Help! Minor Races & Trade Goods

Have you ever noticed that nifty "Puchase" button in your planetary management screen? Well, since the AI plays the same game as you do, they get to click on that button too. There have been other threads discussing this issue of course, and no doubt they will have given you the exact same answer as I just did. If you actually did read those threads, you might want ask yourself why you are so eager to believe the AI cheats when it beats you to something...

Actually, you know, funny you should mention it, but I HAVE read those threads, and I DID notice the purchase button. But what I was wondering is, does the AI just basically bankrupt itself into getting these goods, is it perfectly happy to take out extensive loans so that it can have the goods on the front end, or does it just have that much cash to start off with?

And incidentally, there's no need to be rude or snippy in your response. Anyone else got any info on this?

Minors start the game with a little more cash than the human or major races since they are prohibited from expanding beyond their home sector. They recognize that good foreign relations are the key to their survival, so they will attempt to accumulate trade goods for future bargaining.

And incidentally, you are the one being rude and arrogant with the unecessary overtones of your original post. Do you feel we are all fools for not recognizing that the AI cheats as you have so brilliantly determined?

You can get several trade goods before any race does. I almost *always* get tri-blah steel, frictionless clothing, aphrodesiac and diplomatic translators before the other races do (on large or larger maps). I posted a bit on the strategy forum on how I did this. Here is how I manage it at least:

1. Crank military and build colony ships and a couple scouts.. (taxes at around 50, spending as much as I can). I have research at 15% typically at this point, and learn comm theory by step 2.

2. Once enough colony ships are out to colonize all the nearest systems (from 8 to 12 depending, usually), I crank up the research to full. I nab the following techs:
- Universal Translator
- Diplomacy
- Industrial Theory
- Nano Metal Composition
- Medical Theory
- Basic Enviromental Control

3. As soon as those are done, I crank military just for a few turns, to get a few more colony ships out. They go to whatever systems I've uncovered during the 7 or 8 turns I was researching those techs.

4. I crank social to 100%, leaving the others at 0 (lost productivity.. what can one do *sniff*). I have my top 4 social producing planets crank out aphrodesiac, diplomatic translators, tri-blah steel, and frictionless clothing. I also crank up my spend rate until I am losing about 30bc a turn (deficit spending.. woot!). Typically, I can make all of them at 16 turns and under (the longest taking 16.. the other taking less, usually the lowest being around 12 turns). Once the last is done, I crank my spending back.. I usually have at least 500bc by this point (I shun early leases).

This has worked at least so far up to AI at bright. Usually I make all 4 trade goods before anyone else. Once in awhile, some noname race makes aphrodesiac before me.. *grrrrr*. But that is rare. But it seems close enough so that I don't study the tech to get fusion power plants. I set all my other planets govenor to make soil improvement, habitat control, banking center, manufacturing center. Typically, they are all done by the time the cheapest trade good is done. Those that were making trade goods can usually also get a couple of those social improvements before the longest trade good is done.

I usually have a pretty good revenue, and some excellent planets, not to mention 4 trade goods by the time I get done with phase 1 of my game. The next phase is all about what sort of victory I am going for.. and I am actually still trying different methods. The tech tree is so awesome, there is a bajillion ways you can do it.

It does seem that the minor races really love that aphrodesiac.. you can't screw around for many extra turns, or you will miss out on it.

fleabitfox

oh.. and just for the record, no.. I don't think the minor AI's cheat. I didn't know they got benefits the majors didn't get, but it makes sense, since they typically don't expand at the same rate (and you wouldn't want them to!).

But you can strategize so that you still get trade goods first, if you plan well.. which is the point of a strategy game. LOL

fleabitfox

I don't think the minors get a bonus, they just don't spend their startup cash on colony ships since they're not going anywhere.

~SDC~

Thanks for the strategy, Fleabit. I'm still relatively new to the game and am learning the ropes with it, mostly by taking other folks' strategies that they've posted here, and trying to adapt them to my own style of play.

I honestly don't know if the AI cheats or not, which was why, in my original post, I was saying, I thought the AI wasn't supposed to cheat in this game. That was one of the selling points for me: an AI that's actually intelligent, and doesn't need to use loopholes to win or at least put up a fight.

And Za H, I wasn't implying anything with my original post. I was simply asking a question, in response to which, you saw fit to jump down my throat. Like I said, I'm new to the game and am trying to learn how it works behind the scenes. My questions were just that: questions. They weren't accusations, they weren't subtly phrased insults to your intelligence or experience with the game. They were simply one guy who's new to the game and new to this community trying to get a hold of some information. Sheesh.

Original Post: "I know there have been other threads on it, but I have yet to see one that explains how they can get to these goods so quickly."

Every single thread accusing the AI to cheat on trade goods and wonders in the past has received the "they purchase it" answer, and I have yet to see one that did not explain so. If you have actually read any of these, please show me the one where misinformation has been distributed, and I will go correct it.

Simply saying "they purchase it" doesn't really answer the question. The logical followup question is "Where do they get the money and why do they have more money than I do?" That was why I was asking the questions. I wasn't saying that there'd been misinformation distributed. As I've said, I was simply looking for more info.

Oh, and sorry for the double post, but fleabit, your guide seems to be working quite well so far. Thanks for the info!

The answer is quite simple:

You set the major civilizations intelligence to simple but not that of the minors! It stays at whatever it was, possibly intelligent. Now take into account that they almost always start with relatively good planets and you'll see: There's no way for them not to be the ones who get the first some tradegoods!

Hmm...good point. I hadn't thought of that. I thought that the AI choices you made would be basically globalized by the game behind the scenes. IE: if I make every major AI a fool, the minors would be set to fool status, too. I may have to check that in the debug log some time.

I'm currently playing a game where I've managed to get most or all of the early-stage trade goods, and the minor races seem, well, minor so far. Fleabit's strategy seems to be working on Simple, though I suspect that you have to stick much closer to the letter of the law with his strategy when you ramp up the AI levels. In other words, you can't only SORT of follow it, you have to really stick with it. For this game, I've mostly followed it, but threw in a few techniques and tech choices (as well as social project choices) that were different. Higher AI levels might not be forgiving enough to let one get away with that.

...on the other hand, *new* minor races seem to be rather dangerous, because even when everybody's set at a very low difficulty, a new minor seems to start with ALL of your technology with the possible exception of the last one you researched, including ones restricted on the basis of alignment.

And, if an AI major race beats you to capturing that new, minimally defended world, it'll possibly (always?) get a tech. If not captured, it gets to run around with basically all your tech, possibly a nontrivial amount of BC, and a willingness to build wonders or trade goods. The moral seems to be "kill them NOW".

I've used this strategy at least up to 'intelligent', but not above. Since the AI gets an economic bonus above intelligent, they well well buy those social trade goods before I could make them thru this strat. But up to intelligent it works very well. You can try to deviate a little.. (for instance, research the tech to give you say, fusion power plants before you research the trade goods), but you may pay later on. LOL

I've found there is very little leeway.. if you don't want to lease aphrodisiac, but want some additional trade goods (to make cranking your social for 14 to 16 turns), this seems the best way to do it, altho I could be wrong. I love experimenting, and thru multiple tries, this seemed the best route to get it, to gain additional trade goods, without losing them to other races.

I'll probably stick to this strategy more closely now, since the (.4) patch made trade good more valuable to other races, and since they have fixed the multiple trade goods bug!

fleabitfox

Oh yea.. just one more thing. At intelligent at least, the other races WILL build constructors. If you have a resource in a sectore with your own systems, you might either want to crank military a bit longer.. or just outright lease a constructor, to at least nab one useful resource you need. That is one problem with this strat.. you won't nab all resources, at higher levels. But you can't do it all.. I feel the moral, ship, population and diplomatic bonuses outweight losing a 5% resource bonus.

fleabitfox

My key to surviving on intelligent is purchasing trade goods early and selling them to everybody. Techs and goods that I don't want the bad guys to get, I only sell to the minors.

It more than pays for the cost, and I get most of the techs that I didn't have time to research 'cause I was making military.