Diplomacy: does human got penalized?

from Stardock Forums
I've played few games so far and found that diplomacy tends to be near useless unless...

Well, first of all, AI will rarely accept even deals, even with 100% diplomatic bonus given to human (populists+DT+70% in picks in v.1.03). Why? C'mon, I wouldn't think of Industrial Theory to be so important (one of the cheapest techs so far) but why they want Trade+something else for that? Put aside all weapon techs.. God, it is impossible to excange something like Corvet (sp?) technology till you have dreads. And who would care than?

All comments/complaints above based on playing with all AI on bright. I've read that it becomes almost impossible to trade techs at higher AI difficulties but for TG. My question is: Why damn AI players trade one with another? And on equivalent basis? Why developers said several times that AI does not have any bonuses compare to human till Genius difficulty? Even if they have 85% of my income, they need to do ~1/6 of my research till late middle phase of the game.

I would think that large diplo bonus should help bit more, considering not that low cost. If the player can't negotiate techs trade, why AI should (aside from making games, aaarghh, masochistic ;) )?

~SDC~
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Diplomacy works, but there are some techs that have extreme perceived values on the part of the AI (Industrial Theory being one of them). I just accept it as a quirk of the AI and research it myself. I've noticed as of the latest patch that the deflectors "loophole" has been eliminated, as it's now also one of the ridiculously overvalued techs.

It is, I suppose, an attempt to simulate how a human player would probably not hand you key techs that would give you a significant miliatary or economic edge no matter how fair the trade supposedly was on paper.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Getting the hang of diplomacy in GalCiv takes time. The FIRST thing to know, which will explain your problems with industrial theory and corvettes, is that the computer *hates* to trade for certain techs. Mostly they are ship techs, but for some random reason industrial theory is one of them. Try this some time. Get behind on the defensive part of the tree and then go to trade with the computers. They will trade you shields more readily than they will trade you deflectors. WTF? Anyway, learn what you can and can't trade for.

I also suspect that the computers like each other better than they like you. Typically I am doing about two times as much research as the next couple empires combined, but they always keep up or even surpass me on technology.

-Drake

~SDC~
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
AI will rarely accept even deals, even with 100% diplomatic bonus given to human (populists+DT+70% in picks in v.1.03). Why?
End of quote
Your deal isn't really good enough. When your trade offer is displayed in yellow, it won't be accepted. Try tweaking the offer until it turns green. I consider it to be a bit strange, but the developers decided that there should not be fair trades by default. To get an AI player to accept a trade, you must give something more.

Also, the AI players tend to closely guard the secrets to building starships - as soon as the trade for information is made, the receiver suddenly becomes much more powerful.

One thing I'd like to see is to see the AI player making trades in more sophisticated manners (i.e. Corvette Technology in exchange for tons and tons of cash). In the current state, the AI player isn't very intellegent, by offering Excalibur Technology just to get Majesty.

I would think that large diplo bonus should help bit more, considering not that low cost. If the player can't negotiate techs trade, why AI should (aside from making games, aaarghh, masochistic )?
End of quote
I have no problem negotiating technologies. Instead of doing the tech-for-tech method, I try to get something extra out of it, such as cash or a trade good. It might not be optimal, but it's worth it.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Diplomacy is more than just trading up techs as well. I tend to use it to sell arms to the minors, get races to pick fights with one another (a huge equalizer ...believe me). It just requires some creativity.

SeanB
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
I use diplomacy a lot.
Sometimes I use it to win (diplomatic victory). Trade properly and races become "close" to you. Offer alliances, and you're done.
Most of the times I use diplomacy to generate loads of cash.

But the most important thing is:

Trade any technology that another race already has to any race that's willing to take it.

The reasoning is that the AI players trade extensively between each other. So what you want to do is reap the rewards of the trading, as long as you know that those techs are going to end up in the hands of everyone anyway.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I'll second forceinfinity's appreciation of getting AIs to bloody each other's noses. This is VERY good if you play anywhere remotely like I do ((a) I'm a casual gamer, and not somebody who'se willing to brutally optimize build orders or otherwise micromanage that much, and (b) in the early game I tend to be a pretty extreme builder instead of trying for a low-tech armada. I'll lag pretty badly in military, but it helps when the AIs lower each others' military ratings for me and keep each other busy.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Diplomacy is great! I'm able to win consistently in 1.04 at Painful by bribing the AI's to attack each other all the time. This keeps them from forming trade router to each other, effectively making sure that all their trade goes through me, which in turn means that they are very reluctant to declare war on me. Don't even need a deterrent navy. And their constant wars mean that they soon lag behind in technology.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Being a tech broker can be a neat deal. I was behind a bit in a game, so I went into debt to get a trade good. Then I talked to the biggest alien on the map, used the good to buy his neat techs, and then did the rounds and sold it all to the other races (major and minor) on the same turn. Later on, using all that tribute money the last round of tech deals brought, I got more neat stuff from the big player. Then went around and sold it to everyone else. I still had a significant military presence, so even though there were some alignment problems and trade routes were not fully established with everyone yet, I was at peace and rolling in cash. Sure, I had no tech advantage, but neither did anybody else!
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Has anybody made a definitive list of the AI value for techs? That is, I've seen tables that summarize the research cost. Are there any tables that summarize the AI percived value?

This way, it'd be good to know what techs I should trade for, and what techs I probably should research myself.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
The GCTech.TECH file has a line for AI and a number, which I presume is a weight for determining value as well as perhaps research priority.

Bruce
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
#9 fsk+, no idea if the tables exist.
But they'd be obsolete very quickly. In almost every patch these AI percieved values change.
Response #2 in this thread is good enough as far as I'm concerned. Those broad strokes are relatively consistent across AI patches.