Surprise! I Am An Extremist Also

I Didn't Think So Until Today

http://www.creators.com/opinion/oliver-north.html?columnsName=ono
from JoeUser Forums

"According to the U.S. government, I am an extremist.  I am a Christian and meet regularly with other Christians to study God's word.  My faith convinces me the prophecies in the Holy Bible are true.  I believe in the sanctity of human life, oppose abortion, and want to preserve marriage as the union of a man and a woman." 

Wow!  While I would like to take credit for the above quote because it's exactly what I could say as well, I can't.  This was written by Oliver North in this week's paper.  He went on to say some very alarming things about what's going on in our Federal government. 

"I am a Veteran with skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat.  I own several firearms and I frequently shoot them,  buy ammunition, and consider efforts to infringe on my Second Amendment rights to be wrong and unconstitutional. 

I fervently support the sovereignty of the United States, and I am deeply concerned about our economy, increasingly higher taxes, illegal immigration, soaring unemployment, and actions by our government that will bury my children beneath a mountain of debt. 

Apparently, all this makes me a "right wing extremist."  At least that's what it says in the April 7 "Assessment" issued by the Office of Intelligence and Analysis at the Department of Homeland Security.  The nine-page report, titled "Right wing Extremism:  Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment," is full of warnings about American citizens who share any part of my background or subscribe to the beliefs above.  It is one of the most alarming documents produced by our government that I have ever read. 

Evidently neither you nor I ever was suppoed to read this "Assessment."  At the bottom of the cover page is a warning that it is "not to be released to the public, the media, or other personnel who do not have a valid need-to-know." 

He goes on to say that law enforcement will be notified about our "right wing extremist" views as soon as we're found out.  How many remember Obama making mention of a Federal Police force?    It was one of those very quickly, passed by the media,  forgotten campaign promise.  Why would we need a Federal Police Force? 

Now it makes sense. 

North goes on to report:

"Though the report proffers a passing reference to the First Amendment, it is replete with bias against conservative thought, writing and communications.  On Page 3, the law enforcement authorities are warned "Right wing extremist chatter on the Internet continues to focus on the economy, the perceived (emphasis added) loss of U.S. jobs in the manufacturing and construction sectors, and home foreclosures." 

"That is a frightening acknowledgement that political speech is being monitored in America.  It is also wrong.  It's not "perception."  It is fact.  According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the manufacturing and construction sectors have lost 161,000 jobs and 126,000 jobs, respectively, last month alone." 

So what do you think the chances are that the President will distance himself from thie report publicly and fire the officials behind this? 

You can check the link for the complete article.  He ends the whole article with"

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."  Barry Goldwater

 

 

democrat
24,340 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

I think my definition of extremism was better.

~Zoo

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

It seems these days that anyone that actually cares about what is going on in our government, and refuses to be spoonfed mainstream media bs, is an extremist. 

Only those that live their lives in the delusion that our country is perfectly fine, our economy is in a temporary dip, and our government can be trusted, are the ones that aren't considered extremists.

It kind of reminds me of the society in "V for Vendetta," which is how, I feel, we are slowly becoming.   

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

It seems these days that anyone that actually cares about what is going on in our government, and refuses to be spoonfed mainstream media bs, is an extremist.

Only those that live their lives in the delusion that our country is perfectly fine, our economy is in a temporary dip, and our government can be trusted, are the ones that aren't considered extremists.

It kind of reminds me of the society in "V for Vendetta," which is how, I feel, we are slowly becoming.
End of quote

 

Perhaps, I think we're going to need a revolution. Maybe the people will get their heads out of their behinds concerning the us/them mentality. It's *that* mentality that brought us to this point.

 

~KFC~

Anyone remember the adage: United we stand, divided we fall?  Guess what...

 

~A

 

 

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Btw, as for the reports about the big bad terrorists...guess what, what goes around comes around, it seems everyone is getting their share of being called a terrorist.

 

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/780410-SHVVvq/native/780410.PDF

 

Woohoo, lets get those extremists!  o_O

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

Addendum:

 

Oh, and look! Oh my great cheesy pants, look at this snippet of that report. Which was done during the Bush administration mind you.

 

"Leftist extremists are very active for a decade or more, and as
they fade, right-wing extremists become active. During the late 1960s to the middle
1980s, leftist extremism was the greatest threat in the United States. From the mid-1980s
to the present, the major threat of domestic terrorism has been primarily from right-wing
extremists."

 

Now, where was the outrage then?

 

I'm also interested in something. Those who are outraged at that report, which is according to them, labeling right wingers as terrorists. Do you want the truth or PC rhetoric?

 

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

"Leftist extremists are very active for a decade or more, and as
they fade, right-wing extremists become active. During the late 1960s to the middle
1980s, leftist extremism was the greatest threat in the United States. From the mid-1980s
to the present, the major threat of domestic terrorism has been primarily from right-wing
extremists."
End of quote

I think that right-wing extremists are viewed as such threats because they are usually very religious, and would rather depend on their god, or others of their religion, than on the government, whether the government at the time is liberal or conservative.  (Think of the FLDS church, and other such groups.)  This could be cause for concern if addressing national loyalty. 

I read the report, and while much of the wording is mild, the general idea seems to be that if you are concerned about immigration, weapon restrictions, abortion, the economy, then you may be labeled as a right wing extremist.

If you want to read the article, it is linked to this website.  http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/

  (For some reason a direct link wont work for me.)

 

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Silver_and_Jade_Tears, reply 6

"Leftist extremists are very active for a decade or more, and as
they fade, right-wing extremists become active. During the late 1960s to the middle
1980s, leftist extremism was the greatest threat in the United States. From the mid-1980s
to the present, the major threat of domestic terrorism has been primarily from right-wing
extremists."
I think that right-wing extremists are viewed as such threats because they are usually very religious, and would rather depend on their god, or others of their religion, than on the government, whether the government at the time is liberal or conservative.  (Think of the FLDS church, and other such groups.)  This could be cause for concern if addressing national loyalty. 

I read the report, and while much of the wording is mild, the general idea seems to be that if you are concerned about immigration, weapon restrictions, abortion, the economy, then you may be labeled as a right wing extremist.

If you want to read the article, it is linked to this website.  http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/04/12/homeland-security-document-targets-most-conservatives-and-libertarians-in-the-country/

  (For some reason a direct link wont work for me.)

 
End of Silver_and_Jade_Tears's quote

 

I'm not denying the validity of the report, nor denying how absurd it was. My point was: It has and will happen to both, wings, so to speak. It just seems stupid that people are in an uproar about this, when it happened before and no one was concerned. It's ridiculous really.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Perhaps, I think we're going to need a revolution. Maybe the people will get their heads out of their behinds concerning the us/them mentality. It's *that* mentality that brought us to this point.
End of quote

Ooooooh, look, you can be labeled a right-wing extremist too.  A revolution is "anti-government."  Naughty naughty Alderic.  ^_^

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

My point was: It has and will happen to both, wings, so to speak. It just seems stupid that people are in an uproar about this, when it happened before and no one was concerned. It's ridiculous really.
End of quote

I think there are a few different things that factor into this; 

1- The economy.  The bailouts seem to have causes much mistrust in the government by those who previously would accept everything the government said, or did.  When you have no money, and hear the word "billions" in relation to the government rescuing monstrous companies, it is likely to awaken a sort of resentment for the government as a whole.

2- Media.  People are influenced by what they believe is going on around them, and the constant barrage of what they see and hear.  While the daily news capitalizing on negativity is nothing new, there seems to be a large increase in movies that express an apocalyptic/end of world type of feeling, for instance, the movie "Numbers," or "The Day the Earth Stood Still," etc.  Not only movies, but the whole belief that something may happen in 2012. 

 There are also increasing amounts of mainstream musicians that question our government through their music, Linkin Park, NIN, and the Flobots, and that can validate our doubts and fears of the government that the economy, and bailouts, have awoken.

When you mix a bad economy with media that revolves around the end of the world, and begin to look at our corrupted government, there is a perception change among people, and perception is reality.

A report like this validates people's fears about the state of our country, and even, our world.

 

 

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

I've had my eye on getting an H&K USC recently. Granted, I know that I don't have a license (I'm pretty sure it counts as a handgun under my state regulations, and handguns need a license here), and I'm not old enough yet, but it'd make a liberal cry.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Silver_and_Jade_Tears, reply 8

Perhaps, I think we're going to need a revolution. Maybe the people will get their heads out of their behinds concerning the us/them mentality. It's *that* mentality that brought us to this point.
Ooooooh, look, you can be labeled a right-wing extremist too.  A revolution is "anti-government."  Naughty naughty Alderic. 
End of Silver_and_Jade_Tears's quote

 

Darn straight, heh. ;P

 

Quoting Silver_and_Jade_Tears, reply 9

My point was: It has and will happen to both, wings, so to speak. It just seems stupid that people are in an uproar about this, when it happened before and no one was concerned. It's ridiculous really.
I think there are a few different things that factor into this; 

1- The economy.  The bailouts seem to have causes much mistrust in the government by those who previously would accept everything the government said, or did.  When you have no money, and hear the word "billions" in relation to the government rescuing monstrous companies, it is likely to awaken a sort of resentment for the government as a whole.

2- Media.  People are influenced by what they believe is going on around them, and the constant barrage of what they see and hear.  While the daily news capitalizing on negativity is nothing new, there seems to be a large increase in movies that express an apocalyptic/end of world type of feeling, for instance, the movie "Numbers," or "The Day the Earth Stood Still," etc.  Not only movies, but the whole belief that something may happen in 2012. 

 There are also increasing amounts of mainstream musicians that question our government through their music, Linkin Park, NIN, and the Flobots, and that can validate our doubts and fears of the government that the economy, and bailouts, have awoken.

When you mix a bad economy with media that revolves around the end of the world, and begin to look at our corrupted government, there is a perception change among people, and perception is reality.

A report like this validates people's fears about the state of our country, and even, our world.

 

 
End of Silver_and_Jade_Tears's quote

 

Agreed

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

If this is the Oliver North who was heavily involved with the Contras in Nicaragua, he's not just an extremist, but he's helped to fund terrorism in the past too.

You may take some comfort in knowing, KFC, that by being a literalist you are by definition an extremist. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, but anyone who lives exactly according to the words of a book - whether that's the Bible, the Quran, or even the Little Red Book - is an extreme sort of person. As they believe the book contains all the answers to life, they have no need for anything else, and that can be stretched to include other people. It can - and I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you - but it can have a strong dehumanising aspect.

Religious extremism is familiar, but the lack of compromise can make it dangerous to the body politic if it gets too much control - eg when it happened in Iran, or the eventual fate of the Vatican states, or nearly any communist state.

Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top

You may take some comfort in knowing, KFC, that by being a literalist you are by definition an extremist. It doesn't mean you're a bad person, but anyone who lives exactly according to the words of a book - whether that's the Bible, the Quran, or even the Little Red Book - is an extreme sort of person.
End of quote

Yes I can see that as well.  I take it as a compliment though not as a bad thing.  I'm hoping others see in me Christ as I follow him.  It's all about Him and not about me.  I used to be somewhat more about the do's and don'ts but have matured and gotten past that and can see it's not about that at all really.  It's all about giving back to God with a willing heart because of what he's done for me. 

As they believe the book contains all the answers to life, they have no need for anything else, and that can be stretched to include other people.
End of quote

well that's not supposed to be the case.....that indeed is extreme.  While the good book is and should be our manual for everyday living, people are important to us and to God.  God uses people to accomplish his will.  That's why the church was set up.  The whole reason for the meeting together is not only to worship God but to edify each other.  As more and more secular and less and less bible believers are taking over the churches, we are forgetting these things. 

Religious extremism is familiar, but the lack of compromise can make it dangerous to the body politic if it gets too much control - eg when it happened in Iran, or the eventual fate of the Vatican states, or nearly any communist state.
End of quote

Yes, agreed.  My biblical beliefs are not necessarily tied to any religion per se.  My biblical belief is that I've been set free from all of that and want to see others set free as well.  So I'm pretty far away from real extremism when it comes to forcing anyone to do anything.  Mostly because I know....it's not about me.

I've never gone to rallys or held a sign in my hand or paced in front of an abortion clinic.  I'm not into that nor would I see Christ (the one I follow) do such a thing.  I don't necessarily think God is all that pleased with these things.  But maybe it's because I'm just not led and others are? 

God  said, speak out, give out the truth and if they accept it, fine you've gained a brother.  If not, kick the dirt off your feet and move on.  That's my philosophy as well.  I believe in more the grass roots approach more than anything.  One soul at a time.  Show them the truth and if they accept they will also be set free.  "The truth will set you free." 

The government is doing just the opposite.  They are working on enslaving us more and more everyday. 

The thing about compromise is that as the world gets further and further away from God and his ideals the bigger the gap will be for Christians and the secular.  It's going to get harder and harder to compromise because there is just some things we can't compromise on without messing with the truth. 

 

Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

The bailouts seem to have causes much mistrust in the government by those who previously would accept everything the government said, or did
End of quote

Finally people are waking up.  Maybe, just maybe, the next mid term election will bear fruit and many of the bad fruit trees will be hewn down.  There's a whole of pruning that needs to be done. 

While the daily news capitalizing on negativity is nothing new, there seems to be a large increase in movies that express an apocalyptic/end of world type of feeling, for instance, the movie "Numbers," or "The Day the Earth Stood Still," etc. Not only movies, but the whole belief that something may happen in 2012.
End of quote

We just watched a new movie now out called "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage.  It was pretty good and along this same theme. 

I happen to believe we are entering into a last day scenerio.  Not just because I'm jumping on any bandwagon.  If you could, I'd tell you to question those around me.  I've been preaching alot of this since I was a kid and started reading the bible prophecies and commentators  way back in the 70's when we didn't have a hint or notion that these things could really happen.  It wasn't set up back then to be a reality even tho many still predicted the "end of the world" stuff.  The computers for one thing were just starting to be utilized at a very basic level.  It's like everything is rapidly moving in that direction now.  One world order.  One world government.  One world economy.  This is all predicted and never before our time could we even hint of this becoming a reality.  Revelation 17 & 18 is all about this with the whore of Babylon (false corrupted religion) riding the back of government (anti-Christ) until the AC shakes her off his back. 

Obama is using the bad ecomony to entirely turn this country in another direction.  He's making decisions and putting people in places that we would never have agreed to before.  But because of the situation he's getting away with it because people think there's no other way.  If they just let certain companies fail and let the economy take care of itself, things would have corrected all by itself  Now we're in a bigger mess with no end in sight. 

A report like this validates people's fears about the state of our country, and even, our world.
End of quote

Yes it sure does. 

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Anyone remember the adage: United we stand, divided we fall? Guess what...
End of quote

well tell that to Obama......who didn't even know anything (so he says) about the tea parties all over kingdom come.  Hundreds of thousands all making their voices heard through impassioned speeches and signs and the White House had no such knowledge? 

tell that to Obama who went to Europe and dissed America calling us arrogant and other such terms recently.  I wouldn't exactly say he was uniting Americans here. 

He's not in touch with the common people.  Planting a garden and having an easter egg hunt is not doing it in my book. 

 

 

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

who didn't even know anything (so he says) about the tea parties all over kingdom come.
End of quote

 

That is not all that surprising when considering that most presidents - so far as i've read - don't read the newspaper or watch the news; they tend to be a rather sheltered lot. It was the same way with Bush, and Clinton.

 

tell that to Obama who went to Europe and dissed America calling us arrogant and other such terms recently. I wouldn't exactly say he was uniting Americans here.
End of quote

 

Guess what, we are arrogant. Sorry, that's blunt and not Politically Correct, but it's the truth. We're a powerful nation that has, admittedly, shown a great deal of arrogance. Save countries like Iran, North Korea, et al., why do you think that some of our close friends, so to speak, started disliking us?

He's not in touch with the common people.
End of quote

 

Perhaps, but so was Bush, Clinton, etc. The same argument has been used for presidents for years.

 

~Alderic

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

BTW, my point in providing the adage was to point out, that while you can point the finger at Obama and his administration all you want, and die hard liberals can point all the fingers they have at Bush, but the fact is...neither of you groups are helping.

 

No more finger pointing, it's time for accountability and dialogue - not rhetoric and idealogues.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

No more finger pointing, it's time for accountability and dialogue - not rhetoric and idealogues.
End of quote

So just how do you propose scrutiny of the current administration without hurting someones feelings? Or are you suggesting there can be no criticism of the administration regardless and we should all just accept what ever happens? There was plenty of criticism of Bush policies during his term here, and rightly so. If Obama and congress are to be left off the hook, who should we hold responsible? We can blame America as seems to be currently in fashion with the majority, but that's a little to simplistic wouldn't you say? We could blame ourselves, but this is he age of little self responsibility as we all need the governments loving hand to guide us. Face it there was no love then, do you really expect it now?

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

So just how do you propose scrutiny of the current administration without hurting someones feelings? Or are you suggesting there can be no criticism of the administration regardless and we should all just accept what ever happens? There was plenty of criticism of Bush policies during his term here, and rightly so. If Obama and congress are to be left off the hook, who should we hold responsible? We can blame America as seems to be currently in fashion with the majority, but that's a little to simplistic wouldn't you say? We could blame ourselves, but this is he age of little self responsibility as we all need the governments loving hand to guide us. Face it there was no love then, do you really expect it now?
End of quote

 


By no finger pointing, I'm saying:

Sit down.

 

Shush up. (Due to KFC's request on language)

 

Hold on.

 

I'm not saying no criticism, but criticise where it is due. Please, please, don't become another party goat, walking in step or nodding your head like a manipulated bobble head doll. Use your head, and be willing to admit when someone does something right. (You = rhetorically). I'm sick and tired of hearing Hannity, Limbaugh, O Reilly, etc. as well as their liberal counterparts mindlessly bash. It's the same stuff we had with Bush.

Give ideas, push suggestions. Not rhetoric.

 

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

O Reilly often has positive words for the president (as recently as last night in fact), you just don't hear them in the liberal media. It sounds like you nailed the problem, unfortunately your own bias is part of it as well. Not your fault, everyone has them, first step is admitting it. Referring to one as a "party goat" or any other self-righteous indignation will solve nothing, especially since nobody here has an intimate knowledge of any other members philosophy, political or otherwise.

Each article posted on JU seems to be about a particular policy. You either agree or disagree with it. I haven't seen any article that state "it's bad because Rush Limbaugh says so". To allude to that sort of thinking is elitist in nature, and unfair. Many of the people you interact with on this site had plenty of criticism for the previous administration as well. Had you been here longer you would know this.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

O Reilly often has positive words for the president (as recently as last night in fact), you just don't hear them in the liberal media. It sounds like you nailed the problem, unfortunately your own bias is part of it as well. Not your fault, everyone has them, first step is admitting it. Referring to one as a "party goat" or any other self-righteous indignation will solve nothing, especially since nobody here has an intimate knowledge of any other members philosophy, political or otherwise.
End of quote

 

1. I actually did hear about it, and was pleased. 2. The goat comment was, as i stated, rhetorical. 3. I realize that, and know it isn't my fault. :P 4. It wasn't self-righteous indignation, it was being blunt and honest. 5. You were saying about self rightousness? ;)

 

Each article posted on JU seems to be about a particular policy. You either agree or disagree with it. I haven't seen any article that state "it's bad because Rush Limbaugh says so". To allude to that sort of thinking is elitist in nature, and unfair. Many of the people you interact with on this site had plenty of criticism for the previous administration as well. Had you been here longer you would know this.
End of quote

 

Again, my statements are rhetorical. It was not directed at any particular person; maybe I should start putting a disclaimer? Also, I have been here for a while. All in all, I've been here - if I remember correctly - since late 2005. So, almost 4 years.

(Holy Jesus?! I can't believe it really has been that long...)

 

~A