This is a huge step backwards

It is?

Is there some cross posting ability between the GalCiv and GalCiv2 websites that I'm not aware of or do you merely mean that you typically frequent the GalCiv site versus the GalCiv2 site (and assumedly still play GalCiv over GalCiv2)?

I'm not familiar with GalCiv but in GalCiv2  production type buildings, both industrial and research, increase your maximum production capability by a fixed amount such as 10 MP's (military production) or 10 SP's (social production) for a enhanced factory in DL or 8 RP's (research production) for a Xeno Lab (again in DL). Of course you pay maintenance on the building whether or not you actually use this increased production capability or not but you only pay for the production that you use as selected by your spending sliders.

As far as "bonus" production there are really two different kinds. One kind of bonus merely increases the "base" production on a particular planet and that type of bonus production is treated just as if it were production from a building except that there usually is no maintenance associated with this production. Things like your manufacturing capital and tech capital are like this. They merely multiply the effect of the planets output by the stated percentage.

The other type of bonus production is generally a more "global" source of bonus such as having researched particular techs or mining starbases on research or other mining resources or even economic starbases with production/research assist modules installed. This type of production bonus costs only half of what normal production/research costs and is not listed under the planets direct expenses but is listed separately as a bonus production expense in your domestic stats.

Basically it's only economic buildings that work on a percentage basis and essentially increase the planets tax revenue by the stated percent, however there are some buildings like the already mentioned manufacturing capital and technological capital along with power plant type buildings in DA and TA that do work on a percentage basis.

It just is. Certainly I can see the argument that industrial output should in some way be tied to population on the basis that you can't expect a sparsely populated planet to be able to produce the same as a planet with a huge population. However one could argue that most modern production can be accomplished mainly with automated machinery with little human oversight and so that would argue for the idea that population might have little effect on industrial production. I'd be more willing to accept the argument that research needs to have a stronger coupling to population since it seems to me that it’s more difficult to eliminate the highly educated human from research production.

The bottom line is that it's usually not productive to require absolute rationality from game mechanics. They either *work* together or they don't. Some ability to suspend disbelief is going to be required for every game. The question is overall does it make sense and does it make for a playable game. Many folks believe that as a whole GalCiv2 does make sense and is a very playable game.

A final question for you.

I've known many GalCiv2 players that had previously played GalCiv. I was a long time member of the Diplomats empire which essentially evolved out of the Guardians. A lot of those folks have stopped playing GalCiv2 as well, but all of them obviously moved on from GalCiv to GalCiv2 when it came out.

I can understand the idea that some folks may prefer playing the older game over the newer one. I still prefer the original DL version to DA although I'm not yet sure about how I'll feel about TA. However with this said it seems to me that on the rare occasion that I do visit the GalCiv website it mostly just bums me out to see what obviously used to be a vibrant and active game site reduced to a bunch of 6+ year old threads that every few months or so get another post. It just seems to be a ghost town. I mean even if you still like the old game I'd think by now it's time to give GalCiv2 a try.

Hi!

In GC-1 a player that pushed bonuses to the limit, could have 300%+ as much bonus (=completely free) production as "regular" (=payable) production. Because of that in late game versions developers started nerfing bonuses, but game was still quite un-balanced to those that were smart enough to misuse bonuses (=live player).

In the game's future people don't work in factories anymore, so production is limited only with available funds (obviously game's future isn't comunistic ).

BR,  Iztok

Also in GC2, you only pay for HALF the production increased via bonus.

Communism is populistic, but it is not specifically anti-technological. If anything, Communists would like automated factories because they would help liberate workers to advance in society as opposed to working.

I don't think you understand, that isnt a recent post on the GalCiv 1 forum, that's a quote from an article written by the one of the designers back in 2003. read it here https://www.galciv1.com/encyclopedia.asp?action=showpage&page=https://www.galciv1.com/docs/undocs.html

you do realize that I wasn't asking the question, that was a rhetorical question in the passage I was quoting, the whole indented portion is a quote from the article.  I used the blockquote button on the post toolbar instead of the quote tags, sorry for the confusion.

see, the in Galciv one population did feed into industrial output.  and if I was looking for an "in-character" explanation, that one wouldn't hold water.  if production costs money, then people are being paid to do work,( or paid for a commodity, which is the same as paying them to do the work of producing the commodity); now, GalCiv1 had fixed labor costs (bigger population didn't make labor cheaper) and didn't seperate cost of materials from cost of labor. but allowed changes in effiency  ('bonus' production that didn't have to be paid for)

GalcivII allows no such thing, the cost is the cost and advances in Tech and infrastructre will allow you to pay the cost faster, but won't change the cost.

As noted above, I don't expect "realism", if such a game were produced, it would likly be unplayable. I was asking in the out of character context, why did anyone think it was a good idea? 

And more importantly, (this was the thrust of the original post) Why did they choose for galciv2 an economics model that they considered, rejected, and publicly argued against in the development of Galciv 1? 

yeah, I got GalCivII a long time ago, and then went back to GalCiv one because of Galciv two's crappy economics model, never played the Expansion packs tho.

 

EDIT: Sonofa... does anyone know how to fix these quote tags?

Yeah.

The [ quote who="Mumblefratz" reply="1" id="2311395" ] is the problem. It works fine until you try to embed multiple levels of quotes and then it munges them together as you see. This has been reported but to date the only thing you can do is not use the quote who tag when trying to use multiple level quotes.

OK, as you noticed I didn't entirely grasp the point of your original question.

I really have no good answer. To me the game is the game that I grew up with and to me it works as it always has and I find the economics "normal". To you it represents an unwelcome change. The end result is that it is what it is and like it or not it's not going to be changing. As far as the economics model it's doubtful that you'll like the DA or TA expansions any more than the original DL version. Perhaps GalCiv3 will be more to your liking and it will be us GalCiv2 players that will not like the changes. Who knows?