comes in, it has all the player tech.  Are those techs susceptible to trade to AIs? 

 

Reply #581 Top

Quoting DMF, reply 581
Here's a question:  When a new minor (e.g. Vegans) comes in, it has all the player tech.  Are those techs susceptible to trade to AIs?
End of DMF's quote

Depends on the techs. If the techs are set to 'can't be traded/stolen', then the minor will not be able to trade them. Just like how it is with a major.

 

 

Reply #582 Top

Quoting DMF, reply 581
Here's a question:  When a new minor (e.g. Vegans) comes in, it has all the player tech.  Are those techs susceptible to trade to AIs? 

 
End of DMF's quote

I'm only guessing, but it may also depend on whether you have tech brokering on or off.  I don't know if it will count them as techs original to the new minor, or as if they were actually gained from the major and thus non-brokerable.

 

Back to farms, it all comes down to the AI lacking any ability whatsoever to think long-term or assess the current situation.  There are two major problems I wanted to address.  One problem is the way the AI can overuse farms or misuse the bonus tiles, as has been discussed.  The other problem is quite the opposite.  When the AI takes its sweet time researching farming, it can end up with half or all of its planets filled up and no place to build farms.

The bottom line is that the AI simply can't use farms effectively.  The only way I see to fix the problem is to remove choice and chance so the AI can't screw it up.

Reply #583 Top

It seems to me that even OPP farms don't solve the problem of managing super-tiles.   And too bad you can't key a farm build to planet class.  I (almost) never build a farm on a planet of Q < 11.  The rule would work for buggers, too, if it could be made to stick.  I also key farm build and tile use to the presence of a Morale bonus tile, but that would be too much to ask, I suppose.

 

Is there a way to key the moral bonus assigned to an improvement to a non-morale bonus tile?  E.g. make a Farm tile that increases food and morale bonus when it's set on a food bonus tile?

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #584 Top

Quoting DMF, reply 584
It seems to me that even OPP farms don't solve the problem of managing super-tiles.
End of DMF's quote

They can, if you use a percentage bonus instead of the regular integer value. This makes the food bonus tiles entirely useless, but that is kinda the point of the change. The bonus tiles are just too much of a liability, when it comes to the AI.

Quoting DMF, reply 584
Is there a way to key the moral bonus assigned to an improvement to a non-morale bonus tile? E.g. make a Farm tile that increases food and morale bonus when it's set on a food bonus tile?
End of DMF's quote

No, the bonus tiles are hardcoded.

Reply #585 Top

Quoting qrtxian, reply 578

Quoting bbr91, reply 576Regarding the tech trading with the AI, I've found something interesting:

https://sites.google.com/site/mabusraeen/extra/modders-resource/appendix-2-tech-trading

He's got some other interesting findings. I've tweaked my AI values in the tech tree to better match what he says there, but didn't have time for a play test.

Wow, it's like the long-lost twin of my own modding efforts.
End of qrtxian's quote

I think most of us modders went through this. Learning things the hard way. I figured I'd make a site for it so it's there for others to use.

 

Reply #586 Top

Quoting MabusAltarn, reply 586
I think most of us modders went through this. Learning things the hard way. I figured I'd make a site for it so it's there for others to use.
End of MabusAltarn's quote

Thank you for your effort!

Reply #587 Top

Quoting MabusAltarn, reply 586

I think most of us modders went through this. Learning things the hard way. I figured I'd make a site for it so it's there for others to use.
End of MabusAltarn's quote

Nice work! I made several things quite differently than you, but it is always interesting to see, how other people approach the same problem.

 

By the way, I had a look through the old dev journals recently (nostalgia and all that), and found out, that the way the tech trees work for the minor races is intentional. The change was made during the TotA beta, at a time, when the minors didn't had a tech tree of their own. I totally forgot about that. The minors originally used the default tech tree, which consist of all techs in the game. This means, that they had access to racial specific techs, weapons, improvements, and so on. It wasn't very well liked, and Stardock finally decided to change the minors, so they lost access to techs specific to the major races in the current game. Some time later, the minors got their own tech tree, but the change was kept in place. I have no idea, if that was intentional or not, but I would classify it as bug now, because it seriously cripples the minors, depending on what major are in the game.

Reply #588 Top

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 588
I have no idea, if that was intentional or not, but I would classify it as bug now, because it seriously cripples the minors, depending on what major are in the game.
End of Gaunathor's quote

I see no issue in that. The minors are intended to be treated as minors, they are good for trading and eventually conquering a good planet and that's about it. Maybe for people playing with colonizing minors this could be an issue, but for me the minors are good as they are now. I play with "smart minors" btw.

Reply #589 Top

Quoting bbr91, reply 589
I see no issue in that. The minors are intended to be treated as minors, they are good for trading and eventually conquering a good planet and that's about it. Maybe for people playing with colonizing minors this could be an issue, but for me the minors are good as they are now. I play with "smart minors" btw.
End of bbr91's quote

The problem is, that, depending on what major races are in the game, the minors lose access to certain techs. This can prevent them from researching factories, labs, markets, morale improvements, weapons, defenses and more. I have nothing against minors being weaker than major races and having certain limits to their abilities, but this is crippling them even more. This is the biggest downside of TotA, in my opinion, because the minors in DL and DA don't have this problem.

Reply #590 Top

It's possible to create a tech tree for minors which doesn't contain any major race techs, but it wouldn't be much to look at.  It's on my to-do list, but I have another idea that I'll try first. :)

Reply #591 Top

Quoting MarvinKosh, reply 591
It's possible to create a tech tree for minors which doesn't contain any major race techs, but it wouldn't be much to look at.  It's on my to-do list, but I have another idea that I'll try first.
End of MarvinKosh's quote

Yes, it's possible, but you can't give them any new starbase modules without going over the limit. Which is why I ultimately decided against doing it. There is not much point in giving the minors their own tech tree, if they lose one of their main assets. Too bad for the Dark Yor and Snathi, though, as I gave them minor versions of the Yor and Drengin tech tree respectively.

 

 

Reply #592 Top

The other problem is that when a random new minor race is rolled during the game, it doesn't use the minor race tech tree.  It seems to use whatever tech tree the human player has.  That's something that can't be fixed with a mod.

Reply #593 Top

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 590

Quoting bbr91, reply 589I see no issue in that. The minors are intended to be treated as minors, they are good for trading and eventually conquering a good planet and that's about it. Maybe for people playing with colonizing minors this could be an issue, but for me the minors are good as they are now. I play with "smart minors" btw.
The problem is, that, depending on what major races are in the game, the minors lose access to certain techs. This can prevent them from researching factories, labs, markets, morale improvements, weapons, defenses and more. I have nothing against minors being weaker than major races and having certain limits to their abilities, but this is crippling them even more. This is the biggest downside of TotA, in my opinion, because the minors in DL and DA don't have this problem.
End of Gaunathor's quote

I'm honestly not certain what the issue is either, since the "default" minor tech tree doesn't have any unique techs to be denied. This is an issue for modding, but it's hardly crippling in normal play.

Reply #594 Top

Quoting qrtxian, reply 594
I'm honestly not certain what the issue is either, since the "default" minor tech tree doesn't have any unique techs to be denied. This is an issue for modding, but it's hardly crippling in normal play.
End of qrtxian's quote

The "unique" techs depend on the major races playing in the game. If you are playing a one-on-one game between Arceans and Drengin, for example, Industrial Revolution, Traditional Research, Planetary Improvements, the Xeno Industrial Theory techs, Xeno Research and all other lab techs after, the Xeno Entertainment techs, the Xeno Business techs, Space Militarization and a couple others, are "unique" techs (only one major race has access to them) and get removed from the minor tech tree. The minors will not be able to research any tech, that comes after the ones, that got removed, because the tech-requirement will remain. In a game like this, the minors will be unable to research weapons and defenses on their own, nor can they build any kind of lab, factory or morale improvement.

Reply #595 Top

I'd like to use the mod here, but am worried about the tech trading so will likely try to make my own edits if there is a problem.  How many of the AIVs were changed? Is it that bad? Weren't there still problems with tech trading in the base version and high AIVs?

Anyone know how the willingness to trade works? I see nothing on the forums except 0 not willing and 100 willing. 

 

Reply #596 Top

Another question which will help me nail down what I want to do. How much of the AIV changing was because something needed to be fixed and how much was just watching the AI and playing around?  If you raised everything I'd suspect its possible to back out your aiv changes without completely breaking everything. 

Reply #597 Top

I just played a quick immense game and stopped after I was ready to go to war. 2 years later no one had researched any weapons (except for the Bulrathi who picked up mass drivers just before the end of year 3).  Everyone had advanced levels of the colonization techs, trade, diplo and the first level of econ techs.

1) I assume moving the appropriate AIs onto 8 will change this. Why not default this? Nothing really happens if no one is out extorting people and declaring wars.

2) Does the +10% PQ cause everyone to go after Extreme Colonization more?  Or is this just an 11 thing? On immense maps this is always going to be a waste of turns for the AIs. 

3) I don't like turns being wasted on advanced colonization. So yay for removing it - there is no way for the AI to know it should research this.

4) I really hate the tech trading thing, but really trading feels wonky in the base game anyway so I'm reconsidering the worth of worrying about it. 

 

Reply #598 Top

I usually always have tech trading off because I know how badly I could abuse it.  Sell my techs for ten thousand bc, next turn buy a battleship and declare war.  Yeah, that's always worth a few giggles. :)

Reply #599 Top

Quoting Grashopa, reply 596
How many of the AIVs were changed?
End of Grashopa's quote

Virtually all of them.

Quoting Grashopa, reply 597
How much of the AIV changing was because something needed to be fixed and how much was just watching the AI and playing around?
End of Grashopa's quote

Well, as far as AIV changing, it was done based on observation of AI research patterns.  So, you could say that it was all done both as a result of observing the AI and because it needed to be fixed.  I'm afraid that addressing the problem will take much more than simply dialing the numbers back by a set amount.  Version 4.0, perhaps.

Quoting Grashopa, reply 598
I just played a quick immense game and stopped after I was ready to go to war. 2 years later no one had researched any weapons (except for the Bulrathi who picked up mass drivers just before the end of year 3).  Everyone had advanced levels of the colonization techs, trade, diplo and the first level of econ techs.

1) I assume moving the appropriate AIs onto 8 will change this. Why not default this? Nothing really happens if no one is out extorting people and declaring wars.

2) Does the +10% PQ cause everyone to go after Extreme Colonization more?  Or is this just an 11 thing? On immense maps this is always going to be a waste of turns for the AIs. 

3) I don't like turns being wasted on advanced colonization. So yay for removing it - there is no way for the AI to know it should research this.

4) I really hate the tech trading thing, but really trading feels wonky in the base game anyway so I'm reconsidering the worth of worrying about it.
End of Grashopa's quote

Thanks for the feedback.  Weapons development late in year 2?  Sounds about right for an immense galaxy.  Was the colony rush dying out, or still running strong? The AI doesn't usually start seriously gearing up for war until there aren't any planets to grab; however, because it should have a strong base to start with, its war effort may surprise you.    I suggest you proceed with your game and see how it goes.

1) AIP 8 is the warmonger, but it has issues that make it less desirable to build the game around.  Remember, AIP 11 is the generic personality.  This is manifested in less apparent bias toward particular research strategies.  So, it was much easier for me to manipulate the research behavior in predictable ways.  AIP 8, on the other hand, comes with a slew of biases designed to differentiate it from the generic personality.  A proclivity to focus on weapons tech and building a huge military are a couple.  A near absolute aversion to Colonization Category techs is another.  I actually started this project with AIP 8 as the default, but switched to 11 after utter failure to curb the 8's hyper-militarism and grapple with its other research biases.

2)  Part of the AIP 11 strategy is going for the extreme planets.  Why would that be a waste in an immense galaxy?  Because there are still normal planets to grab when they research it?   It's not a total loss, as the extreme planets have a higher average PQ, and grabbing them early can help.  Besides, there's only so much that can be done to influence exactly when the AI researches a given tech.  A difference in AIV of 1 - the minimum - can be the difference between obsession with researching a tech and never researching it at all.  For all the vaunted ability of the AI to adapt to circumstances, it demonstrates almost zero ability to take actual game conditions into account.  Given these things to work with, I aimed for a generally balanced research strategy that would result in techs being researched in a decent order relative to the other techs.  There's nothing I can do to influence how the AI behaves with respect to the galaxy around it.

 

To answer your question fully, I'm not sure to what extent the actual bonus given by a tech influences the AI decision on researching it.  I think little, if any.  In any case, I did plenty of testing with the bonus added and the final AIV takes that into account.

3) Thanks.  I got tired of the massive inefficiency of AIs sitting on yellow planets.

4) Yeah.  Like I said, maybe v4.0.

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As an update, v3.x is pretty much ready to go, with the exception of the farming issue we've been kicking around.  I'm ruminating on the solution.

 

I suppose another solution might be to do away with farms entirely.  Is it really so great to require techs and buildings to increase  population?  Simply have the initial colony support 14-16b pop and be done with it.  Maybe have the farming techs give +%pop growth and maybe some morale to help with the higher pops.

There are still a couple Super Projects and Galactic Achievements that give +%pop (in my mod, at least).  Those would need to be looked at, but that would be an easier task than anything else.  Hmmm . . . I think I may have stumbled upon my solution just now.