Questions to the devs > why ... ?

from GalCiv2 Forums

Hello everybody,

let's first say that I am impress & very happy by your awesome game.
It's deep, good looking ;), addictive and the AI in good. Well, I have the full game (DL, DA & TA) and enjoy it!

But I have some annoyance with some interface & in game play devs choices, so I decide to post this thread.

I'm not fluent in English, so apologize my mistakes ;)

I'll summary it in a short list of "why ... ?" questions:

1 - why can't we queue research and ship construction? [A lot of micromanagement for nothing ...]
2 - why having circular menus instead of drop-down lists or thumbnails screen? [two examples: race logos choice & listing criterias in the planet menu/screen > it's VERY annoying to click 10 times, instead of two: drop-down list & choose... It's worse when you want to have a glance at something then go back to your prefered viewing: click, click, click, click, click, click, click, etc.]
3 - why can we ONLY upgrade planetary items to the last researched best items? [sometimes, you don't want to spend as lot as time or ressource to upgrade to the last level. And yes, it will adds to micromanagement I just complain in the first point ;)]
4 - why can't we launch any transport or colony vessels with zero pop?
5 - why, oh! why don't implement WAYPOINTS for ship travel? [a classic in games since a looong time! In fact, an waypoints/orders system like the one in Stars! wil be the greatest thing in the wolrd... I'll never found something that even approach this... what a shame...]

Well. This is not an exhautive list, but this is the most annoying points I've noticed.

Thanks for answers, and keep going like that: you're doing great job.

QXel

 

11,765 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi QXel,

Welcome to the GC community. I'm not a dev, but I can answer #3. If you look at the top of the improvements list, there should be a couple of boxes. The one that's checked by default is to only list the newest type of each improvement, but there's also a box that will show all improvements. If you check that one, then you can build older technology.

I thought there was a way to do waypoints, maybe by shift-clicking the destinations, but I might be confusing this with Sins. I'd really like to be able to set a patrol pattern, especially early in the game when I don't have good sensor tech.

CSR
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I can only give an answer to #3. In DA/TA you now have the ability to build old versions of planetary improvements. At the top of the list of improvements, you'll see 3 boxes "Newest" "Old" "All", "Newest" should be highlighted. Click "All" or "Old" and you can choose to build old buildings.

These however will probably try to auto-upgrade the next time you learn a new version of that building. That can be turned off with the planetary governor via the 'auto upgrade' box. That will have to be done to each planet you have however :/

*edit*
ColdSteelRain beat me to that...at least the 2nd paragraph has some additional content then for ya.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
#5
basic Waypoints are available.
blue question mark bottom left of main screen. just above the the info box. And you have some control from the colony management screen... third or fouth tab. I use it for my constructer swarm of death all the time. :)

But if you mean sending a ship to multiple waypoints then yes it would be nifty.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As for #4... you can launch a transport or a colony ship with just 1 passenger (i guess he has to fly the ship). This is as close to zero as you can get and I can't imagine why it would be a problem top lose just one peron from a planet.

I'm not sure if you knew that or not since the ship is ready to launch with it's maximum capacity when it is constructed. You can chose to have any number on the ship between 1 and the maximum.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
1 troop = 1 million people from a planet however. No other ships require 1 million people to fly. /shrug As you said, 1 (million) isn't much to loose in the grand scheme of things.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thanks to all.

ColdSteelRain, Loupdinour: I have to precise that for #3, I wrote "upgrade to" not "build". Yes, you can build (i.e. on any empty planet square) anything you have already discovered, but IIRC (If I Remember Correctly), you CANNOT UPGRADE at a lower level than your last discovered.
It only apply of course after at least 3 levels researched.

CaptainYar: for transport, yes you can launch with only one, but I really think that 0 will be less strange ;)

Bakka: for waypoint, you are speaking I think about the waypoints defined to mark some position in space, but I meant waypoint along the ship's way, as in any STR since Total Annihilation, with a shift-click, as ColdSteelRain say (if you're right, ColdSteelRain, it seems that it is not documented). So you can design patrol way, or having more control in your scouting.
By the way, those implemented in the game are usefull nonetheless.

Again, thanks you all.

A question: nobody's really annoyed by the lack of drop-down lists???

QXel
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
#1

While I haven't played this expansion, in the previous two, you could select a technology you don't have the ability to research yet, and the game will automatically research all technologies leading up to it. I'd be surprised if this had been removed. While it isn't quite what you are looking for, it's something vaguely similar.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A question: nobody's really annoyed by the lack of drop-down lists???
End of quote


I was only fielding answers that I could answer. ~looks at post title~ I'm not a dev so I didn't wish to comment on that lol.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is as close to zero as you can get and I can't imagine why it would be a problem top lose just one peron from a planet.
End of quote


I mean, man, this IS hilarious... i just dropped the coffee cup all over the keyboard and i'm laughing outloud - can't you hear me from where you are, right now?
;) ;)
:)
One pilot per ship - *THE* limit.
Fly and go conquer me some alien worlds!

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is as close to zero as you can get and I can't imagine why it would be a problem top lose just one peron from a planet.
End of quote


The REAL problem is not so much being forced to put 1 mil people on the ship, but that it won't launch without! It is annoying micromanagement to clear the colonyship of colonists with the arrows and then having to put one back in before clicking launch. This would be easely "fixed" by making the slider not go down to zero, but to 1. Would save a lot of clicks and a fair bit of annoyance, at least on my side.

That said, if it doesn't get tweaked, I'll live. It's still fun enough to play. ;)

I have no answer to any of the other questions (except #3, but that's been answered clear enough). Frankly, the other questions haven't bothered me as such...
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
To Zyxpsilon:
Yes, it is what I'm saying, 1 is .. well ... ridiculous ;)
As if you can program 1, why don't program 0?

;)
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah, colony ships are weird. Being able to fly them empty would be a great enhancement to the game.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Yeah, colony ships are weird. Being able to fly them empty would be a great enhancement to the game.
End of quote


Really? The primary role of the colony ship is to colonize, so the only advantage of flying them out empty is to explore. But with a filled colony ship you can explore and colonize a planet you find right than and there. Done this quite a lot, and it pays off.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Well if you just must have a colony ship with no people, which is beyond me btw, then build a constructor, freighter, miner, or whatever and then upgrade to a colony ship design. There will be 0 people on your new colony.

I must ask though, the colony ship's sole purpose is to establish a colony. A colony takes people. Why have a colony ship with 0 people? If you want to explore, then create a ship that explores. This is like having a freighter with no goods on it. Or a constructor with no tools or equipment.

The reason you can slide the slider down to 1million is that some people can only spare 1million people. The reason that you can't slide it to 0 is because then there would be no people to colonize the planet.

You guys don't see the problem with having a colony with 0 people?

Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You guys don't see the problem with having a colony with 0 people?
End of quote


It turns out not to be that big of a problem. The planet "population" is the number of citizens, not total number of people. Even starting at zero (using the upgrade technique or a spore ship) the planet will still develop like any other planet.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
You guys don't see the problem with having a colony with 0 people?It turns out not to be that big of a problem. The planet "population" is the number of citizens, not total number of people. Even starting at zero (using the upgrade technique or a spore ship) the planet will still develop like any other planet.
End of quote


I know the mechanics actually, I wasnt being clear, sorry. ;p  Yes, a colony will grow (albeit at a much reduced rate) with a colony ship that had 0 people. Really, I think this is the real issue, it seems strange that a colony would grow with 0 people, even if it is really just converting the native populous or whatever to becoming citizens, as is explained in certain points of the game lore.

When I said

You guys don't see the problem with having a colony with 0 people?

I was referring to the "fantasy immersion" in the game. If we (you and/or I) were running a galactic Empire and sent a colony ship off with no people, :SURPRISED:  our government would look at us strangely :LOL:  How does a colony with 0 populaiton "convert" others to join the cause so to speak?  ;p 
_______________________________________________________________________
It turns out not to be that big of a problem. The planet "population" is the number of citizens, not total number of people. Even starting at zero (using the upgrade technique or a spore ship) the planet will still develop like any other planet.
_______________________________________________________________________


Yes, but we don't believe that we are sending people to other colonies that aren't citizens right? When we send out a population, our citizens are subtracted from the planet. There is not a slider that says "How many people NOT under our control on this Planet would you like to send off to the next planet?"

By upgrading a ship to a colony ship (I assume this is how you know that a colony with 0 will still grow) we are exploiting just a bit. :D  But I am guilty of this too, as I have sent out a constructor only to find a tasty PQ12 chillin nearby which required immediate colonization :LOL: 
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
The biggest problem is, frankly, that it even lets you try to do it. It is rather silly that it allows you to try to do it even though it will never be allowed!

The primary role of the colony ship is to colonize, so the only advantage of flying them out empty is to explore.
End of quote


Or to go to a planet with extra population to get more settlers after dropping off settlers on a new planet.

In any case, it's a minor complaint, but it is a tad annoying nonetheless.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Good points.

The biggest problem is, frankly, that it even lets you try to do it. It is rather silly that it allows you to try to do it even though it will never be allowed!

The slider does go to 0 currently and that is actually very strange. :NOTSURE:


The primary role of the colony ship is to colonize, so the only advantage of flying them out empty is to explore.Or to go to a planet with extra population to get more settlers after dropping off settlers on a new planet.


Yes, shuttling citizens to and fro (and/or fro and to) would be a use that I didn't see when first responding on this thread. If this is the case, then having 0 citizens makes perfect sense. Though, being able to colonize with 0 citizens should be disallowed in my opinion.
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top

Or to go to a planet with extra population to get more settlers after dropping off settlers on a new planet.
End of quote


Oh yeah forgot about that. In that sense it would be useful. But like its stated above it could be used to colonize planets with zero population.

What you could do, to prevent people colonizing planets with zero population, is allow the players to set the bar for population to zero on Transports ONLY. You can't colonize with a transport I think, and you can't conquer a planet with zero troops.
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Or to go to a planet with extra population to get more settlers after dropping off settlers on a new planet.Oh yeah forgot about that. In that sense it would be useful. But like its stated above it could be used to colonize planets with zero population.What you could do, to prevent people colonizing planets with zero population, is allow the players to set the bar for population to zero on Transports ONLY. You can't colonize with a transport I think, and you can't conquer a planet with zero troops.
End of quote


Good idea. And fix the slider so it does not even hit 0 for the colony ships so as to aviod the confusion.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You cannot colonize with a transport, but you CAN cpmquer a planet with zero troops. It's called a spore ship.

These sound like decent ideas, but something to consider: would this affect ships upgraded to colony ships from something else? Perhaps just putting in a check for colonists when landing, if the ship is at zero you get a pop up much like you get now if you target a planet with anything but a colony ship?
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What you could do, to prevent people colonizing planets with zero population
End of quote

I don't think developers need to do something special aside from disabling colonization capability for the ships with no people.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Colonizing or moving people around is one task... i'd rather have SD-Coders design me a re_usable transport of troopers;

1500 hundreds dropped here, 1000 remain from the battle that just occured... next target, please!

It never occured to me that a preciously built and paid for conquering ship was to suddenly be dismantled or simply vanish in the twilight zone of invisibility every time around. Twarted, i understand - it is a loss after all. But a planet conquered and now mine? You bunch of soldiers come right back here -- we, have a nearby goal to achieve.
:)
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
You cannot colonize with a transport, but you CAN cpmquer a planet with zero troops. It's called a spore ship.
End of quote


True, but I meant that if you loaded up a transport with no troops, you couldn't conquer the planet with it unless you upgraded it to a Spore Ship.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You cannot colonize with a transport, but you CAN cpmquer a planet with zero troops. It's called a spore ship.True, but I meant that if you loaded up a transport with no troops, you couldn't conquer the planet with it unless you upgraded it to a Spore Ship.
End of quote


Don't forget Information Warfare, with this assault tactic, I often enough end up with more troops than I started out with after invason.

A spore ship actually igves you 1M "fre" citizens upon invasion.

An upgraded miner/contrstuctor etc. to a colony ship will also have 1 colonists (-> 1M citizens upon colonisation).

I really don't mind being forced the 1M pop shift, it's the fact that it doesn't automatically restrict you to 1 that is the real annoyance.