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Gas Prices: $12-$15/gallon

Gas Prices: $12-$15/gallon

AHHH!!! They just said on the news that some anylists are predicting gas will soon be $12-$15 a gallon! It gave me an anxiety attack! Looks like my generation will be marked by abject poverty *cry*!!!
367,427 views 144 replies
Reply #51 Top
Hmm. According to wikipedia, a US liquid gallon is 3.785 412 L (litres)
So, with petrol prices here in the uk for example, you times the per litre price (About UK£1.45 in some places) by 3.785 412
That works out as a price of UK£5.4888474, which at this time is US$10.863519 according to XE.com
Hmm. That's now.
I can see the adverts for american tourists in a few years:
"Come to the united kingdom, were we don't have petrol prices. We just put a Vacuum cleaner in your wallet!" :LOL: 
Reply #52 Top
hio. Its about $3.77/gallon USD (changing by the minute) where I'm at and I'm getting about 28 miles/gallon.
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ima gettin 33 mpg avg right now
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I wish the minivan getting about 13 miles/gallon in city

I don`t ever go on the hyway any more LOL bout it in the low 20`s there

33 Kool but it be nice if that was 43 or 53 :)

Nasty


Reply #53 Top
I'm so glad someone brought up price elasticity. I think that has ALOT to do with the high price of gas, and the reason it will never go below $3 (assuming we don't have severe de-inflation of the dollar, heh).
I remember for the longest time when we were just breaching $2/gal. financial analysts were commenting that as the price was rocketing up, demand was still increasing.
The oil companies realized they were shooting themselves in the foot by selling so low just as OPEC happened to realize they were doing the same to themselves.
Is it so infeasible to think that the top oil companies got together with OPEC and laid out a plan to test the price elasticity of their products to ensure they were making maximum profit (i.e. at the true market equilibrium point)?
Reply #54 Top
You Americans can use Europe as an example. The price per gallon is around 10$ here, and there are already serious efforts made to find alternative energy sources. I guess the price will rise until the majority uses alternative fuel of any kind. from there the price will drop with rising efficiency or at least remains on the same level ,if the Energy-hunger of the world keeps growing.
America is spoiled(cant think of a better word) with low energy prices for the last decades. There is also a widespread infrastructure to "update". But in the end America will go a similar way as Europe.
And maybe for all these who have to drive 100+ miles to work, maybe you should move closer to your workplace? I am an intern at a Automobile-manufacturer only 130km away from home for about half a year and i rent a small apartment near the factory so i can go there by bike. Even with the rent it is cheaper, healthier and much less time consuming than commuting.
Reply #55 Top
Yes, it is infeasible. The pricing power of the top oil companies is dick. They don't produce hardly any of the oil in the world, we've blocked exploration and drilling for a couple decades now. It's sold on an open market, like an auction. There is no grand conspiracy involving the big oil companies because they don't control enough supply to do anything.

Grottenolm85, you Europeans have been artificially driving up the costs and still haven't invented an alternative fuel. Necessity drives invention, not cost. All the legislation has done is marginally improve fuel economy and carry the costs over to everything else, slowing economic growth.
Reply #56 Top
Oil settled at $138.54, a gain of $10.75 for the regular session; that was the biggest one-day advance for oil in the history of the Nymex
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mmm can any one say $150.00 USD by july 1 2008???

sure seem unstable to me,... we may look back and say $12-$15/gallon as cheap!!! the question is how fast well this be said !!!!

Nasty
Reply #57 Top
Sometimes I hate this country.

You want to know what the difference between the US and Europe is? Europeans know how to conserve fuel. They don't take their cars and drive around to stuff that's in walking distance (and yes, we have cities in the US too where there are plenty of things in walking distance from a residence so don't give me that more spread out excuse). And they don't make 10 car trips a day simply because it's not convenient to consolidate your errands into one longer trip.

As far as I'm concerned, if you meet one or more of the following criteria, you have no business complaining about gas prices :

1.You drive a gasoline powered vehicle. Next time, get a diesel engine which is 33% more efficient, lasts longer, can run on things other than fossil fuels and is more environmentally friendly. (And no, I'm not interested in hybrids. They are merely yuppie gimmicks like Apple computers. If you are on a road trip and your hybrid breaks down, good luck finding someone that can fix it also).

Modern diesels are just as good if not better than gaoslines. Low sulfur fuels reduce or eliminate the odor normally associated with diesel engines. Particulate filters eliminate the black soot normally associated with diesel engines. Variable-geometry turbochargers give diesels comparable performance to gasoline engines. And a properly maintained modern diesel engine can last 250,000 to 500,000 miles before needing major maintenance.

2.You drive an SUV. I have no sympathy for the plight of SUV drivers. Boo hoo. You can't afford gas for your 5 mpg gas guzzler. Next time, get a more efficient vehicle. I see this all the time on the news where people claim that they are being backrupted by gas prices and they interview them by their vehicle, a gas guzzling SUV.

3.You have a lead foot or a feather foot. Learn how to drive before complaining about gas prices. Specifically, learn about your engines power band and why it's best to keep it in that range when accelerating.

The powerband is the RPM range at which your engine operates most efficiently. Operating in the powerband means less wasted energy which means less wasted fuel. Going above or below this powerband means you loose efficiency and that means a lower MPG. The powerband for a gasoline engine is normally within the range of 2500-3500 RPM. Diesels are half that (one of the reasons they get better MPG).
Reply #58 Top
The US has become pathetic: too much corruption X-(
Reply #59 Top
Today's gas prices are result of the life style everyone lived by and still does.
We grew dependant on a resource that was apart of our every day lives without thinking about the future.

No one entity, goverment, bussines, or otherwise, is to blame for where we are now. Everyone can influence, but not control the prices. The main cause of pricing is indeed supply and demand. People will say that there is enough oil to last 200+ yrs and "Big Oil" is crippling people and making massive profit doing it. Well that may be true that there is still a large ammount of oil left to be tapped and "Big Oil" is indeed making a very large ammount of money. Thats only because oil companies are in the right bussines right now to be making large ammounts of money. Why? Oil right now is in such high demand EVERYWHERE. Its in more of a demand now than at any other point in history. Things like windfall profit tax laws or other "Robin Hood" laws will not change the fact they are making money off a commodity in such high demand. They are making billions, but they are making billions selling alot of something thats in high demand and is getting more expensive everyday.

Countries can influance prices on a global market through massive goverment subsides paid out to help aid thier countries development which increases demand in thier markets.
Think about it, After World War Two how many countries were developed/developing? U.S., Britan, USSR are the only countries I can think of that were still intact after the war ended. And since the war was basicly fought in someone else's back yard the U.S. came out ahead of everybody. We stayed ahead of everyone for a very, very long time. As a result we gave ourselves a booming economy. Since we didn't have to rebuild an infrastructure we could build UP. Our parents/grandparents talk about times when gas was very cheap, but they don't talk about is how many people actualy owned cars. Back in the 1950's-60s only about 7 out of every 10 AMERICANS owned cars. You know, the same americans that were part of the richest most powerfull country on the planet at the time. Yet owning cars was still a LUXURY back then, so what do you think car sales were like anywhere else?

China, Japan, India, well basicly all of Asia, Africa and South America at large didn't have (and some still don't have) a middle class. You had the rich, and then the dirt poor. These places as markets of consumers didn't exist. These countries made money over time by selling cheap labor to foreign manufacturers. As a result the countries that had people that had jobs in a stable economy could afford things cheaply. So yeah things were cheaper when you didn't have to share the resource. Well now said countries are getting a middle class and thanks to said subsidized income, are now growing at a happy bubbly rate. Just look at the posts in the China thread. So many people are getting pissy at China's goverment yet the life for the average chineese citizen seems to be getting better every day. In a country of 1 Billion having 1 million poor only meens 1/1000th of your population is living under the poor braket. China is now what? 1.3 billion now? So everything you hear about "all those poor disavantaged people" is only a small fraction of the population at large. Everyone else is a consumer. Its not just China either much of Aisa is growing.
In the 1980s Japan had an explosion of economic development. A MASSIVE explosion on a scale of people going out and buying works of art at 10x 20x 30x apraised value from auction houses just for the hell of it. Baiscly a lot of people got rich very quickly. Cars, homes, everything you could think of was getting cranked out at massive volumes for a hungry country with massive economic growth. Say wasn't it at about this same time America had a gas shortage? Prices going up at an abnormaly higher rate than the decades before? Huh it all seemed to turn out allright when the Japanesse ecomomy bubble suddenly popped and alot of people got very poor very quickly and thus not everyone could afford to drive cars anymore. O well those two events happening at the same time couldn't possibly meen they were connected? Right? O well gas prices stabalized for the next 11 years so I guess nobody in the U.S. could have cared about forgein affairs....o wait.
Being such a powerfull country with a powerfull economy back then we felt obligated to meddle every affair everywhere. China is under so much criticism for praticing curency exchange rate manipulation and forceably controling markets and such. Well they probably learned it from the U.S. and Britan. Only we didn't lie about doing it, we just did it because we could and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Anyone hear about project Ajax? It was this great military plan back in the early 1950s targeted at Iran. The Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was a arrangement that left the Anglo half (Britan) with a gold mine and the Iranian half with the shaft. Well the Iran parliment (Iran had a parliment?) elected thier new prime minister the first thing he did was nationalize the AIOC. Britan tried to regain control of the company and the Iran P.M. basicly gave them the finger. Not to be denided, Britan went to the U.S. for help and a joint effort was launched that funneled troops, weapons and anti-goverment propaganda into Iran.
Well the Iran parliment was overthrown and a royal family took its place even tho it was nothing but a puppet that licked western boot and opressed its own people with lots and lots of human rights violations. This of course went on untill about 1979 when a radical antiwestern Islamic military goverment took control. Gee why would oil exporting countries like Iran want to hate the U.S. when all we did was overthrow the only democratically elected goverment that Iran ever had and installed a goverment that only served our intrest? Yet amazingly OPEC countries have little motivation to cut us off at the tap. They did it once and it actualy back-fired on them cause the U.S. still had leverage in the market when they did it. The U.S. does not have that leverage now but cutting the tap off would piss off alot more people who are alot closer to them. We also have a small advantage of other oil exporting countries comming about that are not tied to OPEC. Increasing oil production to the levels demanded from the countries producing is impossible for two reasons,
1. Money, Yes there is a since of greed involved. Your making alot of money selling oil as is right now so why hurry? Well to instantly supply the market with the oil would cause the price to drasticly drop. But would only agravate the demand for oil and pushing the demand for it to a much higher level. Still making your product not affordable anymore isn't a good idea.
2. Its physicly impossible to produce the oil at the current demand level anyways.
Is anyone who complains about the cost of gas aware of how much oil is produced everyday? Its mind boggling the ammount used and thats with every piece of equipment working round the clock right now. You could produce more oil but whith what insfrastructure using what equipment? What we have now can't do it and what we need isn't built.
The supply is there but the demand on it has gotten huge.
We can also thank our free maket place. Did you know that there are investment banks going over seas and bidding up the price of oil thus forcing U.S. buyers to bid more to buy? They are making 20$-30$ proffit per barrel which is amazing concidering the ammount sold and traded on the market. We can partialy thank our own housing market colapsing thanks to the massive ammount of bad credit loans handed out over the years.
The average home in the best housing market has not gained or lost any value over the past 3-5 years, homes in other markets have lost alot of value....thats bad. So people start buying into and investing in things earning money like oil futures. Which has a side effect of making it more valuable in a exchange market. So our own faultering economy is making people like investment banks buy into investments that are earning the most money.
We also simply did not bother to build any effective long term mass transit systems or invest into alternet technologies for transport. 100yrs ago when cars were first invented they were powered by almost anything anyone could think of at the time. Electic cars, hybrid gas/electric cars are not new, these things existed 100yrs ago along with steam powered cars that ran on natural gas. Gas won out since it was cheap and avaible and we could do what ever we wanted. Seeing the Autobahn, Eisenhower thought to build a bigger better highway system for Americans. One to be used by anyone, to go anywhere, to connect the nation. Well it worked great till one car families became two then three car families. How did we respond? Well we didn't think to much on alternet ways of moving people from city to city, we just built bigger highways for more cars. The trans-Texas corridor is a great example. You just need only look at Japan or Germany or France or anyone anywhere with a devolped mass transit system you can see our's is way behind. Granted they have thier flaws and drawbacks but think, What if we had a system in place here? I would love to hop on a highspeed train and Zip from say Houston to Dallas at 300mph or from New York to D.C. or Boston or most anywhere. I guess that short range domestic airline flights basicly don't exist in Europe or at least at the level they do here. You have options.

We are also finaly comming to sobbering reality as a country we are now having to share recources with other countries and need options and choices for transport and entergy needs. Well probably not realizing it anyways just feeling the effects and now are seriously looking into alternet solutions. Things that probably won't work are.
Drilling domesticly for oil. It could work for a while provided we have 20 years to wait for the system of finding, tapping, drilling, transporting and then refining the oil to be built. Everything we have right now to find oil is currently being used in searching for oil and we don't even have enough engineers trained to work them. You know long it took to build the Alaskan pipeline right? Well we would need to build another one that would be even bigger right next to it. Right now refineries in Southeast Texas are spending several billion dollars and taking several years to complete to expand thier refining capacity. Thats great news but they are doing the expansion to just to catch up with the ammount of oil being produced NOW.

Ethanol from plants. Its a good idea on paper, a renewable fuel source grown domesticly. But did we actualy have to use the plants we need for food as the fuel source? Did the person who came up with the idea stop and think, "Wow this is a great idea, I wonder how many plants and acres would be needed to support a country and can this be done with any other plant than ones we eat?" Now there is a small company that won an award for making ethanol from plant sources but they came up with a way to do it using praticaly any plant you can think of. Plants that can grow most anywhere and we actualy try to get rid of. Why didn't anyone else think of that?

Tapping into the U.S. oil reserve. I hear this ALOT "Why don't we just tap into the oil reserves?" "We have oil in the ground in salt domes." "We have 20 years worth of oil." This is a bandaid fix. I remember 10-15 years ago if gas prices jumped 5-10 cents a gallon people would freak out and demand tapping into the reserver to realive pressure in the market. People are right, we have alot of oil in reserve. Just one salt dome has enough room for about 1,000 Yankey stadiums to fit neatly inside with room left over. If you think about it the U.S. started the reserve back when OPEC cut the supply so the nation would not face a crisis in the event supply was suddenly cut off again. We placed roughly 70,000 barrels a day into the reserve every day untill about two months ago. We stopped by an act of congress stating it was driving up prices to keep feeding the reserve with cost of oil constanly on the rise. So we placed roughly 70,000 barrels of oil in reserve a day for about 30 years. Thats alot of oil, untill you think that we consume about 1 million a day now up from 700,000 not to long ago. Reserves are reserves to be used in crisis when we have nothing else. Or at least thats the intention when it was started.

So ya gas prices now are a product of our own doing and are only going to go up. There is good news tho, With prices on the rise devoloping countries will not be able to keep the subsides flowing. Just recently China raised the cost of fuel prices because it getting dammed expensive which reduces the demand for fuel. Other countries will end up doing the same eventualy. If our economy recovers at a decent rate it will slow down the constant buying and selling of oil futures since other investing opotunites will be there. A quicker way would probably be stopping investment banks and the likes from going over seas and bidding up the price of oil.



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Reply #60 Top
I have read and heard on alot of new reports that they predict the prices will get to around $4.35 or so then they will drop the prices to back to like $3.50 and everyone will think there getting a big break and not care about paying those prices.
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Yep, that's how you manipulate the public. First you take out all the private gas stations so you control the retail prices, then you play ping pong with oil futures to raise the price of gas, even though the gas they are selling was purchased at a much lower price before the increase. Then you blame it on suply and demand even if it did happen in 30 days, because after all you don't want people focussing on speculators right now. Then, you tet the price drop a bit to make people happy for a while. After all, the oil business has netted 5 to 8 trillion dollars more. Once things have cooled off, you they will start the process all over again.

Once a scam has proven to works well, the next time it will go even bigger. After all, they are playing with your money now!

Reply #61 Top
Gas is actually dropping back down before it even hit $4.00 a gallon here in central kansas...

Our gas is already back down to $3.52 a gallon.
Reply #62 Top
Gas is actually dropping back down before it even hit $4.00 a gallon here in central kansas...Our gas is already back down to $3.52 a gallon.
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That would be ethinol mix that is bringing the price down
Reply #63 Top
Our gas is already back down to $3.52 a gallon.
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Enjoy!
Reply #64 Top
Hardly, the ethanol actually costs $12-15 a gallon. :)
Reply #65 Top
Want to be more disgusted yet?

Air Cars

This isn't a new idea, I've been following this company (MDI) long before the gas crisis hit. All of our problems could easily be resolved (or at the least, greatly relieved) if our government funded such a project, lord knows that will never happen though. Hard to fill your pockets using air.

I implore everyone to bombard their local representatives to encourage congress to invest in this project, we all know the oil companies won't be.
Reply #66 Top
Personally, I just wanna win the lottery and buy a Tesla - Just stick photovoltaics on my land, take the top down, and blast "It's not easy being Green" on the CD player - {G}

Although, barring a full electric, the BBC had an interesting story about doing hybrid electrics a step better and developing diesel electric motors, which strikes me as being an awfully nice combo given some of the ways a diesel engine is simpler than gasoline anyway, and the better fuel efficiency - combine that with bio-diesel and get some *serious* mpg, without tossing out the current infrastructure.

It would be *nicer* to skip straight to electric, but if you can't diesel-electric might be a less painful intermediate step than setting up a hydrogen fuel infrastructure.

Jonnan

Reply #67 Top
Hardly, the ethanol actually costs $12-15 a gallon.
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so your saying that ethanol based gas is selling for $12 at the pump?

My statement is that the gas he is refering to as costing less is the ethonal based gas which is less expencive than regular gas
Reply #68 Top
i dunno I saw a biodiesel pump in the middle of Seattle that was .75 over normal gas prices

Reply #69 Top
And if I understand it correctly, the 10% ethanol mixed gas you buy might make it a little cheaper per gallon, but lowers your fuel efficiency as well. Doesn't seem like a good trade to me.
Reply #70 Top
Two weeks ago in Boulder Colorado thier Biodesiel was 5.99 and their unleaded gas was 3.86.

If we mass produced Ethanol, guess what! Food prices would skyrocket worldwide. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't think that's a good plan. That and Ethanol is not much better in price or polution.

The gas prices in Idaho peaked at 4.08 in July and still have never gone down! Their excuse is that they have to "get rid of the expensive gas before they drop the price." That's BS! They raised it every single day that oil went up, but going down they can't do.
Reply #71 Top
I presume the benefit to biodoesel is the same as the benefit to diesel - the better gas mileage - my ex-roommate used to have a diesel rabbit that got 50 miles to the gallon. Great when diesel was cheaper than gas, and well worth the premium even now.

Jonnan
Reply #72 Top
Haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this... but here's my take on the situation.

Cars are finally being developed AND built that use less gas. So it's easy to see this technology will go further and further requiring less and less gas for the same mileage. So the oil companies are getting ready for that day so that even though you are using one onehundreth of the gas you used to to fuel your car, you are still paying the same price you did when you owned a gas guzzling SUV.

Just my opinion...

FM
Reply #73 Top
You pay for it in taxes. Government subsidies pay the rest. It's also what resulted in the above average spike in food prices. Corn in particular went through the roof. The actual cost to the economy vastly outstrips the production costs, which are $12-15 a gallon. :)

Subsidizing it to hide the cost doesn't change anything, it just hides it. Ethanol mixtures are costing us a fucking fortune.
Reply #74 Top
What we really need a large, inexhaustible supply of cheap or free energy (ie. electricity)

Maybe it can be done with fusion reactors, if we can find a cheap way to make antimatter, I don't know.

until this happens, we as developed peoples are basically living paycheck to paycheck.

Notes:
1. Oil prices are set by the free market.
2. The government has made far more off of taxing gasoline than oil companies have ever made.
3. You can't get a net gain of usable energy from water or air.
4. Ethanol, whether it be from corn, sugar beets, or hemp, is not a part of the solution in America.
Reply #75 Top
Oil prices are set by the free market
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Maybe oil futures prices are, but the market is dominated by OPEC (a cartel). Crude oil prices are also significantly influenced by government actions, such as the maintainence of the US strategic oil reserve. Most major non-OPEC producers are also government controlled and/or owned.

The government has made far more off of taxing gasoline than oil companies have ever made
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Specifics and evidence, please. This is certainly true of Saudi Arabia, but I sincerely doubt the same can be said of the US.

What we really need a large, inexhaustible supply of cheap or free energy
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I agree, but I acknowledge that anything like this would be a *highly disruptive* technology. The current geopolitical system is based on oil production and distribution. If a serious competitor, especially a "cheap and clean" one, came along suddenly, well, things could get weird pretty quickly.

As for energy dreams that might come true, I'm wishing for some radical advances in battery technology. The early steps should help with the car stuff, but what I really want is a mega-battery that can survive having a lightning bolt routed through it and come out holding a worthwhile chunk of the bolt in storage. Screw the wind farms; a tech like that would make Florida the next Saudi Arabia.