Do the Torians have any hidden bonuses?

It just seems to me that I can make a custom race with the SuperBreeder ability and easily exceed the capabilities of the Torians except for those 2 Logistics points.  Is there some hidden reason why anyone would want to go with the Torians over a custom race that has the SuperBreeder ability?

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Reply #1 Top

The stock races do have some extra inherent bonuses, which you can see if you look at the race.xml file for each one.  You can open it with a text program like notepad, wordpad, etc.

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Reply #2 Top

There aren't any "hidden" bonuses for the races.  All of the inherent abilities and starting techs can be seen in the race setup screens, but you can also view them in the RaceConfig.xml file as mentioned above.  When playing against them, they can have additional boosts in economy and production depending on difficulty level.  However, those can be seen in the race setup screens as well.  The only thing I've found that isn't obvious is they can start with a number of colonizers for higher difficulty levels.

In DA, there's a fairly significant advantage playing as a stock race as opposed to using the custom race.  For example, the Yor and Thalan get get an excellent set of starting techs and have some really nice inherent abilities.  Those can be easily viewed when setting up ability points.  You can't get nearly as much of an advantage using the custom race.  In TA, I've found there to be less of a disparity between the stock races and the custom race.  There are more options for the custom race and the stock races don't get as many starting techs and inherent bonuses.

BTW, all this only matters when playing metaverse.  For non-metaverse games, you can simply set up a mods folder, select "use mods" then run a customized RaceConfig.xml with whatever bonuses you like.  However, be careful not to modify any files outside the mods folder or your games will get flagged as cheats when playing metaverse.

Reply #3 Top

Ok so I checked the xml and I didn't see anything that would make up for the fact that the Torian get only 8 ability points.  It seems quite clear to me that they suck.  Any custom race with the Super Breeder Ability can easily outstrip them.

Just as an example:

Torian start with +8 Logistics, +10 Morale, and +10 Population Growth, I like to add + 10 Planet Quality, +15 Research and +10 Econ.

Now with a custom race I start with +6 Logistics, add +10 Morale, +15 Population Growth, + 10 Planet Quality, +15 Research and +10 Econ and I still have 3 points left!

So I get 5 more in Population growth and 2 less in Logistics and 3 more abiltiy points.  So unless the Torians do have some hidden bonus there's seems to be no point in choosing them.  This is a problem that I think should be addressed.  I guess of course that I could edit the xml myself but this seems like it ought to be something the game designers should never have let happen.  Surely this can't be the first time the issue has been raised?

Reply #4 Top

Well, it's +2logistic vs 4 points trade.

Another reason to play Torians is to not have Torians as enemies. Otherwise AI Torian could snatch Aquatic Transport  Station glactic achivement for himself (if playing ToA).

Then, there is matter of starting homeworld. Torians have small edge here.

Torians start with 9 PQ word with rings and have 6 PQ planet nearby.

Custom race starts with 10 PQ word with moon and 4 PQ planet.

Personally, I think Torians are balanced as is. It's more an issue with Custom Race having all super abilities valued the same. While obviously some abilities, like Super Breeder, are much better then others.

Reply #5 Top

Almost forgot...

Torians start with Stellar Carthography, while custom race can't get. Not much an edge here (since custom race can actually buy more techs).

Reply #6 Top

Ok so I checked the xml and I didn't see anything that would make up for the fact that the Torian get only 8 ability points. It seems quite clear to me that they suck. Any custom race with the Super Breeder Ability can easily outstrip them.
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You haven't mentioned which game you're playing which makes a difference, but in any case, not all races are created equal, custom race included.  The developers have never made any claims they're supposed to be either.  One of the advantages of single player games is that balancing is not as critical.  If GC2 was multi-player, I bet the devs would catch a lot of flack regarding race setup.

I think the idea is to find what works best for how you play.  You may very well be right that Torian has less of an advantage over custom race, and so you should play custom race if that's what you prefer.  Personally, I've found super hive to be the most beneficial ability for my play style.  In DA, I can't get near the advantage with custom race as I can playing Thalan.  In TA, I still like super hive so I'm sort of pigeon holed into custom race because it's the only way to get the factory buildings it works best for right out of the gate. 

Again, all this only applies to totally stock or metaverse games.  For non-metaverse games, you can configure races however you like so if you don't like the way the stock races are set up, just mod them.

Reply #7 Top

You also need to take into account the bonuses they may receive later through their tech tree and their unique improvements(though I haven't play them so I don't know what they are yet) . Even though, as said above the game was never designed for the races to be balanced completely, I think when taking all things into account they are more balanced than one might first suspect.