Spin Control Center + Military starbases

I believe they do, but people have taken it even further without an MCC by stacking ships in the one or two tiles in a corner of a sector where the areas of multiple sectors' worth of starbases overlap.

So, let me be clear.

One could build some mil bases whose intersection hex is the SCC planet, and the AIs would thus use the multi-augmented ship attack factors in their math.

Note that the sequence of the math is important.  That is, say there is one ship in orbit with 20 attack factor and the bases add a total of 200 attack factor (to each ship):

- is it (1 ship) x (20 AF + 200 bases)  x 5 (SCC) = 1100

or

- is it (1 ship) x (20 AF)  x 5 (SCC) + 200 bases = 300

That's a big difference, especially if there are 10 ships in orbit!

Well indeed.  The SCC with 10 heavily armed ships is enough to scare the bejesus out of the AI.  A military starbase array (MSA) is not required for that purpose.  For points, it is very useful.

As for the math, the SCC is 10X and the MSA is additive, not multiplicative.

What Kryo was saying is this   https://forums.galciv2.com/174470//

Mumble's reply #2 is the best example.

I have so far had a tough time both getting to SCC and researching high AF weapons for ships before the AIs have declared war on me.

Getting a couple mil base multipliers to combine with the SCC might mean I could get the effect earlier in the weapons tree.

I read that thread - Thanx!  And I cannot imagine putting that time into some of the endeavors described.  Still, on my combining Q, if

- 5 ships in orbit around SCC planet with 10 AF each

- in zone of 2 mil bases with, say, 20 each bonus attack

What does the AI "see" there mathematically?

   It does take some time.

The AI "sees"...>Civ Manager>Stats and Graphs...the Military Graph.

With a large map by mid year 1 the AI is usually strong enough (or done with their rush) to become aggressive.  Target your research to build the SCC and ships to offset this. 

 

Go evil and get Psionic Beam. That's the weapon of choice for both under your SCC as well as for real use against the AI. A small hull with a single psionic beam and a pair of engines rules the galaxy for the first year and a half. When that starts to be ineffictive just moving up in hull size keeps you competitive for quite some time.

 

Hi!

I remember reading that Mil SBs don't work on ships in orbit, where SCC only works. I could be wrong though, I haven't played GC-2 in a long time.

BR,  Iztok

Mumblefratz -

I have tried the Psionic Beam.  The daggone thing is expensive to produce and srill requires considerable research down that tree.  Last Suicidal game I had gotten three Psionic Beam cargo hulls with over 100 AF each into SCC orbit and the AIs still declared war on me before I could get more there.

I will have to try other experiments.  I have not, for example, gone on an early war offensive with small Psionic Beamers.  That could be fun! 

Iztok -

My reading of the thread at the link in reply #3 is that they DO stack for ships in orbit.  I still would like to know how they do that mathematically, though, as the equation order might make a BIG difference!

You are right on both counts but it's by far the most powerful weapon on the lowest part of the tree that you can get.

Usually I go for upgrading 4 bare cargo hulls into 100+ attack value ships the turn that I get to Psionic Beam. It takes me a few turns to get out of debt but you get them far quicker.

Also you can't do this in a vacuum. If it takes you too long to get there then the AI's may very well have enough military might that even 4 cargo hulls full of Psionic beams around an SCC may not be enough. Usually I continually trade with all of the AI's as much as possible and made a point of trading for their attack ships as they build them. For one this keeps their military low and helps yours, plus it gives you fodder for all sorts of useful upgrades. For example a Psionic beam fighter on a small hull or even a small hull colony ship if you get your miniaturization up high enough.

But the most important part is to take thier ships in trade so that when you do put up the SCC you can gain full benefit from it.

The few times I tried to buy/trade for an AI warship, they wanted far too much!  But, I confess, I'm not sure I've tried that after running all the way down the diplo tree.  Hmmmm.

The thing is that all this stuff snowballs after a bit.

You get a bit of a diplomatic advantage and you begin to get more value for your trades. You get some more and you start getting their ships. You get their ships and you have both a diplomatic advantage *and* a military might advantage and you haven't even gotten to the part of putting up an SCC.

It's a dance that if performed well can get you almost anything but it all can easily fall apart at the critical moment if you let that advantage pass. You use one advantage to gain another but the advantage is only temporary so you need to make the most of it while you can to gain the next set of advantages.

Generally in the June/July timeframe you should be able to get two or three of their small hull fighters/defenders for one decent tech plus a bit of cash. You should also be able to get this from each AI so from one tech you can gain 2-3 fighters plus cash nine times.

Maybe I'm having a duh moment but all that doesn't seem to answer if the SCC actually stacks with a Mil SBA.

Only that they use different systems which is already pretty obvious from their module/tech description.

Oh, it's probably not going to matter for my game scores for a long time but vanity demands more sacrifices of play time! I only took a look at the high scores and umm... 1.3 mil, 1.4 mil... ooooookay. Not quite there, yet. =P

TBH, I hadn't even used SCC or MSBA, yet, not realising that the mil score would end up being the major player. *shrug* Play and learn.

There are many different ways to win and there are many different ways to a high score.

In reality I don't believe the SCC is a major component of military score. Instead it's a method to gain advantage over the AI quickly and therefore a way to be able to quickly win. Winning quickly is itself a majot component of getting a high score.

Getting a high score can be done by maximizing *any* of the four components of score (population, income, military and tech) way beyond normal bounds. Generally when you take this route you end up giving up scoring potential in the other components of score to take advantage of one particular component. Some of these components go hand in hand. For example I always really focus on income first and it's a side effect of having a large income that allows me to purchase huge quantities of ships thus enhancing my military score. On the other hand focusing exclusively on one of one set of components may force you to give up scoring potential on another component like tech spending for example. Another way to a high score is a more balanced approach. For example where I might have a 1 million bc per week income and spend all of it purchasing ships for my military I've seen others instead gradually build up tech spending to on the order of 500K rp's per turn and only spending the balance on ships. This can work as well and in fact may actually be a better approach since it seems that scoring is exponentially related to absolute magnitude of the scoring component. By that I mean to double your military score you really need to quadruple your military rating. Same with the other components of score. You can usually trade off between components of score on a more linear basis which make it more effective to us that extra income increasing one of the componets of score that is lower in an absolute sense. However these tradeoff's are not always so obvious. You really have to play them out different ways and see what works best.

Aww shoot! There goes my illusion of a "best way" to get a high score. =P

I was just curious about the SCC. Even if the effect stacks with starbases it only affects 10 ships anyway which isn't on the same scale as a 1500 pt bonus to an unlimited number of ships in "the" square.

I am, however, positively in awe of those who achieved huge scores. (which includes you =)) That takes a lot of knowledge and the skill to use it. And a boatload ot perseverance. Now I'm probably able to match the latter and I'm working on the former. Oh, I'm not confusing this with "winning" skills. The Metaverse scores are a completely separate and nerdy dick waving contest but I hope to do some waving of my own. =P

Now if only GalCif would stop crashing with out of memory errors or when Alt-Tabbing / saving. Is there a way to play "windowed" to avoid the need to do that? I can't just leave the game running for a week or two without ever tabbing out to check my mail or whatnot...

Edit: This is officially my duh moment of the day. Who woulda thunk that "Fullscreen" is a VIDEO option??? And the implementation is nothing short of brilliant. No useless windows borders or control buttons whatsoever. Only fewer crashes!

Now galactic domination shall be MINE! I lead. Follow or get out of the way!

I have found that playing with textures off has eliminated my "out of memory" errors.  The planets, stars, ships, etc. do not look quite as pretty, but I'm now able to play with max size galaxy, etc. w/o frequent crashes.

The latter is the inception of the former.  This winter you can be writing your name in the snow.

 

jacklv -

How in the hell am I going to get all this coffee out of my keyboard?