Zero Year Win Club 2011

Actually your strategy would be very fitting to a Breeder-ARC:

It would make sense, esp. in a Tiny Galaxy. You could support a lot of Troop Transports then; just keep a bunch of empty Cargo Hulls ready to upgrade them all to Fast Troop Transports when the time is ready.

Are you using a Fast-LongRange-1ATT-Cargo Hull very very early on to shoot down all your opponents Colony Ships? Those pesky AI always want to colonize YOUR worlds!!! Don't let em

BTW I forgot, make sure you play "Very Fast" Research-speed exclusively.

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I might try out the super breeder pretty soon here, it does sound quite fitting.

I actually try to ignore the planets early on, figuring that the money lost in getting out colony ships is better spent on transports/spores. I could try to just stake out a few planets with a fighter...but if the enemy got through it could be a waste...Then again, if I am going for pop I might need those planets early...

I know I should have moved to very fast research by now but I just can't pull the trigger...Different worries that 1)the AI will hit weapons too quickly, 2)the new pace may just throw me off. I'm sure I'll get around to it pretty soon.

My last game finally had some minor races thrown into the mix (I didnt realize that by leaving it on random the game was always choosing '0' in a tiny galaxy) but my score was less than appealing...something around 21000. Time to fine-tune this process a bit...

Final note on getting fighters out there...I have found that combining the Drengin special ability with the Altarians as opponents has its merits. As long as you can find one planet that the altarians have left unprotected, you can rush straight for transports and forget the turn lost researching a weapon. The transport will hit, cause war with Altarians and a few other, you get around 6 ships. Break those off from their fleets and send one to each desired area. I have found this to save a few weeks and sometimes just enough bc to buy one last transport...warning though, if done too early this can destroy the economy.

-Scanian8

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In DL I did it like this: I would Control-N until the AI was really near to me, or pushed in a corner of the map. I always choose Thalans as opponent because he only has one planet (and so, he can only research 1 tech in a turn.). First thing I researched was weapons, and as I had chosen a race that already had IonDrive I would simply upgrade a Cargo Hull to a fast Interceptor, which I did send towards my enemies HW. First thing I'll kill was his FlagShip, and all other ships that would emerge from him subsequently too - so that leaves me only his HW for invasion later.

However, sometimes he spout out Colonizers really fast, and my Interceptor had a hard time. As a pre-caution I would colonize those planets that are close to him - and leave one planet in my or near my system open. So the Colonizers that escaped my Interceptor would head straight toward me - into their doom.

Yeah, the chance is there that he'll have a 1ATT Figher on his system sometimes, which can really break the game because a ship in orbit will get a 25% weapon bonus, and it might not be killable. That's one downside to this.. however, the AI will never match your tech-advantage, so if you carefully pre-plan it, this can be solved.

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Tried the vanilla Torains just to get a feel for where I wanted to go with their super ability and the score came out to 26250 with 2 suicidal opponents...I just picked a plan and ran with it again, hoping for thoughts of if this is a good technique or pointless...The game also could have gone significantly better if I had not just been testing the idea out. My HW had no research bonuses and both enemies were very far away.

The general plan ran along the lines of actually boosting the population for as long as I possibly could. I ran at 100% approval almost the entire game by sending out transports from my HW and lease-buying 1 morale building. The very first building I put up on any planet was actually the Harvester. I came up with this idea when my sister planet had a +200% research so I figured I evened out by building harvester first on HW and school first on the sister planet. I even went a step further and focused on building recruiting centers right after the harvesters to increase the growth. I had all this planned so that when I came to a crash on morale that I could raise taxes enough to stay afloat a few more weeks but that point never came.

Final social score with all that concentration- 1200ish...so, was it worth it or should I stick to spores? For now I'm gonna give it a few more goes from different angles but I don't think the social score will really jump up that much more. Maybe I need to focus in another area instead...

edit: again, all these things at normal tech

-Scanian8

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Well, your HW can support 16b people by default - the harvester will up that to 19b; but this isn't really necessary. Because that high you'll faceing a severe moral-problem then. You're better of launching Big Colony-Ships all the while from your homeworld to colonize as many planets as you can. The colonized planets should be able to fastly develop and by that, commit both to Soc- and Econscore.

When planets are over ~5b ppl you can built some cheap Econ-structures there, too.

But beforeahead, built only schools. Torians are weak on research - so you'll have to select Technologists, and put all points into research and economy solely. That's those two things you can do - get points from research and/or tax-income. Pop isn't sufficient enough alone, although a high pop is always required to get a good Econ/Tax-income.

The Torian tree is full of techs that will give you a civ-wide bonus - if you can, research them if they are within reach. For example, Planetary Improvements or Xeno Economics is important, but also this line of techs that give +5% to research on all techs. If you'll have problems doing this take the research speed a bit up.

And think about what would be best for your enemies. For example, those Arceans are damn lame in colonizing (with their -10 speed), and vice versa, avoid opponents who have speed or, the Super Isolationist Yor. Once you've selected your opponents attribute them theri points - usually an economic outlay is best.

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Completely forgot that my original idea was supposed to revolve around getting colonists out there... Just got too focused on population too early.

When I do these quick run-throughs I always forget to analyze what the building's actual output is...I had just remembered that I liked Torian tech. I had assumed it was the research output but its the cheap maintenance...and the classical names.

My line of thinking held that these minimal bonuses wouldn't be worth the waste of the few turns I have to research the important techs...then again my soldiering gets unstoppable by a certain point and I could spend a few of those turns elsewhere...

I have been taking the Thalans as they just can't seem to get rid of their money fast enough. That combines with their terrible diplomacy and I can rake in the cash off of them. Hadn't tried the Arceans but they are coming up next! Great tip at the end there, I never even thought of boosting those areas for my own benefit...

Speaking of econ buildings...these are to hold off the inevitable crash...correct? I almost feel that I could push as hard as I have in my normal games and still keep my economy alive with the super-breeder...

-Scanian8

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Quoting Scanian8,

reply 106

Speaking of econ buildings...these are to hold off the inevitable crash...correct? I almost feel that I could push as hard as I have in my normal games and still keep my economy alive with the super-breeder...

Yes, exactly. They give you more money for the next turns, which you can then burn into research as well. Usually in a ZYW nobody would bother, but if you're going after Breeder & pop, and prolonging the game a bit until late y0, then they're worth it.

If you have researched everything you need to finish the game you could also consider focusing on building econ-structures only. You get more money from it, which you can use to rush even more Econ-structures by. And so on and on. That will start a rollercoaster-effect which gives you the power to simply buy everything you need.

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For some reason my newest high score won't post, 30450 ...but I tried a custom race with super breeder and maxed econ+morale+research. Used the Altarian tech tree (not really sure what is best, still feeling it out...for some reason got blocked by the metaverse for using the same statistics only Yor tech tree...)

Game was actually really set for me to score high on, 2 100% research tiles and 3 planets in sight from the start. Got out the colonizers and what-not...normal game other than my creativity never hit. Kept approval at 100% for as long as possible. When that locked out I kept my next best planet at 100% for as long as possible. Used transports to shuttle, then off to attack, but built a few too many, could have saved some money there. Once the second planet couldn't hold 100% I checked what I could do and found I could hold HW over 20% and actually make 25bc per turn so held this for a while. Game went on and once econ crashed I went back to 0% taxes.

As I said, it was my highest scoring game yet, but those few weeks of taxing to actually make money ruined my social score. The balance came back from my new econ score. Back to fine-tuning...And these things better start posting...

Getting down the econ research tree in time seems nearly impossible as of right now...where are you dropping off your soldiering research? Beeline to mass drivers then move on?

-Scanian8

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I was hoping to give something new on this post...but after a few variations on the breeding idea, I have 3 games with the exact same score, 30450...looks like this strategy is starting to hit a wall, but I refuse to give up on it just yet.

-Scanian8

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Ha - my first Tiny TA ZYW:

... a new personal record!

Scanian, did you notice yet that in TA you can trade your influental points against bcs, as long as you keep them below 1000?

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@Maiden666- Congrats Thanks for the tip, knew that one though...pretty sure I wouldn't have survived a lot of these games without it. I've even gone so far as selling tech to my bankrupted minors for IP in order to sell my new IP to the Thalans (Horrible diplomacy + extreme bc surplus is a great thing).

31500 is where I stand at this point. I even replayed this game out to the very last week in order to max out population everywhere. In the meantime I even captured all the minor civs' planets. My social score was incredible and the other two categories didn't change much but my score was lower...seems speed is the best option so far. I haven't figured out a way to buy/sell ships as I have heard of others doing (probably not TA). I think I could hit 35000...Maybe 38000...with a good start, but I think I need to change my strategy. At some point soldiering (I am always WAY overpowered) and taxes need to be fine tuned.

-Scanian8

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My experience with those prolonged ZYW's (until 22nd 12 y0) is that the (Soc-)score from pop alone isn't sufficient enough. But a high pop can support a good Econ-score, so you may want to try to raise your pop (with Breeder) during the first 6-8 months of the game. And then maximally raising taxes, so that all of your planets are in the red (but not below 20%) and then built only Econ-structures or try to make some research again.

At some time in the game you'll reach a point where you could easily end the game, isn't it? From that point on, *if* you decide to further play, you could occasionally backcheck if your score is still increasing, or if it stagnant or withdrawing. Simply quicksave, retire and multiply the defeat-score *14. The result will reflect a Military Win. Doing this, say, every 4 turns can give you a good inkling when it would be best to end the game.

The "fine-tune"/ handling of taxes is pretty easy. There are only two ways that are of any value:

1. Maximum Tax for Econ-income. Never higher than 79%, and always so low that, at least, 20% approval on worst planet.

2. Lowered Tax so an overall approval-rate of 100% on all planets - for popgrow.

The only decision you'll have to make is when you should swap for 1 to 2 and vice versa. E.g. in the very beginning of a game 1. is best because you'll desperately need the cash until you can speak to the AI. Later, when you have acquired some planets 2, is okay, so that there can be popgrowth everywhere. And once the pop is built, return to 1.

That's basically it, you'll be surprised in an Gigantic all-abundant it's exactly the same.

One last note, going for 45% approval rate, or 75%, or 98% etc pp is NO good option. Does sacrifice too much along its line. You either have 100% or everywhere.

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New Personal Best- 9 Suicidal opponents on a Tiny map, 28350.

I am actually amazed the score is so low...I traded for/stole every tech in the game, going into negotiations right before attacking. Manage to researach a lot and hold 100% morale but couldn't keep high pop having to send out so many transports. Either way, a recommended game for all!

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Well, I suspect with 9 opponents you didn't had many research-bonus tiles in your homesysterm, isn't it? But that's important in a ZYW - even on these prolonged versions a lot of score comes from the first 4 months concentrating on research only. Later on, say in months 6-12 you'd have to do ~10X the amount of initial research, in order for it to count like in ther first months, but I suspect there's not enough money in the game to do so.

When playing with max opponents in DA I would try to pass them "Advanced Computing" very early, so they would built the TechCapital. With a spy you can actually monitor that. Upon ready built I'd take this world - which will then be turned into a research world solely. That way a really big research can be done. Simply buildign labs on worlds that don't have any bonuses is like a waste....

That you have to invade so many worlds surely will hurt your score. Even with Breeder. The solution is either, to do it with Spore, or to start invading very close to the ending of the game, like to prepare Troop Transports everywhere in advance, on 15th December they take off and on 22nd Dec the game will end. Of course it could be any date, but doing the whole invasion in 2 turns only won't hurt your score at all.

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Oh I forgot about this personal tiny game. What was I thinking.

TinyMap36750

We are looking for players to join to become aggressive Admirals to lead your fleets across the Galaxy!

AdeptaSoroitasBanner Empress Saint Mina of Ophelia VII of Order of the Bloody Rose of Orders Militant of Adepta Sororitas

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34300 is my new personal best on a tiny. Went with a custom race, super annihilator, terran tech. Thanks for that tip Maiden, society score really isn't worth what could instead by gained in economy...Being that it was spore though, I opted to keep morale at 100% in the early phases of the game and then began the heavy taxing once my HW and sister planet were both high pop...Do you think this is a mistake? I just can't see why you suggest heavy taxing early when pop is so low and the gain is negligible...why not build pop at this point?

Another probable mistake on my part was building up constructors for a morale resource right next to my HW...I figured it was so easy to get and would help me keep taxes maxed so it would be worth it, but did I really just lose money/time on leasing constructors for this small resource?

Now if I could only get the nerve to attempt the gigantic map...

-Scanian8

+1

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The question is - at which point of the y0 did you end your game?

If you're ending very early, on April/May or so - I wouldn't even dare to raise pop. Go full tax ever.

But if you're outplaying until 22nd 12, you can raise your pop, okay, but in the very beginngin your HW has already much pop. Those 8b ppl are already enough to get some good tax-income.

The way how taxes are collected is to the square-root of your pop. So if you have 8b ppl that gives a factor of ~2,8. Now let's assume you want to raise pop (normally, not with Breeder) until 12b ppl, then you would have to do 10 turns with low taxes (10*0,4b ppl = 4b +8b =12b). However, your factor for tax has only increased a bit, to ~3,4. That's just 0,6 more taxes in the end. So trying to up your population on your HW is pointless.

However, things are different when you colonize a few other planets. To cut it short; the factor of a 0,5b HW is ~0,7; but that of 2,5b world is ~1,6. More than twice, although you even have less than 2b ppl more on that world. In the above example you had 4b ppl more - which was worth nothing.

So the best you could do is to ferry the population from your homeworld to other planets that are nearby, or take Big ColonyShips and colonize a few other planets. However, you'll need money for that, and this is something that is sparse within the first 8 turns - in which it is better to focus on Tech research solely.

But actually, that's up for you to find out. Why not? Develop your own strategies. The game will tell you (via score) if you did things wrong or better.

Yeah - the gigantic. How are you going to solve the range-issue?

Edit:

BTW just noticed you are already ranked #1 in Kryo's AltMeta in the Military Solar-category. Ascanius.

Time to get some banners (click left on 'AM Forum Banners')

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Make that a new personal best, 39550 ...So close yet so far away...Time to start upping your score Kzin

Tried a gigantic ZYW and learned just how different a beast that one is. Picked up trying to go for eyes of the universe (I think from a conversation between Maiden and Mumble) but bankrupted myself before I even reached the enemy. For now it is the tiny version...but gigantic will come.

Thanks for the AltMeta info...Always great to have a new reward! I hope I updated it correctly...this post should have my banner as far as I understand.

Just shows the callous attitude of the Kzinti Empire...sending their newest recruit into a multitude of border skirmishes..."If anyone needs to be fighting these simple battles its the new guy" I always knew those felines were strategic thinkers.

Really, I messed up a lot on this newest game, 2 accidental full-buys...2 weeks of not starting to build ships for no real reason...and Maiden, being able to check the score is a great tip...now if I could actually get myself to start using it...

-Scanian8

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OMG add another 1100 and you're 3rd place. And that with TA, impressive.

Well, besides the TechCap and NanoRecorders I wouldn't dare to built anything else in a classic ZYW, maybe the OmegaResearchCenter if I get that far... Eyes are not necessary. You can actually tell from the Minimap where your enemies are located --> toggle 'Population' on. If you play all-rare, ARC them Thala as HW & Breeder, and give them the right pts to Econ & Moral & PopGrow & Federalists, then they'll have lots of bcs on 1st March. Still, the range-issue is there, even if it's just one planet that you'll have to conquer....

As for the AltMeta, you'll need to copy this text into your forum-post:

[img ]http://amcore.kryofx.com/sig/23141/2/1.png[/img ]

[img ]http://amcore.kryofx.com/sig/23141/1/1.png[/img ]

NOTE: delete the empty space in the 4 img-tags. This config will show you with Drengin-background, which was your favourite race [medal] before you took our KzinKitten into service

And if you wanna change the background go to the ALtMeta to get another code.

About forgetting stuff - quicksave before pressing end-turn, so you can go always back. The autosave is buggy, it occasionally drops Ethics and Government, beware.

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Second shot at the banner, but there were 2 questions that I had left out in my last posting anyway, so seems like a fitting time to post them.

1- I know Civ-wide bonuses such as the Restaurant of Eternity do not work on the bonus tiles, but do buildings such as the tech capital, which give a planet-wide bonus, still get the multiplier? This is pretty essential as the time the tech capital can be built I can usually have enough research to place it on my highest bonus tile and have it be worth more than the standard lab...could really start to up the research if the bonus tile works.

2- Is tech score based on the amount of Tech points researched or the amount of techs researched? Is it more worthwhile...score wise...to research many small techs instead of a few big techs?

-Scanian8

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So, the banners work now, great!

As for 1) No, the TechCap doesn't get any bonus from tiles - only labs do. How and when bonus-tiles work with buildings is a bit tricky, you'll need to look at the way how the game does compute the improvement. Well, in DL/DA it was pretty easy to say, because there only the Political Capital could get either X2 moral- or the influence from a bonus-tile. In TA you have a few buildings that give mixed bonuses, so it's no that easy to say.

However, generally, whenever something gives you a percentage increase of Research or Production then usually it is NOT affected by a bonustile - such as the ORC, RCC or TechCap; or PowerPlants.

It's not always easy to determine this, esp. because some descriptions in the game are faulty. So, the best way to get these things out is to quicksave, try, reload, try different, and compare results.

2) Tech points. (rp = flasks). The number of techs you research is not relevant.

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In my last few games I have been able to hold my taxes at 80%...This really concerns me as I have been noticing numerous posts that taxes should never be pushed beyond 79%. This makes a lot of sense to me as I have seen my morale drop to 1% the instant I go beyond 79%...but with just one enterainment network on the HW...I was able to hold 80% (beyond that again dropped it). Was the 79% changed in TA? Can I keep pushing this, ie, another morale building = 81% (tried this and didn't work...but maybe 2? Better upgrades?) Just curious if either I am a) tanking my score by going over 79% (so far the answer seems no) or placing too much emphasis on morale in a ZYW.

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Well, my experience (which is basically from DA) is that there is no difference in tax-income between 79% and 80% taxes. So, to up it for 1% is kinda pointless. You can actually observe that quirk pretty often, where you will raise tax but no income is increased.

The moral-penalty fo rgoing to 81% is IMMENSE, and there is no real gain from this 1% tax-increase. Esp. because low-moral = no popgrowth.

Trying to grind points by building moral structures is also pointless. You better build Economic-structures instead.

EDIT:

btw Scanian did you sign up to the Core already? I'm sure you'll find most of the info's there useful; esp. on ZYW

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Went at this game with a whole new strategy (Don't worry, this one had its fair share of harsh failures) and the outcome...39550! Tying my personal best. Now there comes the question of which route to pursue...

For the HW- considering that I always place tech/tech cap on the HW, I have been considering ignoring the econ capitol. The building is expensive and I'm not sure that I'm not getting more points by just placing another research building on my avaliable tiles. Any opinions? (All my other games used econ cap, this most recent (39550) did not.

-Scanian8

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Oh man! I took First Place, I didn't mean too, it just happened because I didn't do anything.

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Zero Year Win Club 2011

Fast and furious victories!