nudity vs violence

Does anyone else find it simply amazing how with the slightest bit of nudity, even without sexual intent in a game, the world has to stop and complain about it? Yet we accept the fact that there are games where we can literally rip a person’s arm off and literally beat them to death with it while wearing a skin tight black and yellow suit and people barely pay it any mind. Yes, yes I get people worry about their kids but let me ask you this.

Firstly many games that even have nudity (not all just some), are rated M; so why in the hell is your kid playing an M rated game?

Secondly, what the hell do you do when your kid needs to take a bath? That is nudity right there, how do you hide them from themselves?

Thirdly, don’t take your kids to any form of museum anytime soon, you’ll be surprised at the level of nudity, some even have statues of people sitting straight but naked looking like they are taking a shit.

A pair a breasts pop out and all hell breaks loose, but 6 or 7 who knows whatever gets crushed by a giant hammer, burnt  alive or torn to shreds by thorn whips everything is all good and cool because it’s just a game and not real? What’s the deal with this anyway through my eyes the human form/figure is a piece of artwork just waiting to be captured on paper, film, and the side of buildings, canvas, or a jail cell.   So why complain about what is natural, and something that can’t be avoided? Ok I understand if it’s being used for the purpose of sexual intent but that is not always the case.

I’ll use queen of thorns as an example, since she has been targeted plenty of times. Note: This is my point of view towards this character and her design, you the reader may disagree, she may have even been made simply of sexual intent but his is how I see her.

 

Queen of thorn- female- fairy- a being who is more or less pure, in a natural form which gives her a bit more natural or at least closer feel to nature which she symbolizes, her equivalent would be TB who symbolizes the elements of nature. The two to me is a depiction of one being wraith and the other being rage, and you probably could throw lust in there to. There opposite would be Reg and Rook who symbolizes advancement and growth beyond what is given to us in nature. But this is just me.

 

88,803 views 47 replies
Reply #1 Top

nudity vs violence
End of quote

censorship is the problem. no censorship, no problem.

Reply #2 Top

Quoting StAcK3D_ActR, reply 1

nudity vs violence
censorship is the problem. no censorship, no problem.
End of StAcK3D_ActR's quote

The problem with censorship is who has the right to say what is censored and what isn't? The government, than why should they?The people, thanw hat gives them the right?

Reply #3 Top

yeah, but they complain for the benefits of the kids, not adults.  Okay, maybe those that have a religious sensiility, but those are different story, those type complain about virtually everything that is not in sync with their tinted glasses view of the world.

Reply #4 Top

I don't have children so I am not going to pretend I wouldn't be concerned if I did, but I suppose it is just people being protective of their kids. Levels of maturity vary greatly so one rating isn't the same for all. If there was a solution that would please everyone, i am sure they would have figured it out already.

Reply #5 Top

Nudity is WAY better than violence.

 

Wait, what was the question? :P

Reply #6 Top

I think in most of europe, nudity is much less of a problem than violence when it comes to public rage or age ratings.

Reply #7 Top

Many beaches in Europe are like this:-

What could be more natural?

Anyone who thinks bodies are in some way disgusting needs serious counselling because they have a problem. Nature made people without clothes and the only thing that stops that feeling normal is what is put in your mind by others.

Throw away your inhibitions, you'll feel so much better ;)

Reply #8 Top

Move to norway. :)

Plenty of nudity in films, advertising and real life. No problem really.

Reply #9 Top

*cries at the sight of overweight people without clothes...*

 

Bad Spock!  Or maybe it's good Spock since you're using the mirrorverse version?

 

I'd like content and content ratings.  Screw the kid/teen/mature bullshit.  Nekid third worlders streaking through the amazon and two people going at it like rabbits are contextually different.  I'd prefer to be warned about both in advance, simply for the purpose of decorum.  It would be terribly improper for me to expose an older relative or young child to something they themselves find highly objectionable, or flat aren't supposed to be exposed to.  I do not want to be surprised by a sex scene any more than I want to be surprised by my character taking a shit.  Regardless of what it is, it wont bother me personally because I have no shame, but it doesn't need to happen while a ten year old cousin is watching.

 

When it doesn't bother you personally, and you get pissed over someone daring to rate it, think of something like goatse.  Wouldn't it be nice if assholes that linked to it put up a warning first?

 

As far as violence goes, it should be treated the same way.  The tree hugging flower child throwback from the sixties doesn't want to see an undercover cop waste some drug dealers.  Normal people aren't going to get excited over a goodguy killing a badguy in a game though, it's what we secretly(well, ok, in my case I openly express my disgust when they take a dirtbag down while he's still breathing) wish was happening in real life.  Then there are people that don't find anything wrong with things that really wouldn't ever be considered ok in reality.  Games like Postal are great for them.

 

Exterminating the alien invaders, stopping terrorists from blowing up a shopping mall, it's contextually different from murdering people in their sleep, or running over old ladies with your car.  They're things that merit notification.

 

Age requirements are retarded though, but all the nanny state idiots on both sides of the spectrum can't seem to figure out that they are supposed to be the parent on all issues, not just the ones they get mad over.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Fuzzy, reply 7
What could be more natural?
End of Fuzzy's quote

Same thing sans the towels, the chairs and the inflatable stuff. Though I must ask, can you enter those beaches *with* your clothes on, or is it a strictly "nude or gtfo" affair?

 

As for the topic at hand, as long as its clearly labeled I don't have a problem with anything, be it nudity, violence, depictions of torture, rape, genocide, whatever. Some people may not want to watch it, and they have a right not to have it shoved down their faces, but others may not have a problem with it and its also their right to feel that way. All these protests and boycotts over "objectionable content" in games, movies and such is pure BS. Live and let live, specially when it comes to forms of expression. Free Speech is far too important a right to throw it away for such idiocy.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting DraekAlmasy, reply 10

As for the topic at hand, as long as its clearly labeled I don't have a problem with anything, be it nudity, violence, depictions of torture, rape, genocide, whatever. Some people may not want to watch it, and they have a right not to have it shoved down their faces, but others may not have a problem with it and its also their right to feel that way. All these protests and boycotts over "objectionable content" in games, movies and such is pure BS. Live and let live, specially when it comes to forms of expression. Free Speech is far too important a right to throw it away for such idiocy.
End of DraekAlmasy's quote

I'm one of those objectionable religious parents and I agree with this.

The problem isn't just one of labeling though, it is one of choice. Is this stuff in school library books or classrooms? Is it in public advertisements?

I'm a firm believer in free speech that you can say whatever you want. I'm not however a believer in a forced audience that has to listen/read/see the garbage that most people put out with their free speech. Nudist beaches, fine. Nudist men wandering into public fountains (which happened this last summer in Seattle) I'm absolutely NOT okay with.

P.S. - The reason some people have a problem more with nudity than violence is that we force nudity on the public more than violence (you can watch crazy violent movies in your own home, but you can have half-naked models on billboards).

P.S.S. - Another reason for the explosive growth of censorship calls is because people are doing less to project children. When there are violent children or children sexually assault another it is blamed on media rather than the bad parents/teachers/guardians it should be.

Reply #12 Top

As for the topic at hand, as long as its clearly labeled I don't have a problem with anything, be it nudity, violence, depictions of torture, rape, genocide, whatever. Some people may not want to watch it, and they have a right not to have it shoved down their faces, but others may not have a problem with it and its also their right to feel that way. All these protests and boycotts over "objectionable content" in games, movies and such is pure BS. Live and let live, specially when it comes to forms of expression. Free Speech is far too important a right to throw it away for such idiocy.
End of quote

Rape and genocide might be a bit much. Custer's Revenge is probably objectionable for good reasons.

 

Reply #13 Top

The problem isn't censorship. 

The problem is religion

 

In the middle ages the church deemed it to be pious to forsake the natural urge to procreate: "Give all your love to God".
Hence celibacy, matrons raping younger nuns with candlesticks and priests having sex with choir boys (the carnal acts are not part of official church policy).

What started as piety became dogma, then culture. So, modesty good - sex bad.

On the other hand, the church always approved of killing, torturing and maiming of those-who-deserve-it, which were ususally those-who-got-it. If that red-head was killed then she deserved it then it must be because god decided that she deserved it. Must have been a witch or something.

And all that despite Jesus' message of peace, compassion and forgiveness.

Face it: All those so-called christians are listening primarily to the old testament and not the new one. And that makes them not Christians at all. It would make them Jews, but they don't want to have anything to do with them.

 

Reply #14 Top

synnworld: this is the American point of view. The European point of view is the other way around.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 9
... Age requirements are retarded though, but all the nanny state idiots on both sides of the spectrum can't seem to figure out that they are supposed to be the parent on all issues, not just the ones they get mad over.
End of psychoak's quote

Here's another one where I'm a "real conservative" when compared to large swaths of both major parties: psychoak is correct--too many parents are more interested in raising a public ruckus about one particular child-related concern or another than they are in doing a well-rounded job of raising their own children.

Quoting Rishkith, reply 11
... P.S. - The reason some people have a problem more with nudity than violence is that we force nudity on the public more than violence (you can watch crazy violent movies in your own home, but you can have half-naked models on billboards). ...
End of Rishkith's quote

psychoak knows I'm really no sort of conservative, despite agreeing with him here and there. For example, I believe that this sort of billboard argument is weakening steadily as public spaces are polluted with more and more video displays that are just as capable of showing intense snippets of violence as billboards are of making some folks feel tingly down there.

The real rub here is that if you have a strong committment to a minority ideology, you are going to have to face 'offensive' stuff when you move around in public. I'm crazy enough that I believe advertising itself is rude at best and more likely an immoral practice. I could care less whether the huckster on the billboard is pitching Calvin Klein undies or armored in the latest from Brooks Brothers; the fact that they are trying to make me stop thinking about whatever was on my mind and start thinking about spending money on them is offensive.

On a completely different note, I strongly suspect that the voluntary censorship of nudity and sexual langauge makes for more 'porn-like' experiences than just leaving stuff alone would. There was a little SF show back in the '90s whose credits showed the back side of a man being thrown naked out of a helicopter into some large body of water; the shot is very wide, the bare ass very small on the sceen. Now, when the Siffy network puts it in re-run rotation, the man's ass-crack is both 'hidden' and emphasized by pixelation. How's that supposed to protect parents from being asked ass-related questions by their kids?

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Aroddo, reply 13
The problem isn't censorship. 

The problem is religion
End of Aroddo's quote

Hogwash any way you cover it.

Atheist USSR, Mao's China, Cambodia, etc have all been the worst cases of state murder and war in the last century if not much, much further (Stalin killed as many in Gulags as the Holocaust, and Mao far far more). Sexuality in those officially athiest countries was far more repressed as well.

 Historically almost all socieities have been religious and all we've seen have been a change of religions. So I suspect what you meant was really an attack on "western" religions of Christianity and Judaism. Which, yes have had their dark moments where people turned the beliefs of those religions on their heads but have brought about relative peace and stability. In any society there is always  a deviation from the bell curve of normality. But I'm glad to be in a society where the center of the bell lines up less with rape, murder, state oppression and we can be shocked when it happens rather than in a society where it is regarded as normal.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Aroddo, reply 13
The problem isn't censorship. 

The problem is religion
End of Aroddo's quote

 

Funny that Religion become a argument here...

 

For info, the lower age of consent for sexual activity in Europa is 12 yo, 15 yo when there is a relationship of dependence (like teacher/student, etc.)... The country with these very low age of consent is called "VATICAN CITY" !!!

 

Christian Religion have no problem with sexuality... the problem is the purpose of the sexuality... Reproductive purpose is right, pleasure only is wrong...

 

For info, i am atheist... but i don't like when people use religion for justify something who is not related... the laws in a lot of modern country is not dicted by religion by by people living in these country...

 

By the way, young people are attracted by what is prohibithed... put a "M" label on a game and they will try to have it by any means... by the way, almost nobody control the age of the guy who buy a game in store... a lot of young people when they buy online click the buttom "i certify to be over 21 yo" without problem... All these "adult" label thing only give the impression that adult care about younger one when in fact, it lead to the reverse effect...

 

Reply #18 Top

It's ok GW, eventually you'll end up a libertarian like most thinking individuals do.

 

Those of us that are crazy want to wipe out half the planet though, so the interventionist ideology is incompatible...  It's very sad.

 

Aroddo, you should take a little context in with your education.  Those barbaric dirt bag church people went and rewrote the Bible when the English split from catholicism and purposefully ignored what the commandment really said.  Instead, with the threat of death over a mistranslation, multiple different people all wrote down kill instead of murder without being able to know what the others had written.

 

The foundation of the idiotic argument that every life is sacred, and even murderers deserve to live.  A bunch of fucking monks lying about the old testament where it should have meant their death.

 

First you must look, then form an opinion.  The brutality of Catholicism during the dark ages is irrefutable, it's also almost entirely irrelevant.  Europe was brutal with or without it just fine, it's what happens to a society when people start starving because the climate cools off.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting Aroddo, reply 13
The problem isn't censorship. 

The problem is religion

 

In the middle ages the church deemed it to be pious to forsake the natural urge to procreate: "Give all your love to God".
Hence celibacy, matrons raping younger nuns with candlesticks and priests having sex with choir boys (the carnal acts are not part of official church policy).

What started as piety became dogma, then culture. So, modesty good - sex bad.

On the other hand, the church always approved of killing, torturing and maiming of those-who-deserve-it, which were ususally those-who-got-it. If that red-head was killed then she deserved it then it must be because god decided that she deserved it. Must have been a witch or something.

And all that despite Jesus' message of peace, compassion and forgiveness.

Face it: All those so-called christians are listening primarily to the old testament and not the new one. And that makes them not Christians at all. It would make them Jews, but they don't want to have anything to do with them.

 
End of Aroddo's quote

You know, I'm not religious... I'm primarily agnostic... but blaming religion for everything is not the answer to anything. I primarily don't like these arguments because bad stuff comes out of anything and trying to put the blame on something is distracting from the darkness that can come from anywhere.

It's sort of like asking, "what political philosophy does tyranny stem from?" You can say anything you want, but really, tyranny can come from anywhere.

Reply #20 Top

The FCC, an appointed, un-elected, group of people chose all by itself that radio and television are the two parts of media not protected by the first amendment's freedom of speech. I'd like to repeat that because it sounds.....vaguely important.

-George Carlin-

R.I.P.

Reply #21 Top

<3 amish.

now... to dig out similar quotes about all the abc government agencys and remind myself who I am.

Reply #22 Top

You know, I'm not religious... I'm primarily agnostic... but blaming religion for everything is not the answer to anything. I primarily don't like these arguments because bad stuff comes out of anything and trying to put the blame on something is distracting from the darkness that can come from anywhere.
End of quote

Agreed. Blaming "religion" is a non-argument. Religious people can be great people, and non-religious people can be horrible people. Even scientific principles can be abused (genocides in the name of natural selection). Blaming "religion" doesn't really sound rational.

IMHO the real problem with nudity is that it ties with sexuality, and there's a lot of arguing over how sexuality is to be treated. We've gone from one extreme of practically banning it all the way to the other extreme of treating it as a form of entertainment. We've yet to find a good middle ground.

 

Reply #23 Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 18
It's ok GW, eventually you'll end up a libertarian like most thinking individuals do. ...
End of psychoak's quote

You're half-right, except that I stopped at libertarianism somewhere on my way between my original love of philosophical anarchism and my current affection for democratic theory. If Aristotle had any major weakness in his basic analysis of political systems, it was that he never really considered Rule By None. If he had, maybe one of the recent punks like Bakunin or Wolff would have had a better set of giant's shoulders from which to make their stands.

And all of that's really a great distraction from the possibly-more-important idea that perhaps people should become more used to seeing unclothed, occasionally sexually active bodies and less used to seeing murdered and/or maimed bodies. Not that I'm a second-generation counterculture peacenik or anything...

Reply #24 Top

great topic and discussion here by the way. :)

Reply #25 Top

I think the main reason why nudity seems to be so much more restricted in videogames than violence is, is because its damn near impossible to may nudity "comic" so to speak. 

 

The fact is, violence often requires detail to appear in any way similar to the real thing - gore, blood splatter, bone fragments etc. - and it's only recently that computers have had the power and capability to represent such details.  Still, its not 100% realistic, you would need huge amounts of computing power to accurately represent someone's head being hit by a half inch bullet for instance - just the physics for animating brain fragments would be rediculous.  This has all stemmed from our origional toleration of violence when videogames were just blocks on a screen and something dieing was "Pew, pew, pew!  Urk!"and maybe some pixels fell over which was seen as something that simply wouldn't affect someone's mental development due to how distant it was from real death and violence.  How "comic" it was, to return to my origional point.

 

Nudity however, was considerably harder thing to make "comic".  Even with a block of pixels, it was possibly to represent all the approprite parts of the anatomy and, at least to a point, mimic real nudity to where it couldn't be explained away or considered to distant from reality to make an impact.  Take the previous example, the dead pixel creature - there are a million other far more innocent alternatives to "kill" such as "stun", or "KO" or "Sent to sleep" which could sensibly be substituted for "kill" - in the end however, its just a way of removing something from the game, or at least, to prevent it troubling you.  Nudity, especially the sexual side, cannot be explained away legitimately like this, or distanced from the reality.  For violence, if you punch someone, they fly across the room, bounce off a wall like rubber and land without a scratch on them, any well educated person, even a child, would laugh because that's so far detached from the reality.  They will understand the sillyness of what they have just seen, dismiss it, and keep a clear barrier between the fictional and the real - most will do this even with considerably more realistic violence (well perhaps not laugh, but maintain the boundary) because they know the reality. 

 

Nudity is a different matter - how do you make that "comic"?  Even "comic" depictions of people usually bear clear similarities to real people  - and real nudity - partially because nudity is a passive act - "being nude" - rather than violence - "to commit violence" - which is active and so can easily be made comic purely by exaggerating that action.  Nudity doesn't work like that (try exaggerating nudity and things, instead of becoming comic, become sexual, most of the time) and once you move toward the things that are often associated with nudity - read: sexuality (even when its not, its usually assumed) - it becomes very shakey ground.  We can trivialise violence - its called slapstick and it's funny if done correctly - but trivialising sex is another matter.  For one, how?  It's still sexual no matter how you portray it and two, it still has the full impact no matter how you explain it (unlike our "kill" and the less violent "stun" example).  It's hard to differentiate "comic" sexuality from reality purely due to its nature, it is hard to have varying degrees and objectives (so to speak) regarding sexuality unlike it is with violence - the word says it all, sexuality, having to do with sex (usually in its more colloquial interpretation). 

 

End point is, nudity is hard to make "comic" and so differentiate it from reality and demonstate the line beween the real and the fictional, especially without making said nudity appear sexual.  As for game content which is sexual, well, would you want sexuality trivialised?  I think the main point is that videogame censorship seems to have been running on the same ideas since games first came into existance, and has failed to adapt as they change, leading to such high levels of realistic violence being accepted as normal in videogames, and, to an extent, perfectly harmless on the psyche.  Nudity has never been seen this way due to how well it can be represented even in a minimalist fashion, and so suffered full blown censorship from the start, especially due to the way it could be portrayed, and how it could never be "comic" in the same way violence was.

 

About your art argument - yes, the nudity in art is accepted but primarly because art is viewed as something quite different to videogames.  Sculptures are viewed as tributes to the human body etc. etc. (this is actually getting a bit Nazist...) while videaogames are more seen as trivialisations of real occurances, and trivialisation of the human body itself, and sexuality, could easily be seen as capitalist exploitation, or such things.  Its all been caused because the world of videogaming has blundered forward with all the associated authorities failing to realise just how it works and always atttempting to nail the tail end to the floor without thinking what they're really doing.

 

I hope that made sense.  If it didn't, say so and I'll clarify.

 

EDIT:  Who is the Queen of Thorns btw?  I must have been asleep for that...and holy - how much did I write?