AI update request -please have folks use the ships I give them intelligently!

Hi, Generally I am pretty pleased with the AI in the game (I have DA and TA installed), but one problem that seems to keep popping up with the AI is that it seems to use ships that I give them rather poorly. I often go big on research and try to remain at peace because my empire is scattered everywhere (planets, resources, other starbases etc). The military ships I do build are way often more powerful than everyone elses such that each one could take on their entire fleets. One way to keep the galaxy reasonably balanced is to give powerful military ships to those races that are getting beaten upon. I don't often give my best ship models but ones that have enough defences that dying race's present enemies could hardly hope to damage.

So I give a really nice ship to the dying race and what do they do with it? They don't wipe out all those transports right next to it or destroy the entire oposing fleet in the way it could. Instead they fly it to one of their own planets (usually the capital) and park it there!! Meanwhile their other planets are getting taken over. They could seriously have wiped out the entire opposing attack force in a few turns but instead they fly it home, put it on display, let kids play in it, who knows!? So I give them another nice ship hoping that maybe with their capital safe, they will us the next one to wreak some havock. No! instead they fly it to the capital as well!!! One of these ships could almost defend their entire empire, but they park it where they put the other ship. They could have at least  put it on some other planet that is likely to be attacked.

This has happened in quite a number of different games. From what I remember, the ship I give almost never leaves the planet it is first sent to. I suspect that the issue is not something easily resolvable and has to do with how the AI decides how it will use ships generally. Perhaps the thinking that went into the AI was that a race's most powerful ship is probably not much more powerful than its next most powerful ship, or that there are more of these powerful ships in production, so its okay to this one on defense until the others are built. Then again, I have seen other races use their precursor ranger offensively. Is the AI instructed to treat those sorts of ships differently than the one's it produces itself. If so then maybe it could treat the kick ass ships that I give them similarly to the way they treat precursor rangers.

Anyhow, if this could be addressed it would be nice, but it certainly is not a priority.

9,292 views 15 replies
Reply #1 Top
From what I've experienced, the AI prioritzes defense of their planets over an offensive position. You could try giving multiple ships.

Also, I've done the same thing as you insofar as giving AIs ships that I park right next to what I want them to destroy - like resource starbases, transports, etc. If I give an AI two different types of ships then often they will only send one type back to their planet and use the other to attack strategic locations.
Reply #2 Top
You could try giving multiple ships.
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I have tried doing this, but I find the AI will either park the ship where it put the other one or (what is better but still not great) park it at another planet. Even if the AI were a little smarter in how they use the ships I give them for defense I would be somewhat contented. I have seen them fly the ships well away from where the real fighting is back to their capital where their opponent might not even be able to reach them. That in particular was a while ago so maybe it is better on newer versions. I do wonder if the AI uses the ships differently depending upon how their own military rating is in contrast to how their opponent's is. As I indicated, I have seen the more powerful aggressors send in the precursor cruiser to attack. The weaker races might go into defensive mode until their military rating is high enough to go on the offensive more. Then again, I have seen weak races waste their ships attacking stuff they can't possibly win against. The problem might be once again with regards to how the AI calculates an opponent's military might. Hundreds of weak ships may give a higher military rating than fewer mighty ships which could each destroy all of the weaker ships. So while I have given the AI a ship that can win the war for them, they still think that they are weaker than those attacking them and therefore go into defensive mode. I don't know. It's a pain all the same.

Maybe it is better to give a handful of reasonably good ships rather than one or two (almost) super ships.

Reply #3 Top
Ugh! I hate this too. It's so bad, it makes me think it could even be bug related.

I wish we had some sort of scripting or at least "configuration" system that let us mod and improve the AI, or create entirely new AIs!

Maybe one of the factors involve with this *error* in behavior is also the race's aggressiveness level?
Reply #4 Top
Well, besides those suggestions, do you have "Force AI to use max CPU" on, and do you have a good computer? :NOTSURE:  This is an option that improves their play level but does not affect the economy bonuses like the difficulty setting.

Also, I have encountered the same circumstances, but it would seem less often. At least in regards to getting a specific ship I gave them to attack a specific target that I placed the ship at before gifting it away.

A better AI is always the goal for us gamers so I would also like to see better Admirals running their fleets. :CONGRAT: 

Finally, and perhaps the most helpful to me was noticing the lifesupport level of the ships I gifted away. The ship will obviously haul butt home if it is out of range for the AI. I encountered this when I was trying to get the Drath to destroy some Drengin Resource SBs that I coveted. I gifted ships to the Drath, but I did not notice that they were out of their range limits and were FORCED to return home. I fixed this on a reload by upgrading a ship to a constructor, building a worthless SB next to the resource one, and then gifting them both the worthless SB and the ship. ;)  Next turn, Poof, a lovely Military Resource for me!
Reply #5 Top
Well, besides those suggestions, do you have "Force AI to use max CPU" on, and do you have a good computer?
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Actually, I have not tried that. It is worth looking into. I suspect that it might make the AI use the ships to defend a little better, but maybe not. I have seen the ships not move at all from the planet they are parked on to attack an enemy spore ship (heading for the neighboring planet) that it could easily reach in one turn with enough movement points to get back to the planet it was initially on. That certainly does not require planning more turns ahead. But maybe "Force AI" does more than plan further ahead.
Reply #6 Top
You're forgetting something....

Economics

From what I've seen, the AI puts priority on defense when it is being attacked. So like you have said if you give them a nice super shiny ship of high power they will send it right home.

If you give them two.. they will send one right home.. and may use the other to attack stuff. If you give them three, they will likely SELL one of them...

Economics plays a HUGE part of the game and depending on what the setting that you are playing you can give the AI a whole fleet of really nice ships.. bankrupt them.. and force them to sell everything they own....

I've actually used that tactic to destroy civ's I don't like but are not at war with. by giving them more ships than their economy can support they will generally do one of two things... Sell their own lower tech ships... or Sell the ships I give them. If they sell their own lower tech ships and PARK the ships I gave them it just makes it that much easier to come in and wipe the floor with them.


That said, the AI does have some oddities... If the ships you are giving them are set up with weapons and armor the same as what they are researching... the AI seems more likely to use it. However if it is stuff that they've never researched they are more likely to sell it or park it.


Also I've found that if I give them a ship that is sitting near their space but AT one of my planets.. they will drive the ship to their area and use it...

If I park a ship in their territory and give it to them... they may just ignore it for 50 turns and never move it.

If I park a ship next to a base or a planet the AI will almost NEVER attack what I want them to attack.. I suspect that this is a design feature and not a flaw.. If we could just park our ships at strategic locations and then give them away.. we could weaken all the AI's while not actually engaging in a war. The reason I suspect this is the only time it works otherwise is if I give my ship to a race I have an allicance with when they are at war with a race I am also at war with...

Taslios


Reply #7 Top
Hi!

Im also "anoyed" with the AI's use of ships i give them. I have MAX CPU on and a high-end computer.
AI's use of ships they receive frome me is somehow killing the fun in GCII. A few weeks back i was in the middle of a game (immense map, slow tech), and i was ruling the galaxy as humans. The Drengin however was in a fight for their lives with almost the enire galaxy when i felt some pitty for them... I then build up an entire new fleet of fighters who would get them back in the game with a bang, and gave them to the drengin. What did they do?? (I gave them like 30 medium fighters with pretty advanced def and attack -capabilities). The drengin started to "upgrade" almost every ship they could afford of the new fighters (wich is insane since they didnt have any of my weaponpower or defence..so techincally the downgraded them....alot). The few ships left witch they didnt downgrade just got "forgotten" and didnt move from where i gave them away. Then i thought HMMM...
I then build a bigger fleet for them, like 40-50 even better ships, and i also gave them 20000 credits to match the cost's for that fleet for awile... What u think they did?

Yep... they downgraded half the fleet again... and the rest just stood still like ghostships...

After that my "giving" nature went away and the drengins got asswiped...

I have also tried to give away ships in later games, but as we now know... its almost useless due to the AI's behaviour..
Reply #8 Top
LOL! That's funny. Maybe they felt humiliated by the thought of having to resort to using another race's technology, and their egos managed to convince them that THEIR "sling shot and tin foil" technology was, indeed, superior!
Reply #9 Top
I'll look into this! I'm always looking for an excuse to update the AI. :)
Reply #10 Top
Oh thank God! Yes yes yes!
hehe
Reply #11 Top
I totally agree with you.

Once, in trying to test an invasion-related bug, I started a masochistic game on a tiny map with one opponent, made contact ASAP, researched invasion ASAP, traded the tech to the other race, gave them transports filled with soldiers right next to my homeworld, and declared war.

The transports sat there without moving for over a year before the AI pulled them back to its homeworld. I did not have any ships in orbit.

Reply #12 Top


I'll look into this! I'm always looking for an excuse to update the AI.
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Excellent!


Once, in trying to test an invasion-related bug, I started a masochistic game on a tiny map with one opponent, made contact ASAP, researched invasion ASAP, traded the tech to the other race, gave them transports filled with soldiers right next to my homeworld, and declared war.

The transports sat there without moving for over a year before the AI pulled them back to its homeworld. I did not have any ships in orbit.
End of quote



Geeze, that's pretty sad. Maybe the AI is in fact so good that it thinks there is some trick involved in your giving those transports and therefore is afraid to use them. It quaranteens them for a bit and then brings them back home to carefully check them out. ;)


Actually, another explanation could be that your soldiering was higher (or at least suspected to be hihger) and since it was your homeworld it may have a high population to fight back with. If your opponent did not have much logistics then it could only send one ship of weak soldiers at a time against a whole lot on the homeworld. It could be a waste of soldiers (though they are a renewable resource). Instead more invasion research could be performed to improve the odds.

On the other hand, if you didn't want to waste your transport ships and soldiers why would you leave them next to your opponent's homeworld undefended?
Reply #13 Top
There were more troops on the transports than on my homeworld, and my soldiering was worse. My enemy was Drengin or Yor, and I had no bonuses.
Reply #14 Top
(I gave them like 30 medium fighters with pretty advanced def and attack -capabilities). The drengin started to "upgrade" almost every ship they could afford of the new fighters (wich is insane since they didnt have any of my weaponpower or defence..so techincally the downgraded them....alot). The few ships left witch they didnt downgrade just got "forgotten" and didnt move from where i gave them away. Then i thought HMMM...I then build a bigger fleet for them, like 40-50 even better ships, and i also gave them 20000 credits to match the cost's for that fleet for awile... What u think they did? Yep... they downgraded half the fleet again... and the rest just stood still like ghostships...After that my "giving" nature went away and the drengins got asswiped...I have also tried to give away ships in later games, but as we now know... its almost useless due to the AI's behaviour..
End of quote


Again I say Economics played into this... they didn't have a way of supporting the cost of keeping all those fancy new ships.. so they computer ran some algorithms and figured it would be more cost effective to downgrade them to a less expensive version.




Reply #15 Top
Too bad it didn't figure that it'd be more cost effective to send them all into massive battles, decimating all their enemies fleets on suicide missions. :p

Really, even if economics was the reason - if they were at war (and losing it) and had ANY sort of treasury to sustain a powerful fleet for any period of time, they'd be crazy doing anything but sending those ships out to do as much damage as possible (draining their bank account yes--in war, that's the norm). So maybe an AI enhancement would fix it if that's the issue.