BenderB

Join Date 04/2009

Advice needed: Counter for Erebus and UB dual freeze

Hi all,

I've been playing against a couple of friends who seem to have created a combination that i can't beat.

One plays as Erebus, the other UB.

It's a simple combination:

Erebus will teleport in, and cast freeze(?), which will freeze a demi for 2 or 3 seconds.

UB will follow up, and cast fowl gasp(?), which will then freeze again for 2 or 3 seconds.

I can't, no matter what I try, break this combination. I'm dead before, or just after, I recover from the freeze. Even if I've got some great equipment and high health, it's a null-sum game as by that time, they'll also have decent equipment and still reduce my health dramatically rendering me without a chance of recovery.

When I see Erebus teleporting in, I can try to cast Silence as Sedna, or just run the hell out of there as anyone else. Nothing seems to make a difference though, as even if I can stop Erebus for a moment, UB will freeze me by the time Erebus is unfrozen...

If I was Oak, I'd say that I *might* be able to cast a shield to last the time of the freeze, but I'm unsure.

Any advice?

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What are you playing?

Generally, AVOID 2v1 situations. Can't stress that enough. You can get surprised by an incoming bat swarm, not seeing an UB is an (unforgivable) mistake.

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Thanks for the reply.

Quoting Ezzekhiel,

reply 1

Generally, AVOID 2v1 situations. Can't stress that enough. You can get surprised by an incoming bat swarm, not seeing an UB is an (unforgivable) mistake.

That's obvious, of course it's not a good idea to try to fight 2 on 1 at any time. However, given that UB and Erebus are 2 of the fastest in the game, and there's many times where it is unavoidable, especially when erebus can teleport across gaps that the rest of us have to walk around. Furthermore, erebus can actually stay hidden in FOW while UB runs ahead, therefore giving a surprise 2v1 easily.

Now, this scenario also applies to 2v2 encounters. Actually, it's even more relevant with 2v2 encounters, as the use of this double-freeze combination renders a 2v2 into a 2v1 very quickly.

What I'm asking for is advice on how to beat this combination, if it's even possible.

I'll even expand the question, and ask how to escape from this combination also.

I can beat either of these players 1 on 1, as Sedna and as TB. It's just 2v2 and surprise 2v1 that i'd like help with.

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I might try the Orb of Defiance.

No damage for 5 seconds. Can't move, but if i'm double-stunned I can't move anyway... might work.

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I don't think you can beat them, but maybe run away. If playing against these guys, i'd recommend getting a lot of HP and armor items, I usually look for at least 35% armor when i play TB.

Orb of Defiance – 3750g
Instant
35 sec. cooldown
+500 Health
+500 Armor
Use:  Become invulnerable for 5 seconds.  Cannot move, attack or use 
abilities.

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Did you try to put up some observation wards so that you can see them coming? This will give you some extra time to get the hell out of there if you are on your own.

maybe if you use a Rook to stun them with Boulder roll when they are close or at least 1 of them and then immidiatly hammer slam them to do massive amounts of damage. This will only work if you have an Oak or something with Shield because you will still take massive amounts of damage. Unclean will spit you immidiatly after you hammer slam him and erebus will prolly start his stun by now or has already did. Now that I think about it, you need to stun both Erebus and UB for this to work because if you only stun unclean Erebus will Batswarm in and stun you before your slow hammer can come down.

Hmm this is troubling. Though I believe there must be a way to counter it. Maybe an Oak and Sedna. Or maybe try the the same as they use to really test your skillzzz

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Quoting Ezzekhiel,

reply 1

Generally, AVOID 2v1 situations. Can't stress that enough. You can get surprised by an incoming bat swarm, not seeing an UB is an (unforgivable) mistake.

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In your particullar case, this item might help overcome at least 1 stun, but i'm not sure if you can use it while stunned. In other words, you will need to activate just before being engaged or spam the button during the first stun to avoid the second one.

Orb of Defiance – 3750g
Instant
35 sec. cooldown
+500 Health
+500 Armor
Use: Become invulnerable for 5 seconds. Cannot move, attack or use
abilities.

The problem with using that strategy is that all this will do is delay everything for 5 seconds. If you use it before the first stun, they will just wait until it's effect wears off and then do the double stun. If you do it after the first before the second, you are giving the player that already used his stun at a chance to use it again by the time that 5 seconds passes. And if you are fighting 2v2 you are leaving your ally 2v1 for that 5 seconds.

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I'UB Stun has 15 sec cd, Erebus mass charm has 20 sec, so it should give you time to start running before it's available again.

As Ice TB for instance, with the trinket you can avoid taking damage of one stun, and once both stuns are fired you can freeze back and run. Same with Sedna, you can place a heal and start running. I'm not saying it will work every time but it's worth a try.

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If they are playing well there really isn't alot you can do except stack health/movement items to try to escape the initial burst of damage, stuns and slows into towers, even sticking with a teammate isn't often viable, because the self heal from Foul Grasp and Bite will usually allow both Erebus and UB to escape alive after firing all their burst damage/stuns on one of you likely securing a kill.

All Erebus has to do is Bats in out of fog of war and hit Mass Charm, If you pop Orb of Defiance before the initial stun you will have Bite, Spit and Foul Grasp waiting for you as soon as it runs out or worse you will get to watch as your teammate gets the brunt of all their abilities if they were nearby, while you stand there frozen for 5 seconds feeling a bit stupid, and if their target is still alive after it they're not going to be going anywhere without an instant teleport item or ability because of the slow from Bite and Diseased Claws.

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I can say that Erebus has one of the longest warm-ups in the game for his Mass Charm. I think the only slower effects are the Tower of Power and Hammer Smash. I believe, it's just over 2 secs.

Learn interrupts. Certain attacks will trump others. Knowing which attacks can "block" another is important. When an attack is interrupted, I believe the mana is spent, the ability is activated and must cool down.

As Sedna, start off with Silence or Pounce (though Pounce will be VERY close). You might get both Erebus and UB and be able to run. With Sedna, you have an inherent speed boost which you'll need.

As Oak, use Penitence. Once the circle of light starts, Erebus can't cancel, You'll interrupt him and he will be open and Vulnerable. Again, the the mana is spent and ability is still invoked and must cool down. Then use Shield to avoid the UB. Or take the UB's hit and Shield, pop a potion, and Work toward Friendly support.

Frost TB can use Frost Nova, then Rain of Ice, Finishing with a 100 yd dash.

As Erebus, use Mist to avoid the initial attack, Bat out, or prep to drop a poisoned pot.

QOT has bramble shield to block most of the damage. Fire TB, Rook, and Regulus should run at the first sight of UB or Erebus.

Depending on the map, you might find their tight integration to work to your advantage. On a larger map, they can only be in one place.

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Quoting Magus-K,

reply 10

I can say that Erebus has one of the longest warm-ups in the game for his Mass Charm. I think the only slower effects are the Tower of Power and Hammer Smash. I believe, it's just over 2 secs.

Learn interrupts. Certain attacks will trump others. Knowing which attacks can "block" another is important. When an attack is interrupted, I believe the mana is spent, the ability is activated and must cool down.

As Sedna, start off with Silence or Pounce (though Pounce will be VERY close). You might get both Erebus and UB and be able to run. With Sedna, you have an inherent speed boost which you'll need.

As Oak, use Penitence. Once the circle of light starts, Erebus can't cancel, You'll interrupt him and he will be open and Vulnerable. Again, the the mana is spent and ability is still invoked and must cool down. Then use Shield to avoid the UB. Or take the UB's hit and Shield, pop a potion, and Work toward Friendly support.

Frost TB can use Frost Nova, then Rain of Ice, Finishing with a 100 yd dash.

As Erebus, use Mist to avoid the initial attack, Bat out, or prep to drop a poisoned pot.

QOT has bramble shield to block most of the damage. Fire TB, Rook, and Regulus should run at the first sight of UB or Erebus.

Depending on the map, you might find their tight integration to work to your advantage. On a larger map, they can only be in one place.

Interrupts would be effective once abilities responded accurately, but at the moment I'm regularly having to activate things like Penitence and Pounce more than 3 times before it will go off even after I move my Demigod. It's not just me still getting the unresponsiveness right?

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Quoting IllegalDustbin,

reply 11

No, it's definitely not just you.

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make your teammate go Sedna

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Or oak.. nothing says 'f-you' to a stun lock like 3 or 4 seconds of invulnerability.

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Thanks everyone for your advice.

One of the major troubles I guess is that they're always allies, and have this worked out, and since they're sharing the same office I imagine they're also in close communication.

It makes it difficult when I play against them as my ally is usually someone who is just in the game, not anyone that I can coordinate closely with.

For the next game, I think I'll try a few different things.

I'll try to stack on my speed and health items, will also try to hold the Orb of Defiance and see how that works.

I'll play as Sedna, and ensure I've got my Silence going, as well as a decent heal.

I will also report back my findings!

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