Artificial Cowardice

Why does the AI in this game act so cowardly all the time? I've yet to have any civilization declare war on me... like ever. What do I have to do to make it actually want to fight me?

I play as Drath, huge map, 9 civs, Intelligent AIs. I go down the diplomacy/influence route, don't research any militaty tech, don't build any warships. My immediate neighbor is Drengin. He keeps telling me that I'm weak but never attacks me, because he "likes" me. Soon my economy starts booming, so I buy some of the Drengin's ships to both get some military rating and keep the Drengin from accumulating too powerful a military. He is all too willing to sell them to me all too cheap. My military rating is still in the gutter and remains there for the whole game, although I continue liberally purchasing ships from other civs. Still, no one attacks me.

Then I start bribing other civs into attacking each other. For a measly ~1500bc they gladly enter into fratricidal wars against thier friends and trade patners. None of them appear to resent me for it, I'm still everyone's best friend. Meanwhile I'm getting filthy rich from War Profiteering. You'd think someone would figure me out for the culprit behind all the bloodshed... but no. Then I research the Influence tech branch and start launching hordes of constuctors into other civs' territory, building influence starbases and fllipping their worlds en masse. Relationships cool down a bit, but still the victimized civs refrain from attacking me even as thier worlds fall. Later the civs with whom I have a Close relationship, instigated by me, manage to wipe out the other, less friendly civs. I ally myself with the survivors for a Diplomatic Victory.

As you can see, the AI grossly and repeatedly failed to recognize me as the prime behind-the-scenes prime mover and a threat to itself. It also failed to take advantage of my relative military weakness. For the entire game my civ was completely uncontested by the AI civs. Well, I thought, maybe I'm just too good at playing diplomacy, or it's just overpowered. So, I decided to try another style of play.   

Now I play as Drengin, immense map, slow tech, 9 AIs all set to maximum Aggessiveness. This time there will be no diplomacy, no trade, no mercy -- only war. Surely other civs will rise up to meet my relentless onslaught. I never bother with researching any diplomacy beyond Xeno Communicaton. Everyone I meet during the colony rush is Cool, Wary. or Hostile toward me. I beeline straight for the basic ship guns and Planetary Invasion techs. As soon as I can get a couple of fighters and a troop transport in the air, I go after my neighbor, the Thalan, who failed to expand and controls only his captal world. While my fleet is en-route I manage to finish researching a major soldiering-boosting tech. The Thalan has no military save for 0-attack "defender" ships, which my fighters gleefully slaughter for experience. Aided by superior soldiering and thier numbers boosted by Information Warfare, my 1500 million bloodthirsty Drengin marines take Thala from from 18 billion cowering defenders.

The other civs are not at all disturbed by the Thalans' destruction. They actually like me better now that I have some fighters and the free Dominator corvettes I got for making war on the Thalans! The same corvettes that are even now launching towards the middle of the map where the Terrans, Arceans, and Korx are located. They still have no weapons on their ships, because they've been too busy researching other crap that won't save them from me. Pretty stupid of them.

The Terrans are rated the 2nd most powerful civ, yet they suffer the same fate as the Thalans, thier defenseless worlds taken effortlessly by basic 1- or 2-attack fighters and highly trained ground troops. I get another negative modifier to my resume for being a "civ-killer". I've made sure to further antagoinze whoever I could by extorting money from them. Perhaps now the remaining civs will get wise, get armed, and join forces in repelling the barbaric conqeror? Nope. The Korx are in awe of my evil and now feel Close to me. They prefer to rely on my good will (ha-ha!) and continue developing trade instead of arming themselves. The Drath located a ways to the north-east of center also perfer to remain Neutral, unarmed, and isolationist. Suddenly, the righteous Altarians make contact and their ambassador appears on my viewscreen. Have they come to pledge to fight me to the death and unite the other races in their holy crusade against galactic enslavement? Ah, no, they come bearing gifts. 

Only the Arceans, upon whose doorstep my forces are now amassed after conquering the Terrans see it fit to research ship weapons and put some basic fighters of thier own in orbit around their worlds aided by the Oribital Fleet Manager on Arcea. However the relations remain Neutral. I take a few turns to fix up my economy and get more ships before I'm ready to attack the Arceans. However, they managed to make a breakthrough and research Medium hulls in the meantime, while I only have Small ships. Each of thier medium frigates is almost a match for 3 of my small fighters. Will the Arceans challenge me now that they've been so empowered?

In a stunningly retarded move, the Artifical Idiot controlling the Arceans declares war on the Yor, who are on the opposite side on the map, and moves his few frgates away from his planets, leaving them lightly defended. My fleets are poised less than a sector away from his capital world. Not unexpectedly, I move in and take Arcea. Deprived of their Orbital Fleet Manager the remaining Arcean planets are easy pickings for my fighters, as are the isolated frigates too late in returning to defend thier worlds.

The surviving AIs fail to learn their lesson. I open a second front with the free dominator corvettes I got when I attacked the Arceans and proceed to crush the Drath and the Korx simultaneously. Both *still* have no armed ships. Relations with the Korx remain Close right up until the moment when my fleets, blatantly positioned next to their planets, eliminate their race from the game in a single turn. The Altarians continue bringing me tribute. My fleet of dominator corvettes is by now very large, I even disband some to save on the upkeep.

I spend some peaceful turns reorganizing my suddenly huge empire and scouting out the remaining civs. Still no one presents any opposition, organized or otherwise, though I've demonstrated my genocidal, backstabbing, extorting, baby-eating ways repeatedly to them. However, the Good civs: Altarians, Torians, and Iconians are happily warring with each other, although this war is a formality, since none are taking any actual military action.

My reorganized and upgraded Battlefleet #1 rolls in and exterminates the Torians, who have basic fighters and no orbital defense, then turns on the Altarians. For some odd reason they have a huge stockpile of troop transports but hardly any warships. When I attack the Altarians, the Iconians *finally* declare war on me -- the first race to ever do so first during the whole game -- but apparently only becuase the Altarians' Super Ability forces them to do so. Unfortunately for the Iconians, their declaration of war is concurrent with the arrival of my Battlefleet #2 into their distant corner of the galaxy, where they've been living in sinful peace with the Yor. Both are exterminated even as the last Altarian worlds fall, completing my Conquest Victory.

As fun as it is to see a good plan come together and culminate in a decisive victory, I wish the AI would actually mount a genuine challenge to a human player's plans. The computer-controlled civs are way, *way*, too timid toward the player even on the most aggressive setting. I think it's the most timid AI I've seen in a game of its type. 

10,309 views 11 replies
Reply #1 Top

Just as a very quick reply - I tend to play the biggest maps possible with 7-9 opponents, and never research any military tech during the initial colony rush, just churn out coloships and research colo techs asap. I often become very large and vulnerable, and very often, e.g. almost always, have my nearest and biggest rival declare war on me (I usually lose a couple of planets near them to start before I fight back, but it's worth it in the long run).

 

I've always loved that because it seems extremely realistic to me.

 

Oh and I play with a mix of AI intelligence, from a couple of beginners to a couple of hards, with some randoms thrown in.

Reply #2 Top

Well, I think the AI is doing threat calculations. As long as you are not a threat, they will leave you alone. This is rather well executed, I have had the AI declare war on me for example when I became close to an influence victory. I.e. "if is_winning_game(player) then declare_war;". The AI also immedeately reacts if it detects you are planning a war (or might be planning a war, because the algorithms can have false positives). And if you become rather large, it starts to form alliances against you.

The end result is that as long as you don't really do anything, the AI sees no reason at all to attack you, where in other 4X games, eliminating the player is a high AI priority. I actually think this is a very positive aspect about the AI, since you actually can live in harmony with computer players. In for example Civilization, you know for sure that at some point in time, an AI player will attack you.

However, I think there is a very weak point in it and that is the AI "thinks" in a very defensive way, it is focused on detecting danger and not on looking at the big picture how to win the game. To win, wars are necessary, even if your goal is for example an influence victory. My impression is that the AI doesn't understand this concept at all, it seems that at some point it decides "all seems well" and just limits itself to maintain its planets and fleets.

By the way, a very good way to bring a boring game to live is to use diplomacy to make AI's attack each other. It won't take long until AI's start asking you or other AI's to help and if one AI wins usually alliances are being formed against the big player. Sooner or later you get involved in this.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting dmantione, reply 2

However, I think there is a very weak point in it and that is the AI "thinks" in a very defensive way, it is focused on detecting danger and not on looking at the big picture how to win the game. To win, wars are necessary, even if your goal is for example an influence victory. My impression is that the AI doesn't understand this concept at all, it seems that at some point it decides "all seems well" and just limits itself to maintain its planets and fleets.
End of dmantione's quote

 

No wonder I'm only fair-to-middlin' at this game; that's a great description of what I do.

Reply #4 Top

Hi!

Why does the AI in this game act so cowardly all the time? ...

I play as Drath, huge map, 9 civs, Intelligent AIs.

End of quote

IIRC inteligent AI has only 75% income and some higher "brain" functions disabled. Play the "tough" game and you'll get in war very soon. Not that it will matter much in that huge galaxy of yours, because the AI is optimized for medium maps and tactical decisions.  

BR,  Iztok

Reply #5 Top

Quoting IztokBitenc, reply 4
Hi!


Why does the AI in this game act so cowardly all the time? ...


I play as Drath, huge map, 9 civs, Intelligent AIs.



IIRC inteligent AI has only 75% income and some higher "brain" functions disabled. Play the "tough" game and you'll get in war very soon. Not that it will matter much in that huge galaxy of yours, because the AI is optimized for medium maps and tactical decisions.  

BR,  Iztok
End of IztokBitenc's quote

AFAIK "Intelligent" is the AI setting that causes the computer to play at its maximum ability without receiveing any economic bonuses. "Tough" is the overall game difficulty rating determined by the combined settings of all AI players. Setting all computer civs to Intelligent causes the difficulty to be set to Tough, and conversely setting the difficulty to tough causes the AIs to be set to Intelligent.

I'm pretty sure I've been playing with maxed out AI opponents, full CPU useage included.

 

Reply #6 Top

Hi!

"Intelligent" is the AI setting that causes the computer to play at its maximum ability without receiveing any economic bonuses
End of quote

I stand corrected. I wrongly used settings for "normal" AI.

The computer-controlled civs are way, *way*, too timid toward the player even on the most aggressive setting.
End of quote

IIRC while there are planets to settle, are most AIs in "expansion mode" - they don't "waste" resources on warships, but are trying to expand as much as possible. If you rush them while they are in that phase, they simply can't answer properly.

If you want better challenge, allow AIs some time to develop, and don't play the as main AI bully - the Drengin. However even when AIs get a decent start, don't expect miracles from them. They can make good econ, but they still lack skills in warfare department.  If you want a serious challenge I'm affraid you need a live opponent(s).

BR,  Iztok 

Reply #7 Top

Quoting IztokBitenc, reply 6

If you want better challenge, allow AIs some time to develop, and don't play the as main AI bully - the Drengin. However even when AIs get a decent start, don't expect miracles from them. They can make good econ, but they still lack skills in warfare department.  If you want a serious challenge I'm affraid you need a live opponent(s).

BR,  Iztok 
End of IztokBitenc's quote

 

Sure, why not play against live opponents? What a brilliant idea. I'll just hop on Multiplayer that this game so graciously provides.

 

Why should we purposefully gimp ourselves and hold back in a game whose selling point was the "awesome" AI?

Reply #8 Top

Hi!

Sure, why not play against live opponents? What a brilliant idea. I'll just hop on Multiplayer that this game so graciously provides.?
End of quote
You probably missed I haven't mentioned GC-2 when I mentioned live opponent(s). There are other 4x MP games around.

Why should we purposefully gimp ourselves and hold back...
End of quote
Ever heard of handicaps? ;-)

... in a game whose selling point was the "awesome" AI?
End of quote
Awesome AI for a casual player. IMO you expect too much of a challenge from a 40$ game. AI simply isn't in your league. But that's exactly why demos are for. You probably didn't play it, did you?

BR,  Iztok

Reply #9 Top

I got a very different impression from the reviews. This game has been likened to Civ4 and Masters of Orion by the reviews that are so proudly exhibited on the main GalCiv2.com page. Maybe I'm looking too deep, maybe the reviewers have the intelligence of a fruitfly(which wouldn't be a big of a stretch).

Don't get me wrong, I think GalCiv2 is a pretty damn good game, but the AI has been seriously overhyped. When the AI, on its highest intelligence level, starts sending ships with 0 attack at you, you know something is wrong(this was posted by someone else on this forum).

Reply #10 Top

Quoting IztokBitenc, reply 8
Hi!


Sure, why not play against live opponents? What a brilliant idea. I'll just hop on Multiplayer that this game so graciously provides.?
End of IztokBitenc's quote
You probably missed I haven't mentioned GC-2 when I mentioned live opponent(s). There are other 4x MP games around.

End of quote

and you probably missed that you are posting in a GalCiv2 message board

Reply #11 Top

May I suggest a different take on the data in the above posts?

If:

1)You want more of a challenge, and

2) The AI is a bit limited during the Colony Rush phase, then

3) Adjust the game set-up to shorten the Colony Rush phase.

One way is to reduce the number of empty habitable planets, perhaps by making the galaxy smaller or by changing the habitable planets setting, or even both.  If there is an option to eliminate adverse environment planets that can be colonized after researching the tech, select that also.  Note though, that if you do that last one, you might want to either turn off mega-abilities or manually select the AIs so as not to include any of the AIs that use a lot of their race set-up "points" to start with that colonizing capability as a mega-ability.