Keeping Tax Rate at 20%???

20% taxes may be good at tiny, there you can get all income you need from trade. On gigantic it's hard to get that much from trade.

Or it's may be good at the start of the game.

Difference between 30% taxes ad 50% taxes - 48 morale. It's slightly less between 20% and 40%. Entertainment Network gives 56 morale. So i'm suggesting to build morale improvement on all planets and set taxes to at least 40%.

~SDC~

So, the 20% is really good only on tiny galaxies? I've pretty much gone back to doin what you basically described. That strategy sounded interesting, so I thought I'd experiment. Liked the pop growth but not the ever growing deficit.

On tiny, I use 0% taxes most of the time (actually, more, up to 40% which still gives 100% morale). I bet you can get 20% on medium maps, but you need trade and maybe bonus trade picks.

My problem with low tax rate is it renders your economic improvements useless. After the initial colonization phase I usually lock in at 35%. Later I'll try to nudge it up to 40% and then 50%, as my +morale and +econ improvements really start to kick in on the key planets. The not-so-good planets I can help out with a little propaganda, and/or load Transports with them.

Nothing like a few Transports to do some Tech "research" for you.

20% tax rate sacrifices some revenue for a rapid increase in population. If you're spending 50% and running a deficit, decrease spending. How easy is that?

As for these 60% tax rates, they are self-crippling past the very early stages of the game (and some people go the opposite way and run very low tax rates early, where they may be population-constrained).


~SDC~

I'm not sure that 20% taxes is best on tiny. Your trade route income is partially dependent on the tax revenue on the system that's trading. You really should make sure you're at the 4xPQ taxes cap in your trading system.

It's hard to know the tax rate that maximizes income. It depends on your social project, morale bonus, and economic bonus.

How much? I don't tested it. (I thought that trade not dependant on 'real' taxes, just on maximum taxes).
P.S. It's possible to live on Gigantic/Abudant with 0% taxes.
~SDC~
[Message Edited]

Moral is very important to keeping power in a civilization. So keeping your tax rates low (~35%) is very helpful. 60% is almost suicide, you are asking to lose the senate.

Tax income works such that there is close to a direct relationship between yield and tax rate up to 35%.

After 35%, diminishing returns kick in. If you slide the bar up and down, you'll notice that anything higher than 45% doesn't really effect your tax income much. After 65% you'll start having less income.

Tax income from a planet is determined by tax percentage and the population of the planet. The higher the population, the more income you get. Since your population grows based on moral, there's even more incentive to keep tax rates lower. There might be a dependence on PQ in here too, but someone will have to check that.

You also get income based solely on the PQ of the planet. The higher the PQ, the greater the income.

Add these two together and you get the total base income from a planet. Add all your modifiers and you get actual income. You'll hit economic inefficiency at 2xPQ, but economic income above 2XPQ is still doable. However, income above 4xPQ are severely penalized.

Although not all of this income is taxation, in your economic view, all this income is collectively designated as "taxation."

As for trade income, it depends on the wealth (PQ and economic improvements) and the population (population) of source and destination planets. Government income from the planet does not matter.

THE CONCLUSION:
Do not attempt to have income above 4xPQ. If it comes inadvertently because other planets are in the 2xPQ range, it's fine.

On large maps where income comes from taxation more than from trade, try to put all your planets close to 4xPQ but not over. Limit the number of social projects each planet should build, social projects that only one or two planets would need to build (capitals,trade goods) should be leased. Try buying resource starbases from the AI for economic, research, and moral bonuses rather than building social projects. Tax rate should float around ~35%.

On smaller maps, trade is essential. Starbases for trade bonus are very important, but is also a double-edged sword, since your trade partner gets as much benefit out of it as you do. You'll want to grow your population as fast as you can to maximize trade revenue, and because planetary income or "taxation" is relatively unimportant, you should consider lowering your tax rate to raise moral rather than building moral social projects.

This way you can avoid the really expensive projects like virtual reality center or harmony generator until after you have researched techs needed to build teleporter, stock market, and stadium which are far cheaper.in both upkeep and construction costs.

So yeah 20% tax rate in tiny might not be such a bad idea.
[Message Edited]

On tiny/Challenging I run at 0% most of the time. Right off the hop.

Trade is VERY important. I also run at 100% spending.



~SDC~

Maike Geng's comments are great, but the precise figures mentioned (35% etc) are infact arbitrary, and change depending on game situation. For example, in my current game, the tax rate I can charge which leaves morale at 100% and maximixes tax revenue is 92%. (Late game: lots of improvements!). At the very start, it was 52%. But I did spend a lot of time in the 30-40% bracket during the game.

NOTE: "Economy" only affects income from taxation, which is based on pop and tax rate, so high pops and higher tax rates let your economy modifiers do more for you...

My little experience agrees with Ralegh. It looks to me like you can set a very high tax rate in a large map late in the game. Build lot of improvements and put Zeta excavations on the Morale resources around the map. From mining, I gained a crazy +250% MORALE on a gigantic map, which ultimately helped me to keep moral at 90 with a 75% tax rate.

Anyone here know of any tax (etc.) scheme where you can have spending set at 100%? Even with that high tax, I would have lost thousands of BC per turn with 100% spending had I not sold a lot of tech, which I understand is unprofitable at high difficulty.

Tristan - you've just built lots of manufacturing and research enhancements. If I am in military or social mode, I am often in 100% spend. Its only research (for me) where my capacity to spend is often lots more than my income...

I also believe there is a "double Bell-curve" taxation effect on Huge/Gigantic maps. Revenue appears to peak between 30-35% initially, decline between 36-51%, then increase again 52-54%.

This is modifiable, dependent of morale-bonus structures and SB benefits.

~SDC~

A second note:

Production time (turns to completion) appear to increase by 1 at the second Bell-curve...the "trade-off" for increased revenue.

~SDC~

Easily. Keep in mind that the more manufacturing/research capability you have, the more you have to spend to USE it. As an experiment, try this sometime: don't build ANY manufacturing improvements, anywhere. Build banks, hab, soil, e. net everywhere. Now set your taxes as high as you can and keep 100% morale on most of your planets. You should be able at this point to spend at 100% and make several hundred bc/turn.

Now build your manuf. improvements. Start with fusion/anti-matter plants, then move to capitals where applicable and MFC elsewhere. Result: all of a sudden you can't spend at 100% any more. Now, you're making about as much (minus some maint. on the MFC's which don't give econ. bonuses to compensate)...but you have the OPTION of spending a whole lot more.

See how it works now?

-EtherMage




~SDC~

As a variantion on EtherMage's post (#15):

a) At start, do not build any social improvements except +PQ ones (Soil Enhancements/Hab Improvements). Instead, claim/seize all bonus resources discovered, and research the SB module techs (Cold Fusion/Art Grav/Hyperspace/Lg Scale Bldg/Interstellar Refining/Nano Mining/4D Phasing).

Build Banks, Entertqainment Centers, Stock Markets (Interstellar Capitalism), Economic Exchanges (Advanced Trade), Research Labs, Shipyards & Embassies (if needed) on all planets.

c) Maximize available trade routes; build sufficient SF's/Corv's to keep in 2nd-3rd place militarily.

d) Research Battleships/Dreadnoughts and start campaigning.

You will find that most medium-size Empires (15-20 colonies) are able to keep morale at 80%+ while setting taxes at 54-58% and spending at 75%+ throughout the game on a Medium or larger map.

~SDC~

I found that by shoving most of my population into combat transports, I could keep morale above 90%, even with taxes of 46% or so. Since the tax income of planets isn't much affected by population level (as long as you still have a couple of billion), my income was probably higher when I had less people.


~SDC~

I generally use high tax rates, usually from 55% to 65%. But you MUST get social improvements for that to work and some of the social trade goods. Otherwise you'll lose the Senate. Late game, I'll lower the rate though since conquered planets have very low morale.

~SDC~

I always have a 20% tax rate and 100% spending with no problems. I usually end up winning cultural victory it seems. Of course I'm playing on normal on gigantic maps. Since I can't submit to metaverse I'll never know what score I get. Besides I usually get bored when I am winning and restart anyway.

Why would anyone ever not manipulate their bars on a regular basis?

Too lazy?

I dont know...

But I never do. Unless there is an emergency or something. I even leavce the tax rate where it is at the start of the game.
I do change the government spending though when needed, but, prefer to sell than reduce it less than 100.


~SDC~

If losing the Senate is even an issue, your taxes are way too high. Your planets should all be over Morale 55,
to get population growth. If you need to adjust Propaganda sliders, do it. Some small planets will even need 1
00 morale.

My experience has been on both ends of the spectrum, in the late game: I've kept taxes down low and still had
plenty of income, and other times taxes are 65% and still 100 Morale. It seems there's diminishing returns
pumping Morale and Economy improvements, mainly because of nthe PQ limits. After a point it's better to pump
+Production and +Trade. There's really two dynamics going on with your economy:
1) Taxes vs. Morale. Taxes lower morale, but you get econ improvements which let you
lower them and morale improvements which let you raise them.
2) Constructors get you +Production, which lets you build more constructors, which lets
you get more +Production, which lets you build more constructors...which lets you
increase trade bonuses...which lets you build more +Production....


Early on you're mostly focusing on 1), because the starbase resources and social improvements
give you so much benefit. But then late game you hit PQ limits and those benefits diminish,
and that's when 2) finally starts gaining some steam. Once you've got 2) revved up, the sky's
the limit. You just have to have the know-how to switch your energies from 1) to 2), and at
the right time. Otherwise you're stuck in a rut pumping Morale and Economy, when most of your
planets are already at 4X PQ limit.

What are the limits for production?


~SDC~