Update next week

Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

The problem when you "raise the bar" on standards is that the new level becomes "the norm". Stardock have a deservedly very high reputation for updates etc, and always give amazing value for money in the products. With most games houses you'd be lucky to get an update at all, and then reluctantly after months of ranting by the whole fanbase.

I have no doubts that this one was slower than they would have liked, however they were very open about what was happening and thats fair enough when you consider the voluntary hours they put in getting it to us in the first place, and thats also a near miracle compared to other Games Houses.

As for the washing machine - no thanks, I prefer Stardocks free updates, they are almost invariably quick. This was unusual and slow by their standards (5 weeks is damn near a miracle for most games houses - not just "slow"), and they said why, cant get fairer than that. To fix my washing machine I usually end up paying around £60 just to get the guy to turn up, let alone fix the damn thing!

As invariably I can still use my game, usually get an update within 10 days or so, and dont pay £60 for appearance money, I know what one I prefer.

It was annoying at times for sure, I had to ditch a couple of games, but it didnt always appear, and its hardly the end of Life on Planet Earth as we know it ..... Its blether over nothing....

Regards
Zy

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I guess a few of the older gamers around would remember the 'good ole day's of purchasing a game on floppy's ... and that was all you got; Bugs and all. Nope, no such thing as a patch. You had to make do with the game as is or go outside and play ball instead.

Now I'm not saying that it wasn't frustrating as all hell, but I don't think that 7 weeks is a terribly long time-span to wait for a patch (as long as it address the major issues when released), for a game that most of us will more than likely play for years to come.

Failing that, go buy a console. Ahhh, the old Atari 2600...

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Zydor

Join Date 03/2006

+38

You had to make do with the game as is or go outside and play ball instead.

More than one of my games back then supplied on a 640Kb floppy disk ended up as a coffee mat, or more usually a wonderful "poor man's Frizbee"

Imagine todays 300mb+ monster games - 470 "Frizbee Floppys" - geez the local Park would have been knee deep in the damn things

Back then my hard disk was a humungous 10mb - cant fit most game's pdf manual on that these days!

(A good thing by the way [CDs make much better Frizbees and Coffee Mats], there was only so many times I could take alien ships bobbing around the bottom of the screen or that damned silly PacMan munching his way up some silly ladder !)

Regards
Zy

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CobraA1

Join Date 09/2006

+26

You are only 7 weeks to late and totally ruined the name of Stardock.

. . . and he'll be supporting it for a long time to come, I'm sure. Homeworld 2, Caesar IV, Command and Conquer 3, etc all have stopped releasing any new patches. Big name publishers rarely support their games beyond a single patch anymore. IMHO, this is where Stardock really shines, and still shines.

And I am pretty sure, with all negative reactions + the emptyness on the forums from late

Only on politics and philosophy am I really seeing much negativity. On Stardock and their games, however, I think everybody agrees that they're great games and are very positive about it

. Well, until this thread got started, it seems

.

In any case, I haven't bought TA or played much of any GalCiv 2 yet (crunch time at college), so I'm not up to date on it, but it does sound like the issue may be blown a bit out of proportion.

Balancing a game is very difficult, especially since people have different expectations for the game. Some like it easy, some like it difficult. Some like it fast, some like it slow. Some like small maps, some like large ones. It's simply impossible to make everybody happy all of the time. In addition, Stardock is indeed a small company and simply does not have the resources to do many things at once.

I'm sorry, but this is far, far beyond what any other company does for its games. Most of the big publishers like EA Games throw out a game, and if you're lucky a patch, and completely forget about it. Stardock is far, far better in this regard than the big publishers. In fact, they were very open about what was going on and why they were doing it. Try getting a big name publisher to be that open!

I'm sorry, but they just got out of a big crunch time to hear this crap?? I'm disappointed in this community. Very disappointed. If anything, they're stressed out and need a break, not more whining from us.

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DivineWrath

Join Date 05/2006

+108

I might be the odd person to think this, but I'm kind of glad I had a month or so without a patch (gave me time to write my TA 101 guide without having to worry about patch changes). I guess I have to get my but in gear to finish the rewrite before tuesday then.

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Imagine todays 300mb+ monster games - 470 "Frizbee Floppys"

That most assuredly would have burned out the Duodisk on my Apple IIe. Plus, I probably would have had to stay up for a week straight just to get it loaded.

Personally, I don't give a crap about Political Machine. It's not my kind of game. However, I understand that business is business, and this one is as cutthroat as any. So, I don't mind taking a back seat to SD's new product if it means the company will be around for years to come making excellent 4X games. As someone said earlier, these people are big boys and girls, and they do not have to lay down for unappreciative individuals who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

When was the last time any of you spent a holiday weekend working? Or when was the last time you worked from your bed while you were sick with the flu? Let's keep things in perspective. The fact that SD gives us more than one patch after releasing the game is practically groundbreaking in and of itself. Now some of us are so spoiled, they get mad if they have to wait a few extra weeks for an update. Well boo hoo. Cry me a river. Lighten up and get over it. And for goodness sake, the word is TOO (and I think that one poster meant antagonist, not protagonist).

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Kryo, Boogie, Brad - you guys rock.

Please don't listen to the one... I have no other word but Asshat... that is berating you for not doing it immediately. He must be a teenager that wants everything now, instead of everything correctly.

I, as someone who's grabbed all the GalCiv2 games, and loved them to death, want to say on behalf of your loyal fans that you guys are still the best game creation house there is. I understand you got swamped by PM2008 (which I've been thinking about getting) and couldn't chuck us a patch. And I respect that you would even give us a patch this fast, unlike most places that would pretend there was no problem for three months, and then release a patch that broke more things than it fixed.

Please don't take that jerk's words to heart when you think about your playerbase. You guys do, as I said, rock. |..| Rock on, SD... eagerly awaiting your patch here.

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Geez some people can be thick (looking at Fluxx's way, you should be ashamed mate splurting uneducated lies like that like some sort of angry teen).

Stardock has been incredibly busy as of late, mostly for the benefit for us gamers. Whether its further improving their brilliant new Impulse client, putting the finishing touches on new titles that they need to get done (Political Machine), communicating with their buddies at Ironclad and Gas Powered Games as well as maintaining their line of desktop enhancement software.

Things you should know are:

1. Brad budgets for the provision of updates for Stardock's titles after the release of a game.

2. Stardock is not some heartless mega-corporation who couldn't care about what gamers think of the titles they develop / publish. The developers at Stardock do care about their game, and really want to improve the game to meet up to everyone's wants and needs (including their own) as humanly possible.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Stardock is just currently been busy getting the important things out of the way first so that they can produce a substantial series update for Twilight later (which is guranteed to happen as it has been budgeted for by Brad). So chill out and relax.

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I still don't understand the mentality of people that that say they've lost all confidence and will never play the game again etc and then still waste their time posting on that games forums. It's always puzzled me.

Anyway, I'm still playing and still enjoying it. So hats off to stardock, they've not hidden their timeline from us and kept us informed. I'm looking forward to the 2.0 release, which I think is more than anyone could ask for.

So, to sum it up: Hooray for stardock, we appreciate it (well I certainly do).

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The last time I saw this amount of negativity on a forum, it was World of Warcraft.. but then I don't browse forums that much

.

Are the bugs game-breaking? Nah. Did Stardock have a bit of 'crunch time' that slowed things down a bit? Sure. Do I blame them? Nah. Is seven weeks too long to wait for a patch to address a tech-cost scaling issue? Not terribly, compared to -some- game companies. Am I waiting on baited breath for the patch? Sure, why not.

So some people're a little too enthusiastic. Typing before they think, they claim world-destroying neglience when what they mean is 'The game bugs me a bit now, and it used to be perfect; please hurry up, I want my perfect game back!'. I've never been fond of this kind of screaming overexaggeration, but that's what you get when you feed a whole generation talk shows where sex and anger has replaced reasoned discourse.

Personally, I'm a bit more bugged by the trade-route bug - it seems more dibilitating then having to wait a bit longer for disruptors. Any word on if that'll get some tuning soon?

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Wow, two employees to tell an idiot how wrong he is. Get back to work you lot!

And yes the research bug/feature can be annoying. Then again, it's just another part of a game that constantly makes you re-evaluate your strategy. I didn't actually expect a patch lol

I've now purchased four games from SD (Gal Civ 2 + 2 expansions and Sins) and throughout I've been impressed with the level of service and support. Quite often I read other forums where things like customer service or copy protection is mentioned and SD gets a mention about how they are the way to go.

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Sir_On_The_Edge

Join Date 07/2006

+7

Was about to post what kyro said without the statistics. Wow, 9 people?
I'll then condense my statement so I don't have to repeat what you said so much.

Anyway, I'm always angry at companies, like EA, that don't support there products as they have plenty of people to do it (often over 40), if you honestly want stardock to completely stop work on the next game then I'd expect you to pay money for that work. The next game will allow the company to survive, give you hours of entertainment, and give them funding to support past games as well.

Can you imagine what a company like stardock could achieve if the RTS/TBS market was bigger and they could grow a bigger team?

Is this a rant?.... I don't care if it is.

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ScottTykoski

Join Date 03/2001

+132

Yeah, I'm not sure where 7 weeks came from. We put an update out 2-3 days after the official release of the game, so really it's been around 5 weeks since the game's been updated.

But thats not the point (and I'll try sound less pissed off this time)

The problem is, while Brad has set aside cash and time to fund these updates, a lot of the good stuff comes from the hard work of the team. There are technicially only 8 hours in a work day, but many people will stay over just to put in an extra 'wouldn't it be cool' feature, or weed out a few piddily bugs. I think it's this brand of 110% that people like to see, and I know the team is happy to put in the hard work when people appreciate it as such.

Case in point: we just got off Political Machine 2008. I think it turned out fantastic...we're all very proud of it. Everyone on the team put in AT LEAST 110%. Went gold on the 6th (http://pc.ign.com/articles/879/879874p1.html).

Some of us decide that it's been too long since GC2 got some love and plan some fixes for a build this week, working straight into the weekend from the crunch. Amazingly hard working crew. And what do we get on the forum? Fluxx saying this isn't enough and comparing the game to a 'broken washingmachine'

This is why you'll see tempers rise from time to time....everyones very passonate about what we do. We love it. And PLEASE, give us as much constructive feedback as you can. We appreciate it. But when you just come on to aimlessly rant and flame us for not working hard enough? Thats something we can do without.

Anyways, speaking of ranting, I guess I shout zip it up and get back to the new Shipyard

+2

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Shipyard? ooooo

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Hey Fluxx, have you noticed that your rant has gained you zero karma points? That should tell you something.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Hopefully I didn't sound too critical. I did put some criticism on you guys, but it was an unavoidable situation for you. You guys did handle the situation the best way you could though.

My main criticism was not that it was a long time, but that you didn't offer a backpatch to the last known good version (which I still feel was a mistake on your part- as long as it wasn't something that took a lot of work, which I don't think it would be)

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ScottTykoski

Join Date 03/2001

+132

Arstal: One feature that the games team was asking for in Impulse is to allow users to actually download specific iterations of a title. As a user, you run into a change that kills the experience for you, all you have to do is select which version to regress to and *poof* the download tool does it for you.

I know of many instances where this would make players very happy

From what I understand about the nature of this research bug, it would have taken more time to deprecate our current codebase and spit out a hotfix than to actually fix the problem correctly

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Brad, et al, keep up the great work. Stardock is still the pack leader when it comes to product and performance. So, if you factor one or two Fluxxy type rants into the budget you'll still feel the love radiating from the remainder of your fan base.

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Shipyard? What?

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ScottTykoski

Join Date 03/2001

+132

Shipyard? What?

The new Shipyard 'planet improvement' graphic that I've been promising players for one of the first Twilight updates. Should be easier on the eyes than the old 64x64 one

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2232

The research cost calculation is not a bug.

Late in development, there were a number of posts complaining that researching late stage techs was too cheap and that it should be more epic.

Therefore, we added that if the # of techs researched > N then cost = cost X Z where Z is a factor that slowly increases. It is working as designed, it's just that you guys (and us) don't like it. So we're changing it back to the way it was.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2232

The problem is, while Brad has set aside cash and time to fund these updates, a lot of the good stuff comes from the hard work of the team.

There are technicially only 8 hours in a work day, but many people will stay over just to put in an extra 'wouldn't it be cool' feature, or weed out a few piddily bugs. I think it's this brand of 110% that people like to see, and I know the team is happy to put in the hard work when people appreciate it as such.Case in point: we just got off Political Machine 2008. I think it turned out fantastic...we're all very proud of it.

Everyone on the team put in AT LEAST 110%. Went gold on the 6th (http://pc.ign.com/articles/879/879874p1.html). Some of us decide that it's been too long since GC2 got some love and plan some fixes for a build this week, working straight into the weekend from the crunch.

Amazingly hard working crew. And what do we get on the forum? Fluxx saying this isn't enough and comparing the game to a 'broken washingmachine' This is why you'll see tempers rise from time to time....everyones very passonate about what we do.

We love it. And PLEASE, give us as much constructive feedback as you can. We appreciate it. But when you just come on to aimlessly rant and flame us for not working hard enough? Thats something we can do without.

Well said Scott.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2232

I just dont get it.Lets say you would buy a washing machine with a manufacturing problem, and you go back to the shop the next day to use your garanty.

When you come there you get the message, yeah sorry we know there is a problem, but we are busy creating a new washing machine. This will take about 7 weeks, but after that we will surely fix yours.What would you say?

"Oh ok guys, no problem. As long as you are working hard and you will make a nice washing machine in the meantime".

I would say you should ask for your money back and go away.

People need to remember it's a two-way street. We can choose not to sell products to people who are going to treat us as a retail washing machine store. Just say the word and you can have a refund.

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That is one sweet looking Shipyard

.

I had thought techs did increase, though very slightly, in DA. I had run up to one week to go on Tech Victory and then chose to research some other things, upon returning to the Tech. Vic. it would increase by a week for each additional tech I researched.

I was also wondering if a couple of the other global bugs were going to be addressed in this update? The Altarian/Drath improvement that can allow you to take any planet to class 72 and the ability to buy multiple improvements through the quick build in the colony manager could be quite a destabilizing exploit if used for Metaverse games.

Thanks for all the hard work. TA shows the industry how great and how much gameplay depth/alteration can be achieved through an expansion pack.

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The research cost calculation is not a bug.

Late in development, there were a number of posts complaining that researching late stage techs was too cheap and that it should be more epic.

Therefore, we added that if the # of techs researched > N then cost = cost X Z where Z is a factor that slowly increases. It is working as designed, it's just that you guys (and us) don't like it. So we're changing it back to the way it was.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just increase the absolute RP cost of late stage techs rather than using a sliding scale that applies to all? Or perhaps have certain techs (i.e. planetary invasion) exempt? Or, keep the sliding scale idea, but have it affect some techs more than others? In other words: if # tech researched > N then cost = cost X Z X W where W is a tech specific scaling factor. For something like planetary invasion tech, W could be 0.1 while Disruptors III, W could be 5. That way inflation hits planetary invasion only one-tenth while disruptors gets walloped.

Personally, it wasn't the tech inflation itself that made it a game-breaker for me, but rather the effect on the AI. I was able to adjust my strategy to the tech inflation, but the AI was not able to keep up, which made it too easy to just waltz right over the AI.

You've been (too) good to us. Keep the chin up and know that nearly all of us love ya!

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Update next week

Minor but important